International Hockey Trending

[Xokkeu]

Conversely look at basketball. It used to be Argentina. Spain. Germany. Serbia. All had at least one elite player. US was still the best but maybe could lose gold like they did in 2004. Now USA is still the best but other than Porzingis there are no new elite international players. So USA has like a 99% chance to win gold.

 

[kabidjan18]

Conversely look at basketball. It used to be Argentina. Spain. Germany. Serbia. All had at least one elite player. US was still the best but maybe could lose gold like they did in 2004. Now USA is still the best but other than Porzingis there are no new elite international players. So USA has like a 99% chance to win gold.

Again. See how all your comparisons are comparing back to one nation?

I'll put this in other terms. If the US has their army. And we are each our own country with our armies. Technology progresses quickly for us because we are buying arms or reinventing arms while it slows for the US because they are doing R&D for new arms. Kabidjania, Snowsiia, and all us countries each get a battalion of high quality tanks. Xokkeuia gets say one tank and idk, upgrades to the standard firearm. We all improved with respect to objectivity, and we all improved in respect to the US, but you have fallen behind and become less competitive if you fight us. A country like Italy or Hungary to give extremely obvious and comprehendable examples may be improving in respect to it's own past but still does not become any more competitive with respect to other nations it might play.

 

[Confucius]

You're still just comparing them to Canada, and not to each others..
I do understand your point of view, and other posters also.

But you'r sample really doesnt have real life point of view.. If some team would really improve their NHL players, then i would understand.
But the amounts doesnt vary so much.. What does change is quality of the players.

Etc: Sweden has had elite defense for a long time.. Now, that they havent brought a "elite" forwards.. Do they still rise?

Russia has elite offense, but below avarage defense.. If they get better defenders, before Ovi, Malkin retire. Wouldnt they rise?

Russia may rise once Malkin and Ovi retire, have either ever had a good international tournament after Jr.?

 

[Xokkeu]

Again. See how all your comparisons are comparing back to one nation?

I'll put this in other terms. If the US has their army. And we are each our own country with our armies. Technology progresses quickly for us because we are buying arms or reinventing arms while it slows for the US because they are doing R&D for new arms. Kabidjania, Snowsiia, and all us countries each get a battalion of high quality tanks. Xokkeuia gets say one tank and idk, upgrades to the standard firearm. We all improved with respect to objectivity, and we all improved in respect to the US, but you have fallen behind and become less competitive if you fight us. A country like Italy or Hungary to give extremely obvious and comprehendable examples may be improving in respect to it's own past but still does not become any more competitive with respect to other nations it might play.

I have no idea what this means

 

[kabidjan18]

I have no idea what this means

Figures, have tried restating it multiple times, most people got it the first time, a new analogy was a long shot.

 

[Lepardi]

Of course the reason we compare to Canada is Canada is the best. At current they basically have a 99% chance of winning.

Not even close. 50 percent is closer to the truth.

Conversely look at basketball. It used to be Argentina. Spain. Germany. Serbia. All had at least one elite player. US was still the best but maybe could lose gold like they did in 2004. Now USA is still the best but other than Porzingis there are no new elite international players. So USA has like a 99% chance to win gold.

I googled "best NBA players 2016". This list came up:
http://www.si.com/nba/top-100-nba-players-2016?page=5&devicetype=default

If I counted right, there are 45 US players in the top-50,

Then I found a ranking of best NHL players right now:
http://www.tsn.ca/crosby-tops-tsn-top-50-players-poll-1.581381

I counted 29 Canadians in the top-50.

As a high-scoring game basketball is also a sport where it's harder to pull off upsets than it is in hockey. And yet you still think that both US basketball and Canada hockey have a 99 percent chance of winning. That makes absolutely positively no sense at all.

 

[Xokkeu]

Not even close. 50 percent is closer to the truth.



I googled "best NBA players 2016". This list came up:
http://www.si.com/nba/top-100-nba-players-2016?page=5&devicetype=default

If I counted right, there are 45 US players in the top-50,

Then I found a ranking of best NHL players right now:
http://www.tsn.ca/crosby-tops-tsn-top-50-players-poll-1.581381

I counted 29 Canadians in the top-50.

As a high-scoring game basketball is also a sport where it's harder to pull off upsets than it is in hockey. And yet you still think that both US basketball and Canada hockey have a 99 percent chance of winning. That makes absolutely positively no sense at all.

It's a rhetorical device, not a literally statistical analysis.

 

[Orange Dragon]

Russia may rise once Malkin and Ovi retire, have either ever had a good international tournament after Jr.?

Malkin demolished 2012 IIHF Worlds and was the tournament MVP. Probably the most dominant performance at worlds I've ever seen.

GP G A PTS +-
10 11 8 19 +16

But Ovechkin was never a threat in international competition as far as i know.

 

[Jablkon]

Pushovers compared to what? Compared to who? Compared to each other? Again, you simply can't defend this notion that everyone is rising. I could definitely challenge the statistics of it but that would distract from the real issue.

There is one gold. One silver. One bronze. You're basically comparing every team to Canada and saying "oh well they're all slowly climbing up look at these little ants go!" Most of the games these teams play will not be against Canada, but against each other. That's why their movement can't be calculated against Canada, but against the general movement of the mass. You have 6 of the top 7 teams rising, and none falling. That's absurd. FNP has 5 of the top 7 teams rising, still absurd. There's nowhere to go. If you are country x and you are just got your first top 10 draft pick (which is fairly insignificant in hockey, a depth sport), and another team has gotten 2 or 3 top 10 picks in the last year you are not rising, you are falling relative to them. It's debatable whether or not Czech hockey is rising in context of their own history, certainly they are not what they were in the late 90s early part of the century. However, if Finland is getting stronger and a faster rate, and Russia is getting stronger at a faster rate, their competitiveness level is still falling. International sports is competitive, not regressive. That means these teams will actually play each other, that's the point of having this discussion. So they're not up against a theoretical standard of landmarks, they're up against physical human teams. If my team just generated one Luis Suarez, and every other team (including teams that formerly did not generate Messis and Ronaldos) generated one Messi and one Ronaldo, then it doesn't matter that my Suarez is ,my first Suarez, I'm still falling behind competitively.[/QUOTE]

Thats valid point. Good thing is that czechs are quite dedicated and are able commit a lot to get to NHL. Some guys from junior teams which fought to avoid relegation from first division are in NHL, like Gudas, Palat, Faksa, Sustr etc. Others like Nestrasil somehow managed to make it later and guys like Nosek or Frk might follow their path too. There are another guys trying it through Europe in later stage of their career, like Kempny or Nakladal. Without this individual effort we probably didnt even make a team for this WC.

This was quite an effort and positive sign considering how bad results we had in juniors. However most of these guys appeared to be NHL hard workers, not an elite talent. Its even hard to follow Hejda's or Zidlicky's path now because NHL has been getting so much faster and younger that every extra year in Europe seems to be waste of your career unless you are ok to be third pair D with 800000 wage.

So we still dont produce elite talent and we can get older right now because most of our guys jump into NHL when they are 23-24. Quite late considering what we saw from NA u24.