Proposal: If the Canucks traded Virtanen similarly to how they traded McCann

[Horse McHindu]

If the Canucks traded Virtanen similarly to how they traded McCann

I don't want this thread to misconstrued as, "Hey look guys, here's a Canucks fan panicking because Virtanen is struggling and the OP wants to move him."

As was the case with the McCann deal (i.e. McCann + 2nd for Erik Gudbranson), I'm interested in the idea of moving Virtanen plus a draft pick for a similar player up front.

While it's obviously true that Virtanen still has lots of time to maximize his potential, and that PWF's often take a little while longer to develop, you have to see the other side of the coin as well. Sometimes, high end picks do not pan out, and it's often shrewd for a GM to trade said player while his perceived youth-potential gives him value.

Click to read more...

 

[Jumptheshark]

Arnt you an oiler fan

 

[Nucker101]

Legit shocked that you managed to control your urge to throw the Canucks 2017 1st on the table right away

 

[Horse McHindu]

Arnt you an oiler fan

Nope. Huge fan of McDavid, but I've been a Canucks fan since 1987
Please stay on topic.

 

[Love]

You know what they say: Buy high, sell low.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Legit shocked that you managed to control your urge to throw the Canucks 2017 1st on the table right away

#Older #Wiser.

When I was making those proposals last year, I didn't think the Canucks would finish bottom 3, as they had made the playoffs the previous year. However - I then saw how susceptible the Canucks were to 1-2 key injuries, and how they bombed afterwards.

It's the same thing this year. When the stars and moons are aligned and the Canucks ice an almost-near healthy roster, they're actually not too bad.....and legitimately are a low-end 1st round playoff team. The problem is that it's unrealistic to have 97-100% health for almost an entire 82 game season, and when the Canucks do get hit by injuries, they go from being a low-end playoff team to a lottery team.

So yes - you won't see me making 2017 1st round proposals this year.

But having said all that - if the right deal comes along, or is offered, I'm all ears.

 

[rumrokh]

Where this really breaks down, for me, is "Virtanen plus a draft pick for a similar player up front." Because that's not at all like the McCann deal. That was distinctly for a completely different type of player. If you hope to do a swap like this, you're going to be underwhelmed unless you're interested in a different type of player.

 

[Horse McHindu]

You know what they say: Buy high, sell low.

Don't get me wrong.

I completely understand this line of thought, but it's also possible that Virtanen's value becomes even lower as he ages and definitively proves that he's not going to pan out. Again, I'm not saying that this is going to be the case with Virtanen, but we can't rule it out either.

When the Canucks traded McCann and a 2nd for Gudbranson, Gudbranson is/was also a guy, who while promising, hadn't lived up to lofty expectations.

I'm just wondering if the Canucks can trade Virtanen and (whoever) for a similar type guy (i.e. a 23-24 year old Top 6 forward that still has potential, but hasn't quite met expectations).

 

[Horse McHindu]

Where this really breaks down, for me, is "Virtanen plus a draft pick for a similar player up front."

I agree with this. That's exactly what I had in mind.

Because that's not at all like the McCann deal. That was distinctly for a completely different type of player.

I didn't literally mean that the Canucks should trade for another defenseman. What I meant in terms of 'similar deal', was for a guy that was 23-25 and still had potential to 'break out' (but for whatever reason, hadn't quite lived up to expectations). In that sense, it would be similar to Gudbranson.

"The forward version of Gudbranson." (Under the assumption that Virtanen has similar trade value to what McCann's value was this past summer).

 

[rumrokh]

I agree with this. That's exactly what I had in mind.



I didn't literally mean that the Canucks should trade for another defenseman. What I meant in terms of 'similar deal', was for a guy that was 23-25 and still had potential to 'break out' (but for whatever reason, hadn't quite lived up to expectations). In that sense, it would be similar to Gudbranson.

"The forward version of Gudbranson." (Under the assumption that Virtanen has similar trade value to what McCann's value was this past summer).

So, somewhere in the zone of Spooner, Namestnikov, or Sheahan? Already solid, probably going to cap out at 3rd line duties, but possibly enough skill and room for growth for scoring line duties if the right situation came along.

 

[Horse McHindu]

So, somewhere in the zone of Spooner, Namestnikov, or Sheahan? Already solid, probably going to cap out at 3rd line duties, but possibly enough skill and room for growth for scoring line duties if the right situation came along.

To be honest, I'd be look for something a little more optimistic, but your suggestions do seem quite realistic.

I'm not sure if Buffalo are still shopping Evander Kane, but he's a guy that I had in mind. I know Benning wants to ensure that the lockerroom is filled with character guys, but Kane at his best would fill a huge need. There's also a good chance that the vets in Vancouver really rub off on Kane in a good way.

 

[M2Beezy]

Couple a mid round picks hopefully

 

[JuniorNelson]

Virtanen has been developed (read: ruined) by Canucks. This limits his value. He'll need deprogramming.

The only intriguing asset Benning can play is his picks. Everybody in hockey, by now, knows the Canucks will be a lottery team again. Those are premium picks and it's a lock.

Benning might do Virtanen and a pick (hopefully not the first rounder!) for a first line center. If they had a legit first line center, Canucks could survive Sedin contract. They could demote Henrik or move him to wing but not without a replacement. Horvat and Sutter are not number ones. Problematically, neither is anybody else.

Virtanen and the second round pick for Ryan Nugent-Hopkins? Look for a top line center trapped behind a star. RNH is the only one that I can think of. If Benning can't find such a deal, he shouldn't do small deals with no impact. I think that's the real risk, here.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Virtanen has been developed (read: ruined) by Canucks. This limits his value. He'll need deprogramming.

The only intriguing asset Benning can play is his picks. Everybody in hockey, by now, knows the Canucks will be a lottery team again. Those are premium picks and it's a lock.

Benning might do Virtanen and a pick (hopefully not the first rounder!) for a first line center. If they had a legit first line center, Canucks could survive Sedin contract. They could demote Henrik or move him to wing but not without a replacement. Horvat and Sutter are not number ones. Problematically, neither is anybody else.

Virtanen and the second round pick for Ryan Nugent-Hopkins? Look for a top line center trapped behind a star. RNH is the only one that I can think of. If Benning can't find such a deal, he shouldn't do small deals with no impact. I think that's the real risk, here.

RNH is worth Horvat and the 2nd. Not Virtanen. Nice try though.

 

[rumrokh]

To be honest, I'd be look for something a little more optimistic, but your suggestions do seem quite realistic.

I'm not sure if Buffalo are still shopping Evander Kane, but he's a guy that I had in mind. I know Benning wants to ensure that the lockerroom is filled with character guys, but Kane at his best would fill a huge need. There's also a good chance that the vets in Vancouver really rub off on Kane in a good way.

Yea, the list of forwards who fit your age and haven't-broken-out criteria and have higher upside/impact might honestly begin and end with Kane. I might be forgetting a couple guys, but you're looking at a discouragingly small segment of the league. A trade like that might work out just fine, but it seems to me that your market is prohibitive.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

To be honest, I'd be look for something a little more optimistic, but your suggestions do seem quite realistic.

I'm not sure if Buffalo are still shopping Evander Kane, but he's a guy that I had in mind. I know Benning wants to ensure that the lockerroom is filled with character guys, but Kane at his best would fill a huge need. There's also a good chance that the vets in Vancouver really rub off on Kane in a good way.

If you want more theoretical upside, I think you probably have to be willing to assume more risk than a Spooner or a Namestnikov....more like a Dal Colle or Nichushkin (before he bolted).

Regardless, good on you for being realistic.

 

[go comets]

Canucks would be better off sending Virtanen to the AHL till he gets on track. Willie D is clueless..

 

[NYVanfan]

Virtanen and Edler for RNH?

realistically they should just send him down
sell everyone we can who's over 25 by the deadline and hopefully luck out for #1 OA and load up like the Leafs did at the draft
(though top line likely here for the duration)

 

[Kamiccolo]

From the Leafs if you guys want to shuffle some deck chairs the Leafs will move Rychel, Gauthier, Froese, maybe some draft picks in a package for him. Cannucks get some bottom 6 players with size, and the Leafs hope Virtanen can become an NHLer while hoping our coaches can help him reach his potential.

Most likely a loss for the Leafs here as I don't think Virtanen is in the NHL in 2 years, but they get rid of some contracts for some guys who will top out as third liners.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Virtanen and the second round pick for Ryan Nugent-Hopkins?

I'd be interested in that. Horvat, RNH, and Sutter as your centers long term isn't too shabby.

It would likely cost us more than Virtanen and a 2nd rounder, but something along these lines would be of interest to me.

If you acquire RNH, then it possibly opens the doors for the Canucks moving the twins for picks/prospects.

 

[Nuckles]

Virtanen and Edler for RNH?

realistically they should just send him down
sell everyone we can who's over 25 by the deadline and hopefully luck out for #1 OA and load up like the Leafs did at the draft
(though top line likely here for the duration)

Edler is worth more than RNH.

 

[Rebuilt]

Canucks would be better off sending Virtanen to the AHL till he gets on track. Willie D is clueless..

Yes, now that would make sense wouldnt it?

But NO..................Jim Benning is bound and determined to make sure his EGO is not scathed by ignoring Nylander and Ehlers to choose this 'hometown boy'.

Benning will not only FORCE Virtanen into the NHL, he will divorce his wife and MARRY Jake the Snake just so he can show that he made the right choice at the draft.

He will sell off all his holdings, place as many bribes as he can, feign enthusiasm for his beloved pick...........rather than just admit he F@#$ed up , reset the clock, and develop Virtanen properly.

He should have been in Calgary last year and he should be in Utica now. His problem has always been his IQ and he needs to learn that in a safe environment where he can handle the changes.

They are going to mishandle the guy the way the Oilers did Yakupov.

 

[JuniorNelson]

I'd be interested in that. Horvat, RNH, and Sutter as your centers long term isn't too shabby.

It would likely cost us more than Virtanen and a 2nd rounder, but something along these lines would be of interest to me.

If you acquire RNH, then it possibly opens the doors for the Canucks moving the twins for picks/prospects.

The actual cost is difficult to guess. The GMs know each other. Anything could happen, especially if Benning goes all in.

I think Canucks will be crazy desperate before long. Benning may want to save the season at any cost. Then somebody will wring the value out of him. It will be very expensive, if even possible. I doubt it, outside of speculation. Why bail out a Western team if you are the Oilers? Who else has a center?

Canucks may approach it as a scoring issue. They might chase a high scoring winger? Henrik is a super set up man and would really benefit from two speed demons on his wing. Could they find someone better than Virtanen? Sure, but how would that guy do on a poo team? Canucks will simply try to keep the Sedins together and hope the newcomer can get them going. That'll take the team ten games to realize it's not working.

Canucks are victims of thinking. Aquilini thinks the Sedins can propel a low scoring team into the playoffs, if the team is strong defensively and doesn't give up any goals. This is just wrong. They have to rethink their whole scheme and outlook. Aquilini has never demonstrated that type of agility.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

any interest in King for virtanen and a 3rd?

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Yes, now that would make sense wouldnt it?

But NO..................Jim Benning is bound and determined to make sure his EGO is not scathed by ignoring Nylander and Ehlers to choose this 'hometown boy'.

Benning will not only FORCE Virtanen into the NHL, he will divorce his wife and MARRY Jake the Snake just so he can show that he made the right choice at the draft.

He will sell off all his holdings, place as many bribes as he can, feign enthusiasm for his beloved pick...........rather than just admit he F@#$ed up , reset the clock, and develop Virtanen properly.

He should have been in Calgary last year and he should be in Utica now. His problem has always been his IQ and he needs to learn that in a safe environment where he can handle the changes.

They are going to mishandle the guy the way the Oilers did Yakupov.

You know that defensively speaking he has been one of our best forwards this year so far, he was last year to, someone with a low hockey IQ usually can't say that, but I'm arguing with someone who has hated him since we drafted him so maybe this is pointless.

I do agree with you that he should be in the AHL though, he needs that to develop his offensive game.