- Dec 28, 2015
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If Anderson, Coffey, Fuhr, Gretzky, Kurri, Lowe and Messier had played together their entire careers in Edmonton, how many Stanley Cups they would have won?
If the 80's Oilers didn't get dismantled
- Thread starter Danny46
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Staniowski
Registered User
...and Tikkanen, MacTavish, Smith, etc.
I think they could've won 8 Cups, possibly more....possibly even a few more.
A lot of super talent....and few other strong teams.
I think they could've won 8 Cups, possibly more....possibly even a few more.
A lot of super talent....and few other strong teams.
- Dec 28, 2015
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I only said the other names because they were the nucleus and the guys with the numbers retired...
Staniowski
Registered User
Yeah, I know.....but they really had a lot of good players....Steve Smith, for example, was an excellent defenseman.
Staniowski
Registered User
And I suppose history is changed, so the Suter hit on Gretzky doesn't happen.....
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The other interesting thing would be the coming defensive age - the late '80s and especially into the '90s, there were more and more teams playing defense. For example, the '93 Habs won playing trap-type defense.
How would the Oilers have played against stronger defensive teams?
Or would the Oilers have changed - in some way - the trajectory of defensive hockey?
-----------------------------
The other interesting thing would be the coming defensive age - the late '80s and especially into the '90s, there were more and more teams playing defense. For example, the '93 Habs won playing trap-type defense.
How would the Oilers have played against stronger defensive teams?
Or would the Oilers have changed - in some way - the trajectory of defensive hockey?
NigerianNightmare
Lürssen > Feadship
If they didn't get dismantled, I'd love to see them in 1991 and 92 Cup finals vs the Penguins
Big Phil
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- Nov 2, 2003
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A famous question. Here is the best way to analyze this. Let's look at what actually did happen. Cup wins in 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988, 1990. With Gretzky none of that changes, in fact, it improves. I think they win in 1989 too because that is a completely different Oilers team with Gretzky in there. Coffey too. By 1991 Fuhr was back from his suspension and you've got Ranford and him fighting for a #1 spot. That's a good problem to have. I think they win in 1991. The Pens were too green, and faced a weak team in Minnesota. So that is at least 7 Cups for my count, with the only one still being 1986 where they failed. I don't think Calgary ever wins a Cup. I also think Kurri hangs around after 1990 in Edmonton if Gretzky is there. Anderson still puts up good numbers and Messier likely never wins a Hart.
Here is the question, when do the Pens start overtaking them? Do the Pens beat the Oilers in 1992? And if they don't is that extra motivation for the Pens to win in 1993? I think eventually Mario wins his Cups. It is inevitable that the Penguins core does it somewhere, even up until 1996. But when? Is it 1992? Hard to say. Gretzky and Messier would have more miles on them, but they'd still be elite and ultra competitive. Can Mario overcome that? Who knows. But eventually he does, because age and miles catch up to the Oilers eventually.
By 1996, 1997 the Avs/Wings start to take over. The Pens would still be good, and the Oilers I would think would disband by then, but would still have some talent. So at the very least, an Oilers team that never gets broken up does this:
1983 - Cup final
1984 - Cup
1985 - Cup
1986 - 2nd round loss
1987 - Cup
1988 - Cup
1989 - Cup
1990 - Cup
1991 - Cup
1992 - Cup/loss in the Cup final?
1993 - Somewhat start to slow down, but remain competitive
I don't think 5 in a row is out of the question.
Here is the question, when do the Pens start overtaking them? Do the Pens beat the Oilers in 1992? And if they don't is that extra motivation for the Pens to win in 1993? I think eventually Mario wins his Cups. It is inevitable that the Penguins core does it somewhere, even up until 1996. But when? Is it 1992? Hard to say. Gretzky and Messier would have more miles on them, but they'd still be elite and ultra competitive. Can Mario overcome that? Who knows. But eventually he does, because age and miles catch up to the Oilers eventually.
By 1996, 1997 the Avs/Wings start to take over. The Pens would still be good, and the Oilers I would think would disband by then, but would still have some talent. So at the very least, an Oilers team that never gets broken up does this:
1983 - Cup final
1984 - Cup
1985 - Cup
1986 - 2nd round loss
1987 - Cup
1988 - Cup
1989 - Cup
1990 - Cup
1991 - Cup
1992 - Cup/loss in the Cup final?
1993 - Somewhat start to slow down, but remain competitive
I don't think 5 in a row is out of the question.
NigerianNightmare
Lürssen > Feadship
JianYang
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- Sep 29, 2017
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They won the cup in 1990, and I think they were going deep in playoffs right up until 1992 when the biggest peices were gone.
Maybe they'd get bored or things get stale if they stuck together, but based on what they continued to do up until 92, you have to think they would still be an absolute powerhouse.
Maybe they'd get bored or things get stale if they stuck together, but based on what they continued to do up until 92, you have to think they would still be an absolute powerhouse.
JianYang
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The Panther
Registered User
I think Gretzky leaving Edmonton by 1990 or 1991 was unavoidable.
The more interesting question, to me anyway, is what might have happened if the Oilers' 1990 team had stayed together?
- Messier
- Kurri
- Anderson
- Fuhr
(can swap the above two for Damphousse / Richardson)
- Ranford
- Simpson
- Gelinas
- Smith
- Graves
- Tikkanen, etc.
We saw Messier, Graves, Beukeboom, Lowe, MacTavish, Anderson, and Tikkanen go on to win a Cup in 1994 with New York. The Oilers wouldn't have had Brian Leetch, but they'd have had Kurri, Simpson, Smith, Ranford/Fuhr, etc.
The more interesting question, to me anyway, is what might have happened if the Oilers' 1990 team had stayed together?
- Messier
- Kurri
- Anderson
- Fuhr
(can swap the above two for Damphousse / Richardson)
- Ranford
- Simpson
- Gelinas
- Smith
- Graves
- Tikkanen, etc.
We saw Messier, Graves, Beukeboom, Lowe, MacTavish, Anderson, and Tikkanen go on to win a Cup in 1994 with New York. The Oilers wouldn't have had Brian Leetch, but they'd have had Kurri, Simpson, Smith, Ranford/Fuhr, etc.
1 thing to take into account here is Paul Coffey. While guys like Gretzky,Messier,Kurri,Fuhrman, Anderson etc etc were all moved for monetary reasons, Coffey was moved for personal reasons. As early as 1986 the cracks between him and Sather were beginning to show and by 87 Coffey wanted out and got his wish as he didn't wanna be there anymore. The real question is could Steve Smith be that number 1 dman consistently or due to having Fuhr and Ranford do they eventually move 1 out for a young dman.
jigglysquishy
Registered User
That's a fair point.
I think if Gretzky isn't sold the teams maybe only makes it another 2 or 3 years before it all blows up anyways.
If not, they win until the Pens get really good in 92 and 93.
The Panther
Registered User
Yes and no. Coffey was also (in 1986-87) pissed about his salary.
After he signed his new deal with the Oilers in (I think) 1986, his comment to the media was, "Sather screwed me."
At the time, Coffey had just won his second straight Norris, and I think he was making 50% of Ray Bourque's salary.
Nathaniel
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- Oct 18, 2013
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They likely win in 89 but 90 Is where the train ride ends. They are not getting by 91, 92 peak lemieux. That's a dragon nobody can slay...
JianYang
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They'd be a contender in 89. But they'd probably have to go through the flames who were coming off a dominant regular season and a had a stacked team. It would have been a great series, and I don't think there would have been a clear favourite. Calgary was really good.
Vernon, MacInnis, Suter, Mullen, Nieuwendyk, fluery, Gilmour, Roberts, loob etc...
alko
Registered User
Now ignoring financial troubles of the owner.
Was it even possible to hold this team together?
Was it even possible to hold this team together?
Champs 94
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- Mar 25, 2022
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Well according to the naysayers the Oilers won their "6th cup" in 1994 in New York. Of course you'd have to ignore Conn Smythe winning Leetch, leading regular season goal scorer Zubov, All-Star goalie Richter and the dynamic Kovalev (all home-grown Rangers) to make this narrative work.
The Panther
Registered User
In theory, yes. It seems like Calgary would be the favorite in 1989, regardless of Edmonton's strength.
But... Calgary also dominated the NHL and was the favorite in 1988, and got swept.
And in 1989, they were one shot on goal away from elimination at the hands of lowly Vancouver, a .463 club whose leading forward was Petri Skriko.
So... who knows?
vadim sharifijanov
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Fourier
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GMR
Registered User
Except for the Dragonslayer, David Volek. Also, Pittsburgh was fortunate in early rounds in 1991 and 1992. The Oilers comparatively cruised throughout their postseasons. I would favor the Oilers over Pittsburgh, especially since Wayne typically played great against Mario. More so than the other way around.
Hobnobs
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I think they have the posibillity to win 2-3 more cups between 91-94 but after that is where most of the Oilers starts to decline. I dont see them going to the finals in 95 onward with that core. And didnt have much behind because A) being a successful team meant drafting later and B) terrible drafts anyways. 1990 for example with no one reaching the NHL + an invalid pick. The young players coming up wouldve been peeps like Werenka, Geoff Smith, Podein, Van Allen, Leroux, Beranek, Semenov, Tyler Wright and Oliver.
Nathaniel
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