World Cup: if Sweden goes to the final - are they the 2nd best hockey nation?
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Have you watched International hockey? Canada is the #1 by default. No other nation comes close the last decade. If Canada was to lose, it would be a huge upset.
I agree about this thread topic that Sweden is clear cut #2 over last decade.
BlueBaron
Registered User
Sweden is number 2 for now, and their D should be fine for the next decade but they look a lot less scary with King Henrique retired, Zetterberg and the Sedins etc, Sweden may have trouble scoring in the future.
USA should be better than they are but until they do it they are number 3 in my opinion, their D does not scare me.
Russia matches up well with the USA, D is probably worse, #4.
Finland is for sure on the rise but will they get some high end D #5? (seeing a trend here)
#6 everyone else
USA should be better than they are but until they do it they are number 3 in my opinion, their D does not scare me.
Russia matches up well with the USA, D is probably worse, #4.
Finland is for sure on the rise but will they get some high end D #5? (seeing a trend here)
#6 everyone else
Corax
Registered User
- May 1, 2007
- 287
- 7
I am sorry, I will go under ground again. I forgot these are boards for kids. Disregard my comments. Swe is clearly #2, maybe not by talent but team play that brought them to # 5 rankings on IIHF.
And Head to head they have been great against nations like China and Vietnam.
Against Russia they have more loses than wins and against worse team of top 8, Slovakia they have 1 win edge. You are right, clear #2. Go on.
And this is Russia and Slovakia so last 20 years, not Soviets and Czechoslovakia.
And from now on we should never use facts as stats or point systems like IIHF ranking. Most likely half of people here do not understand even what it is as they claim Sweden was #1.
It is not the ranking that IIHF is making before the WCH, it is the official ranking that actually decides if a nation goes to Olympic Games automatically or needs to qualify. It also decides seeding in Olympic Games.
Of course these experts here knew that, just reminding.
But I know this system has obvious flows as Sweden should be #2. Dont understand how or why, but there is alot of experts here that do, so I just shut up. Apparently a team play or something. I will ask IIHF to reconsider ranking and include your expert opinions as we cant have China not playing Olympic Games just because they are ranked low...we should run this through the experts ... or maybe these are only expert on Swe icehockey
And Head to head they have been great against nations like China and Vietnam.
Against Russia they have more loses than wins and against worse team of top 8, Slovakia they have 1 win edge. You are right, clear #2. Go on.
And this is Russia and Slovakia so last 20 years, not Soviets and Czechoslovakia.
And from now on we should never use facts as stats or point systems like IIHF ranking. Most likely half of people here do not understand even what it is as they claim Sweden was #1.
It is not the ranking that IIHF is making before the WCH, it is the official ranking that actually decides if a nation goes to Olympic Games automatically or needs to qualify. It also decides seeding in Olympic Games.
Of course these experts here knew that, just reminding.
But I know this system has obvious flows as Sweden should be #2. Dont understand how or why, but there is alot of experts here that do, so I just shut up. Apparently a team play or something. I will ask IIHF to reconsider ranking and include your expert opinions as we cant have China not playing Olympic Games just because they are ranked low...we should run this through the experts ... or maybe these are only expert on Swe icehockey
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I am sorry, I will go under ground again. I forgot these are boards for kids. Disregard my comments. Swe is clearly #2, maybe not by talent but team play that brought them to # 5 rankings on IIHF.
And Head to head they have been great against nations like China and Vietnam.
Against Russia they have more loses than wins and against worse team of top 8, Slovakia they have 1 win edge. You are right, clear #2. Go on.
And from now on we should never use facts as stats or point systems like IIHF ranking. Most likely half of people here do not understand even what it is as they claim Sweden was #1.
It is not the ranking that IIHF is making before the WCH, it is the official ranking that actually decides if a nation goes to Olympic Games automatically or needs to qualify. It also decides seeding in Olympic Games.
Of course these experts here knew that, just reminding.
But I know this system has obvious flows as Sweden should be #2. Dont understand how or why, but there is alot of experts here that do, so I just shut up. Apparently a team play or something. I will ask IIHF to reconsider ranking and include your expert opinions as we cant have China not playing Olympic Games just because they are ranked low...we should run this through the experts ... or maybe these are only expert on Swe icehockey
So...when was it Slovakia won anything again?
Corax
Registered User
- May 1, 2007
- 287
- 7
they are #8 I believe, so must be some time ago. I think silver in 2012, actualy beating quite stacked team Canada as this was last WCH before Olympics.
But Slovakia had no place in World Cup. It would be 3 loses and home. I like better Team Europe, I am not nationalist. I am a hockey fan
I can also spell it out for you...Slovakia sucks at icehockey and should not play World Cup at all.
The games would be one sided and boring to watch. Slovak so called hockey fans would hope to win and after loss they would complain about the best players ignoring the fact that more than half of the team is barely able to skate.
There you have it, black on white
Chimpradamus
Registered User
Corax, it has already been explained to you, but let's explain it again. Sweden has had maybe 1/25 available NHL players participate in the WHC the last couple of years. A big reason why is nobody liked MÃ¥rts who is as charismatic as a cardboard box.
So their teams have been filled with SEL'ers, KHL'ers and maybe one average NHL'er. The few times they've actually iced a good squad, they've won it or medaled. On the other hand, countries like Canada and Russia - and basically every other big six country - have had a bunch of stars and good NHL'ers in their WHC teams in the last couple of years. They've at least iced their B teams, while Sweden has iced their C or D teams.
IIHF's calculations for their ranking are just as ****ed up as FIFA's joke system btw. The mere fact that the olympic tournament holds the same prestige according to IIHF as the WHC is laughable. But sure, if you think Sweden is #5 in the world, you can have that opinion together with IIHF.
So their teams have been filled with SEL'ers, KHL'ers and maybe one average NHL'er. The few times they've actually iced a good squad, they've won it or medaled. On the other hand, countries like Canada and Russia - and basically every other big six country - have had a bunch of stars and good NHL'ers in their WHC teams in the last couple of years. They've at least iced their B teams, while Sweden has iced their C or D teams.
IIHF's calculations for their ranking are just as ****ed up as FIFA's joke system btw. The mere fact that the olympic tournament holds the same prestige according to IIHF as the WHC is laughable. But sure, if you think Sweden is #5 in the world, you can have that opinion together with IIHF.
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Corax
Registered User
- May 1, 2007
- 287
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Exactly what Russians would say if they were #5. But They are #2, so they dont have to make excuses that any other team could. But yes, Russia has much deeper pool of talent also in KHL... or not...Sweden is #2.
Olympics is best on best, but only ones in 4 years. In Torino Sweden lost to Slovakia last game to have Swiss in QF , in 2010 was eliminated by Slovakia and last OG Sweden play QF against Slovenia in QF. I would rather not compare Sweden to Russia based on that. Especially considering that Sweden lost to Russia 5:0 last time they met at Olympics. And Slovakia actually as well.
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Chimpradamus
Registered User
Only your argument doesn't hold any water. Russia has had some pretty stacked teams for the last couple of WHCs - at forward of course. We have the rosters saved on the internet, so exactly what are you talking about? They're right there!Exactly what Russians would say if they were #5. But They are #2, so they dont have to make excuses that any other team could. But yes, Russia has much deeper pool of talent also in KHL... or not...Sweden is #2.
And what does it matter if Russia can ice 30+ good forwards, when they only have a soon to be retiring Markov on defense as their best? Russia have zero elite defensemen. That's pretty significant. And how many elite two-way forwards do they have?
Now, Sweden might have zero truly elite forwards and goaltenders in some years, but they have some names that can develop into such, at least at forward. And their D can be compared to Canada's for years and years to come and that's kind of crazy.
Corax
Registered User
- May 1, 2007
- 287
- 7
See my previous post, I added how great Sweden played at Olympics against Russia or even Slovakia. It seems that the best that can happen for you is to meet Finland. There is something that makes Finnish South-North great fit to your style.
But I take your argument that Russia takes WCH seriously, on the other hand it is often KHL lines that play best. And also there was the only Gold Slovakia won, was in Sweden against completely stacked Swe team, Lidstrom was Captain I believe.
There is simply something that makes the old fashioned passing game of Eastern Block difficult for Team Sweden.
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they are #8 I believe, so must be some time ago. I think silver in 2012, actualy beating quite stacked team Canada as this was last WCH before Olympics.
But Slovakia had no place in World Cup. It would be 3 loses and home. I like better Team Europe, I am not nationalist. I am a hockey fan
I can also spell it out for you...Slovakia sucks at icehockey and should not play World Cup at all.
The games would be one sided and boring to watch. Slovak so called hockey fans would hope to win and after loss they would complain about the best players ignoring the fact that more than half of the team is barely able to skate.
There you have it, black on white
Yeah I checked wikipedia turns out that Slovakia does have some medals in modern time, in the worlds at least. Champion 2002.
Corax
Registered User
- May 1, 2007
- 287
- 7
Yea, eliminated Sweden I think, in Sweden. Best team Sweden could build at that time. Whole Detroit was there.
But that was when we had All Star power in forwards.
It's all about winning, group matches etc doesn't matter. You don't have to have positive statistics on all other teams to win a tournament. You just have to win the important games. Otherwise it becomes really complicated ...
There are always thousands of excuses for not winning, but fortunately it's winning that matters ...Sweden played Russia's best this tournament and outplayed them thoroughly.
There are also times when Sweden has been playing really well against the best teams but got knocked out.
Like 1996 when we took Canada to double overtime in World Cup and had many chances to win that game. So there are other examples.
Anyway, since Sweden came 2:nd booth this, and last best-on best tournament we can be considered 2:nd best.
Bringing up tournaments like IIHF or SPengler Cup or whatever when B or C-teams are playing isn't interesting...
Corax
Registered User
- May 1, 2007
- 287
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yes, turn it around so it fits. this of course means that USA is at best 5th best....hmmm... maybe...It's all about winning, group matches etc doesn't matter. You don't have to have positive statistics on all other teams to win a tournament. You just have to win the important games. Otherwise it becomes really complicated ...
Sweden played Russia's best this tournament and outplayed them thoroughly.
There are also times when Sweden has been playing really well against the best teams but got knocked out.
Like 1996 when we took Canada to double overtime in World Cup and had many chances to win that game. So there are other examples.
Anyway, since Sweden came 2:nd booth this, and last best-on best tournament we can be considered 2:nd best.
Bringing up tournaments like IIHF or SPengler Cup or whatever when B or C-teams are playing isn't interesting...
They will face canada so yes they are the second best team. All teams in this tournament iced close to their nations best line ups, so if sweden ends up in the final they are second best. But that doesn't mean much because 1st place is so far away skill wise to second place.
Lol no way. Beat in a single game some random tourney? Sure. Challenge for number 1? Not a snowballs chance in hell, I hardly think anyone will for a very very long time. USA will probably have lots of talent, but Canada breaths hockey and has by far the best talent production.
I'm not even sure how you could think the Finns will challenge them, that is downright silly.
Almost certainly, the ONLY guy USA brain?trust woulda chosen off that U23 roster, IF AVAILABLE, woulda been Eichel -- who really didn't have such a good tourney...No way they give Matthews a sniff.
Things'll be MUCH different for Team USA going forward, of course
Conspiracy Theorist
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- Jan 30, 2016
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It already happened in ringette so I think hockey will be next. Canada has been disappointing in the juniors this decade.
SpookyTsuki
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