World Cup: if Sweden goes to the final - are they the 2nd best hockey nation?

[LiveeviL]

As most people around here state, Sweden is #2 regardless of this tournament.

 

[PTmbp13]

This should not go to any rankings. Its not a an international tournament. Its an NHL tourney. Doenst count. Its good hockey and beer i fr ont of the TV. Thats all it is. It doesnt matter at all. It is a NHl tournament with different jerseys saul. Sweden might be no 1 , but they have to play their best to beat Canodo

 

[Corax]

As most people around here state, Sweden is #2 regardless of this tournament.

actually #5, so not even top 3 whatever kids that borrowed fathers comp tell u
http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/championships/world-ranking/mens-world-ranking/2016-ranking

 

[LiveeviL]

actually #5, so not even top 3 whatever kids that borrowed fathers comp tell u

I am obviously not talking about IHHF-ranking, as that is nothing to discuss - it is what it is and would not be something to have a discussion about.

Sweden have been #1 at the ranking and no one think that it holds any true value.

 

[zorz]

They already are even if they don't. USA have the tools to be number 2, but they haven't put it all together so far. And Russia is clear number 4 right now. They have few great players, but the rest is average. So Sweden is 2nd best in hockey now and for the near future.

 

[PTmbp13]

I didn't take the second scenario into account in my rankings. If so, I think US is second, because it has more star players than Sweden.

Canada
US
Sweden/Russia
Finland
Czech

Haha US as no 2. No way. I d sy Sweden is no 1 or 2, Russia and team Europe is no 3-4 in the world.

 

[jfc64]

U.S.A. is no. 2

Your KIDS (+McD & McK) were better than Russia, Sweden and Finland! Anders Lee and Nick Bonino and maybe someone from around Minnesota shoulda joined. INJURIES in SPADES for you guys. Noah Hannifin will be ready soon.

No Tortoise team, (yippe we got Tortorella!), Kessel, Gaudreau, Aston Martin as no. 13 and home ice would have made a difference.

1. Johnny Gaudreau (LW) Team North America 3 2 2 4 1.33 0 2
2. Shayne Gostisbehere (D) Team North America 3 0 4 4 1.33 4 4
3. Auston Matthews (C) Team North America 3 2 1 3 1.00 0 2
4. Ryan McDonagh (D) USA 3 2 0 2 0.67 0 -2
5. Jack Eichel (C) Team North America 3 1 1 2 0.67 0 0
6. Joe Pavelski (C/RW) USA 3 1 1 2 0.67 0 -1
7. Patrick Kane (RW) USA 3 0 2 2 0.67 0 -4
10. T.J. Oshie (RW) USA 3 1 0 1 0.33 0 -2
12. Dylan Larkin (C/LW) Team North America 2 0 1 1 0.50 2 -1
13. Dustin Byfuglien (D) USA 2 0 1 1 0.50 2 -1
14. Zach Parise (LW) USA 3 0 1 1 0.33 4 -2
15. Derek Stepan (C) USA 3 0 1 1 0.33 0 -4
16. Blake Wheeler (RW) USA 3 0 1 1 0.33 0 0
17. James van Riemsdyk (LW) USA 3 0 1 1 0.33 0 -4
18. Ryan Suter (D) USA 3 0 1 1 0.33 0 -2
20. Jack Johnson (D) USA 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 -1
21. Erik Johnson (D) USA 2 0 0 0 0.00 2 -2
22. Kyle Palmieri (RW) USA 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 0
23. David Backes (C/RW) USA 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 -1
24. John Carlson (D) USA 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 -3
26. Seth Jones (D) Team North America 3 0 0 0 0.00 2 -3
29. Max Pacioretty (LW) USA 3 0 0 0 0.00 2 -1


1. Cory Schneider USA 1 0.00 1.000
3. Jonathan Quick USA 2 3.56 .863
4. Ben Bishop USA 1 6.00 .800

 

[PTmbp13]

U.S.A. is no. 2

Look at it like this, a LOT of american players got valuable experience until next tournament, this time in MSG.

Your KIDS (+McD & McK) were better than Russia, Sweden and Finland! Anders Lee and Nick Bonino and maybe someone from around Minnesota shoulda joined. INJURIES in SPADES for you gyus. Noah Hannifin will be ready soon.

No Tortoise team, (yippe we got Tortorella!), Kessel, Gaudreau, Aston Martin as no. 13 and home ice would have made a difference.

1. Johnny Gaudreau (LW) Team North America 3 2 2 4 1.33 0 2
2. Shayne Gostisbehere (D) Team North America 3 0 4 4 1.33 4 4
3. Auston Matthews (C) Team North America 3 2 1 3 1.00 0 2
4. Ryan McDonagh (D) USA 3 2 0 2 0.67 0 -2
5. Jack Eichel (C) Team North America 3 1 1 2 0.67 0 0
6. Joe Pavelski (C/RW) USA 3 1 1 2 0.67 0 -1
7. Patrick Kane (RW) USA 3 0 2 2 0.67 0 -4
10. T.J. Oshie (RW) USA 3 1 0 1 0.33 0 -2
12. Dylan Larkin (C/LW) Team North America 2 0 1 1 0.50 2 -1
13. Dustin Byfuglien (D) USA 2 0 1 1 0.50 2 -1
14. Zach Parise (LW) USA 3 0 1 1 0.33 4 -2
15. Derek Stepan (C) USA 3 0 1 1 0.33 0 -4
16. Blake Wheeler (RW) USA 3 0 1 1 0.33 0 0
17. James van Riemsdyk (LW) USA 3 0 1 1 0.33 0 -4
18. Ryan Suter (D) USA 3 0 1 1 0.33 0 -2
20. Jack Johnson (D) USA 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 -1
21. Erik Johnson (D) USA 2 0 0 0 0.00 2 -2
22. Kyle Palmieri (RW) USA 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 0
23. David Backes (C/RW) USA 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 -1
24. John Carlson (D) USA 2 0 0 0 0.00 0 -3
26. Seth Jones (D) Team North America 3 0 0 0 0.00 2 -3
29. Max Pacioretty (LW) USA 3 0 0 0 0.00 2 -1


1. Cory Schneider USA 1 0.00 1.000
3. Jonathan Quick USA 2 3.56 .863
4. Ben Bishop USA 1 6.00 .800










Shayne Gostisbehere (D) 23 1993-04-20 Pembroke Pines, FL,
Seth Jones (D) 21 1994-10-03 Arlington, TX, USA193 94 RNHL #27 Jacob Trouba (D) 22 1994-02-26 Rochester, MI, USA189 92

Jack Eichel (C) 19 1996-10-28 North Chelmsford, MA, USA188 91
Johnny Gaudreau (LW) 23 1993-08-13 Salem, NJ, USA174 71 L
Dylan Larkin (C/LW) 20 1996-07-30 Waterford Township, MI, USA185
Auston Matthews (C) 19 1997-09-17 San Ramon, CA, USA189 98
J.T. Miller (C/W) 23 1993-03-14 East Palestine, OH, USA186 93

3. Johnny Gaudreau (LW) Calgary Flames 79 30 48 78 0.99 20 4
6. Kyle Okposo (RW) New York Islanders 79 22 42 64 0.81 51 -4
8. Paul Stastny (C) St. Louis Blues 64 10 39 49 0.77 26 3
12. Phil Kessel (RW) Pittsburgh Penguins 82 26 33 59 0.72 18 9
13. Shayne Gostisbehere (D) Philadelphia Flyers 64 17 29 46 0.72 24 8
17. Jack Eichel (C) Buffalo Sabres 81 24 32 56 0.69 22 -16
18. Bobby Ryan (RW/LW) Ottawa Senators 81 22 34 56 0.69 28 -9
19. Alex Galchenyuk (C/LW) Montréal Canadiens 82 30 26 56 0.68 20 -8
29. Kevin Shattenkirk (D) St. Louis Blues 72 14 30 44 0.61 51 -14
30. Justin Faulk (D) Carolina Hurricanes 64 16 21 37 0.58 27 -22
34. Dylan Larkin (C/LW) Detroit Red Wings 80 23 22 45 0.56 34 11
35. Tyler Johnson (C) Tampa Bay Lightning 69 14 24 38 0.55 20 4
39. Nick Foligno (W/C) Columbus Blue Jackets 72 12 25 37 0.51 53 -14
41. Justin Abdelkader (LW/RW) Detroit Red Wings 82 19 23 42 0.51 120 -16

50. Nick Bonino (C) Pittsburgh Penguins 63 9 20 29 0.46 31 13

53. Alex Goligoski (D) Dallas Stars 82 5 32 37 0.45 34 21
54. Anders Lee (C/LW) New York Islanders 80 15 21 36 0.45 51 -2

89. Noah Hanifin (D) Carolina Hurricanes 79 4 18 22 0.28 22 -14

quantity

 

[icebluuu]

1. Canada

2-4. USA, Sweden, Russia.

5-6. Finland, Czech Republic.

That, in my honest and perhaps somewhat boring opinion, where it is at.

 

[Corax]

I am obviously not talking about IHHF-ranking, as that is nothing to discuss - it is what it is and would not be something to have a discussion about.

Sweden have been #1 at the ranking and no one think that it holds any true value.

obviously what ranking are you refering to? yours? thanks for sharing. can borrow the formula?

 

[JFG]

Should we rank nations based on international tournaments or players they produce?

It feels like nation like finland would be favoured by the first one and a nation like usa favoured by the second one. Honestly, I feel like the second one is the best way to rank a nation. National teams are guys playing together for a short stint, in a new coaching system, every once and a while.

Sweden is number 2 on both those types of ranking imo. However it looks like the US are gonna pass us soon regarding star players.

 

[JFG]

obviously what ranking are you refering to? yours? thanks for sharing. can borrow the formula?

No need to retorically act stupid.

 

[Corax]

Sweden is not better than Russia and not sure if they would beat US either in depth of talent or series played best of 7.

 

[gorangers0525]

Sweden's defense>>>>>>>>>>both USA and Russia.

 

[Acallabeth]

They already are even if they don't. USA have the tools to be number 2, but they haven't put it all together so far. And Russia is clear number 4 right now. They have few great players, but the rest is average. So Sweden is 2nd best in hockey now and for the near future.

I understand that you hate Russia, but your little attempt on analysis is pretty weak in the view of team USA just being eliminated from the World Cup with zero points and never actually winning anything.

 

[CherryToke]

I would rank USA 2nd currently in terms of players but management is run by morons so I would go with Sweden.

 

[xxxx]

Haha US as no 2. No way. I d sy Sweden is no 1 or 2, Russia and team Europe is no 3-4 in the world.

Sweden #1? Based on what exactly? It doesn't even have more letters than C.A.N.A.D.A.

 

[Tomas W]

Sweden is not better than Russia and not sure if they would beat US either in depth of talent or series played best of 7.

Not sure if US would win a game against anyone anymore, been so long now...

USA is the second largest hockey nation, I give you that. 4th most successfull only though...

When you think of how many good players the US actually do have produced on the NHL, its strange that they havent been able show better results.

USA did win the World Cup (that was a good result of course) and that famous 1980 OG upset. Not much. OK two silvers also here in the olympics 2002 and 2010, good results too. And 5 other silvers way back too. So not a too bad record if you go with the whole history of hockey.

At the world championships the results been very dissapointing. Last gold in 1960, and after that just a few bronze medals.

 

[Corax]

Not sure if US would win a game against anyone anymore, been so long now...

USA is the second largest hockey nation, I give you that. 4th most successfull only though...

When you think of how many good players the US actually do have produced on the NHL, its strange that they havent been able show better results.

USA did win the World Cup (that was a good result of course) and that famous 1980 OG upset. Not much. OK two silvers also here in the olympics 2002 and 2010, good results too. And 5 other silvers way back too. So not a too bad record if you go with the whole history of hockey.

At the world championships the results been very dissapointing. Last gold in 1960, and after that just a few bronze medals.

US has no tradition of playing IIHF, alway playing uni players or ahl. But if they have sent similar team as for world cup, they would be differently placed.
Torts is an idiot, no players like to play under him. You can not build a team if the base stone is a vulcano.
There was no spirit to,that team. Babs is enforcing players. He is hard but protects team from journalists. Many coaches are tough but stand with players. Torts throws **** on them publicly. To win, there needs to be team and teamspirit. It is not only about stacking the roster like Russians did in the past. They do much better usin KHL teammates blanded with NHL.

 

[Battle Lin]

russia and states have produced better individual players i think...but when they play as a team, yes you probably have to go with sweden

 

[Ben White]

This is an interesting article:

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2013/11/22/5133762/winter-olympics-2014-hockey-rankings-sochi

The only time I've seen Canada NOT being ranked as "best hockey country" actually.

 

[Healthy DiPietro]

actually #5, so not even top 3 whatever kids that borrowed fathers comp tell u
http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/championships/world-ranking/mens-world-ranking/2016-ranking

^ This guy really has it in for us for some reason. Either he's a Finn with a mock account or it's sour grapes from a Slovak jealous of countries with actual teams in this tournament.

Either way, the IIHF ranking is solely based on your placement in the last World Championship - meaningless. I'm sure he knows that too but is just playing stupid. Sweden's been ranked #1 every time we've won the World Championships but that doesn't mean we ever thought we were ahead of Canada.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

I do not think this a IIHF tournament, so it should not give any points there, or shall a all star team also get points?

wth iihf means nothing best on best tournaments mean everything. Thiese are all the best players in the world if you win here it means something. World championships mean very little. Olympics and world cups is all we have.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

russia and states have produced better individual players i think...but when they play as a team, yes you probably have to go with sweden

Who are the great American players other than Patrick Kane? Sweden is right there with US and just above Russia and Findland

 

[NucksRuleYep]

Answer: Yes

/end thread