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World Cup: if Sweden goes to the final - are they the 2nd best hockey nation?

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crowi said:
Ah yes, my posting history really tells how much I "loved" this tournament before - perhaps take a short look at it before making such a bad assumption.
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just because you assumed it was a nosense tournament doesn't mean everybody does. Not at least the actual players that played and are still playing in this tournament. So you can call it all you want sitting on your couch behind on your keyboard. The games and tourney actually mean something to the players. Go look at Ovechkins media interviews today
 
hitmen19 said:
just because you assumed it was a nosense tournament doesn't mean everybody does. Not at least the actual players that played and are still playing in this tournament. So you can call it all you want sitting on your couch behind on your keyboard. The games and tourney actually mean something to the players. Go look at Ovechkins media interviews today
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That's the only saving grace of this tourney. The players feel pride each and every time they have the opportunity to represent their country. I'm not going to diminish their effort by saying the tourney means nothing. It does mean something. I take pride in the Swedish squad. Regardless, I am opposed to the tournament for a number of reasons, most of which have nothing to do with the gimmicks.
 
To me, being 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th best hockey nation is about what players you produce overall, not just in your 23-men roster and how they do in once-every-four-years tournament in 6 games at best.

In terms of what they produce, the US is already #2 imo and will only be strenghtening its position in the upcoming years.
 
Srsly said:
Honestly, as a Canadian I'm beginning to get embarrassed by this preconceived notion that we'll entitled to the claim of number one nation by default. As team USA demonstrated, NHL star power does not make a team the best. Players from the KHL and SEL are professionals as well. Not to mention the fact that the current format separated youth from veterans and as much as I hate to admit it, the USA is pretty strong youth wise while Canada is less of a clear cut winner in that age bracket.
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It's not preconceived nor by default. We have won the last two Olympic tournaments and the last two World Championships. We are #1 not only by reputation, but also for our results.
 
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I rather look at the IIHF rankings, the same way I look at world soccer rankings by nation with FIFA and world basketball rankings with FIBA, respectively.

Specifically about Sweden, the World Cup of Hockey objectively shows that Sweden is another excellent source of prospects for the NHL, especially when this event is an NHL-sponsored event. As for its impact on the IIHF rankings, I don't know, because I did not bother to ask.

Besides, objectively speaking, the Holy Trinity of European Hockey consists of Russia, Finland, and Sweden.
 
Sorey said:
if Sweden reach the final, they have been in consecutive finals in best of best tournaments.

Are they ahead of Russia and USA in rankings?
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I'm sorry to say but this is a stupid thread. A tournament only proves which team was best in that particular tournament. It doesn't prove anything about some vague term like 'best hockey nation'. Why is it so difficult to treat these mini tournaments as what they are (tournaments)?
 
chokei said:
Who cares? These things change from year to year or at least tournament to tournament.

And in relation to population size they're the best to me anyway. I respect it a lot what they do if you consider what they have to work with.
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this, only swedes are happy to be second best :D :D
 
Cogsbreakaway said:
In hockey, Canada is extremely nationalistic.
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Extremely, to the point that we go into a berserker state over it.

Most of the world knows nothing about us. I mean, we've got good maple syrup, but there's not much that distinguishes us.

Hockey is who we are. In every other area of life, we are kind and caring. How we are about hockey isn't reflective of how we are in other areas of our lives. We'll hold the door open for the person behind us, we'll shovel the snow off our neighbours driveway because we're already outside. Generally speaking, most Canadians are very modest and humble.

It really is an oddity how we are towards hockey. It just means so much to us.
 
This tournament doesn't really do much for the Swedes unless they win the Cup. They beat Finland that scored 1 goal the whole tournament, barely defeated Russia and lost to Team Leftovers. If they now beat Team Eurotrash, they are in the Finals. It's not really impressive. Now if they beat Canada (or Russia again, if we make it there somwhow), it will be really good.

Then again, Swedes already have a solid claim for being the 2nd strongest hockey nation:
- A gold and a silver in the last 3 Olympics (only Canada is better);
- A gold and a bronze in the last 5 World Championship (only Russia and Canada are better);
- A gold and 2 silvers in the last 5 U20s (only Finland is better; US and Canada are close; Russia has 5 medals, but no golds);
- 2 silvers in the last 5 U18s (not very good).

Sure, they are only 5th in the IIHF ranking, but pretty close to higher teams, and we at the top in 2013-2014.

Personally, I of course don't think Swedes are 2nd best hockey nation in the world.
 
Acallabeth said:
This tournament doesn't really do much for the Swedes unless they win the Cup. They beat Finland that scored 1 goal the whole tournament, barely defeated Russia and lost to Team Leftovers. If they now beat Team Eurotrash, they are in the Finals. It's not really impressive. Now if they beat Canada (or Russia again, if we make it there somwhow), it will be really good.

Then again, Swedes already have a solid claim for being the 2nd strongest hockey nation:
- A gold and a silver in the last 3 Olympics (only Canada is better);
- A gold and a bronze in the last 5 World Championship (only Russia and Canada are better);
- A gold and 2 silvers in the last 5 U20s (only Finland is better; US and Canada are close; Russia has 5 medals, but no golds);
- 2 silvers in the last 5 U18s (not very good).

Sure, they are only 5th in the IIHF ranking, but pretty close to higher teams, and we at the top in 2013-2014.

Personally, I of course don't think Swedes are 2nd best hockey nation in the world.
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Score wise for sure, but Russia was severely outplayed in that game.

Clearly Canada is the best hockeynation in the world - no matter the outcome of this tournament.

I think a few nations have a claim for second best and among them Sweden. Russia and USA would be the other suspects with Finland closing in and will be there as well within a few years thanks to their amazing prospects coming up.
 
They are even if they lose. Team Europe is not a hockey nation so Sweden is guaranteed the spot as #2 nation in this tournament already. E: though not if Russia advances and Sweden loses...

And they were that even before this tournament, IMO.
 
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This tournament isn't the one to solidify that fact, even if its true. The US is missing players because of team NA.

Anyway, I rank them like this:

Canada

Sweden
Russia/Finland/USA (Finland has a very good medal record at the olympics. Perhaps usually seen as underdogs a bit, but still usually do well.)

Czech
 
As swede, I would give the second spot to USA. Not that I've done any counting but it feels like they produce more star players than Sweden. It would be unfair to hold team USA:s lack of success against them considering their coaching and rooster picking :laugh:

What I'm proud of as a swede is the amount of quality we produce considering how small nation we are and that not the most popular sport.

Canada

USA

Swe - Russia

Finland

Others
 
You really want to debate/discuss this in a hockey forum? :shakehead

First: Swedish NHL players sometimes lacking of motivation to play in world championships have nothing to do with lack of national pride.

Second: You are heavily generalizing.

Cogsbreakaway said:
How am I wrong!?
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Should we rank nations based on international tournaments or players they produce?

It feels like nation like finland would be favoured by the first one and a nation like usa favoured by the second one. Honestly, I feel like the second one is the best way to rank a nation. National teams are guys playing together for a short stint, in a new coaching system, every once and a while.
 
MendelMu said:
Should we rank nations based on international tournaments or players they produce?

It feels like nation like finland would be favoured by the first one and a nation like usa favoured by the second one. Honestly, I feel like the second one is the best way to rank a nation. National teams are guys playing together for a short stint, in a new coaching system, every once and a while.
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I didn't take the second scenario into account in my rankings. If so, I think US is second, because it has more star players than Sweden.

Canada
US
Sweden/Russia
Finland
Czech
 
21 said:
You really want to debate/discuss this in a hockey forum? :shakehead

First: Swedish NHL players sometimes lacking of motivation to play in world championships have nothing to do with lack of national pride.

Second: You are heavily generalizing.
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He's bringing up imigration in GDT posts as well, not sure how admins dont remove some of his posts.
 
it is a real expert forum. while nhl is marketing tournament by pumping up hopes in biggest markets, US and Canada, here we should remember that there are 4 teams in play for the finals.
I would say Team Europe is as strong on paper as Swedes. Still, head to head swe - russia, it is russia that is better in wins.
So I guess this is more like, "out of the crap that pours on you from media, what is your feeling about ranking?" In IIHF ranking Swe is on 5th place, so ...hmm
 
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