If it's not Jack Campbell who should be the Leafs new #1 goalie?

[Visnovsky]

If Winnipeg were to start a proper teardown, Hellebuyck would be perfect.

Gibson would also be great, but only if he came with a notsobig price... I for one would not be too happy to pay a premium for him at this time.

 

[colchar]

Go look at my post in the Shanny, Dubas, Keefe thread. I did an in-depth researched post about the Stanley Cup Winners from 2009 to 2021. Guess what all but 2 Stanley Cup winning teams had in common? A drafted and developed goalie that helped them win a championship. The data speaks for itself. In the cap era. Signing a goalie doesn’t work. It is a bad investment. The only two teams that did it were Chicago with Antti Niemi and Boston with Tim Thomas. Outside of that no other team has won a cup by trading for or signing a goalie outside of their organization in the last 13 years. So what exactly does that tell you? You need your own guy. I’m pretty sure whoever wins the east is going to win the cup and that’s going to extend that streak to 14.

Your analysis is simplistic. Just because teams over a short 12 year period won with a goalie they developed does not mean that it is necessary to do so as there are so many other factors that go into winning a Cup. You cannot isolate winning to the goalie. To do so is silly.

do not care the only thing I care about is that when Campbell has a chance to win a series he can't do it, he chokes

Oh yes, because he is the only reason they didn't win. Nothing to do with any other players on the team.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Your analysis is simplistic. Just because teams over a short 12 year period won with a goalie they developed does not mean that it is necessary to do so as there are so many other factors that go into winning a Cup. You cannot isolate winning to the goalie. To do so is silly.




Oh yes, because he is the only reason they didn't win. Nothing to do with any other players on the team.

I mean Matthews had 9 points, Marner had 8, Nylander had 7, Rielly and Tavaresd had 6

Tavares had a goal taken away by his own team mate in Justin Holl too.

so it would seem to me the big boys did their job.

Campbell had an 897 Save%

he didn't do his job

 

[Fogelhund]

If Winnipeg were to start a proper teardown, Hellebuyck would be perfect.

Gibson would also be great, but only if he came with a notsobig price... I for one would not be too happy to pay a premium for him at this time.

A poster on the Jets forum stated that Friedman has stated that Hellebuyck wants out. I can't find anything to collaborate this at all though. I did find that Hellebuyck doesn't want any part of a rebuild though.

The cost to get him wouldn't be cheap though either.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

A poster on the Jets forum stated that Friedman has stated that Hellebuyck wants out. I can't find anything to collaborate this at all though. I did find that Hellebuyck doesn't want any part of a rebuild though.

The cost to get him wouldn't be cheap though either.

Cheap? no worth it? Hell yeah

 

[Fogelhund]

Cheap? no worth it? Hell yeah buck

Fixed...

 

[francis246]

Your analysis is simplistic. Just because teams over a short 12 year period won with a goalie they developed does not mean that it is necessary to do so as there are so many other factors that go into winning a Cup. You cannot isolate winning to the goalie. To do so is silly.




Oh yes, because he is the only reason they didn't win. Nothing to do with any other players on the team.

I can accept that, but I do think it’s a big piece of the formula especially in the cap era

 

[CuuuJooo]

Um, you do realize that he ain't the only one making big money right?

I do! But his contract is, by far, the hardest to justify.

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

What would a Hellebuyck trade look like. I'd expect Mrazek going the other way along with a first. I'd expect an addition first to the Jets for taking Mrazek. So 2 firsts for Hellebuyck at a minimum. Would you guys do that.

You might be able to swing a Mrazek, Muzzin +pick for Hellebuyck

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Dubas has definitely been a little naive when it comes to being able to keep swinging for small skill home runs and trade the rest to fill needs. The downside to that strategy is if those players aren’t breaking out as impactful players they have little value like Nic Petan. Those who do value, you hesitate to part with.

I think Dubas might be a little stuck in 2014 with the "Market inefficiency" thing when it comes to smaller players. Are they sometimes overlooked and could provide good value? Absolutely....but you can't have more than a couple on your team and expect to go far in the playoffs. That's the part that led him to deal Mason Marchment for Denis Malgin....it seemed like you were trading an AHL'er for a quasi NHL'er....but when Malgin busted...you got nothing. You can't even put him on the 4th line as a hustle and bustle guy. This is the problem with his love affair with smaller guys IMO. If you fail as a scorer..you can't realistically contribute in other ways and you don't play.

Maybe he got overly enamored by the Tyler Johnson type that TB seemed to un-earth and is driven to find the next one. We are still waiting...

 

[Anthrax442]

Title says it all if Jack Campbell isn't back, and it doesn't sound like he will be then who should be the new #1 goalie?

Mrazek

 

[Stephen]

I think Dubas might be a little stuck in 2014 with the "Market inefficiency" thing when it comes to smaller players. Are they sometimes overlooked and could provide good value? Absolutely....but you can't have more than a couple on your team and expect to go far in the playoffs. That's the part that led him to deal Mason Marchment for Denis Malgin....it seemed like you were trading an AHL'er for a quasi NHL'er....but when Malgin busted...you got nothing. You can't even put him on the 4th line as a hustle and bustle guy. This is the problem with his love affair with smaller guys IMO. If you fail as a scorer..you can't realistically contribute in other ways and you don't play.

Maybe he got overly enamored by the Tyler Johnson type that TB seemed to un-earth and is driven to find the next one. We are still waiting...

Yeah, he's definitely spent a lot of time and energy trying to unearth the next Little Guy at various levels of the pro and amateur ranks whether that's Kerfoot, Timashov, Dzierkals, Bracco, Malgin, Petan, Carcone, Abbruzzese, Miettinen, Ovchinnikov, Der-Arguchintsev, Robertson, Miller, Tverberg, Holmberg, Moore, etc. and that's only at forward.

I don't mind the player type in theory at all, but do we need so many and can they do a better job identifying between an AAAA talent vs an actual Kaprizov one of these days?

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Yeah, he's definitely spent a lot of time and energy trying to unearth the next Little Guy at various levels of the pro and amateur ranks whether that's Kerfoot, Timashov, Dzierkals, Bracco, Malgin, Petan, Carcone, Abbruzzese, Miettinen, Ovchinnikov, Der-Arguchintsev, Robertson, Miller, Tverberg, Holmberg, Moore, etc. and that's only at forward.

I don't mind the player type in theory at all, but do we need so many and can they do a better job identifying between an AAAA talent vs an actual Kaprizov one of these days?

What is just as bad is him doing the same smaller guy thing with the D. Sandin in my eyes will never be much more than a 40pt second pp guy playing on the 3rd pair. He is simply too small and slow. He along with the Duszak' and Hollowell's are what Dubas invested in hoping to find the next Torey Krug. There is only one D listed on the Marlies at 6-4 and that's Rubins who I don't think will top out more than 3rd pair. Everyone else is maybe 6ft tops and that is barely even average let alone big. TB has a lot of big guys on D and they had an impact as the series went on...that seems to be the thing with us...we wear down but never wear anyone else down.

 

[Le Cobra]

Gibson will be Andersen all over again. He is not an ELITE goalie but above average. Leafs need one of these as their #1 if not Jack:

1. Jordan Binnington
2. Marc Andre Fleury
3. James Reimer
4. Spencer Knight
5. Joey Daccord

Joseph Woll and the other guy Shallgren have potential to be starters as well.

TBH we can have Carey Price and Brodeur in net, and it wont mean jack (no pun intended) if we dont have the right coaching staff (Trotz and Mitch Korn) to motivate the players and help our goalies improve. We will be stuck in limbo in the first round of the postseason for centuries without the right coaching.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Gibson will be Andersen all over again. He is not an ELITE goalie but above average. Leafs need one of these as their #1 if not Jack:

1. Jordan Binnington
2. Marc Andre Fleury
3. James Reimer
4. Spencer Knight
5. Joey Daccord

Joseph Woll and the other guy Shallgren have potential to be starters as well.

TBH we can have Carey Price and Brodeur in net, and it wont mean jack (no pun intended) if we dont have the right coaching staff (Trotz and Mitch Korn) to motivate the players and help our goalies improve. We will be stuck in limbo in the first round of the postseason for centuries without the right coaching.

James Reimer? Joey Daccord? What the f***?

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Since it seems like Gibson is happy in Anaheim and Anaheim appear to have no interest in moving him I wouldn't be upset if we gave Blackwood a gamble. not sure what NJ would want but seems like they are not on good terms anymore

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Since it seems like Gibson is happy in Anaheim and Anaheim appear to have no interest in moving him I wouldn't be upset if we gave Blackwood a gamble. not sure what NJ would want but seems like they are not on good terms anymore

Where did you hear that

 

[Nylander88]

Since it seems like Gibson is happy in Anaheim and Anaheim appear to have no interest in moving him I wouldn't be upset if we gave Blackwood a gamble. not sure what NJ would want but seems like they are not on good terms anymore

I agree, I'd definitely take a chance on Blackwood. Has shown to be an NHL goalie, is still quite young by goalie standards, big body, and has never really been on a good team to show what he really can do. For sure worth it if the relationship has soured. Especially if we can get them to take Mrazek back the other way

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Where did you hear that

which one about Gibson being happy in ANA or Blackwood on the outs in NJ?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

which one about Gibson being happy in ANA or Blackwood on the outs in NJ?

Gibson being happy because everything I have seen says different

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Gibson being happy because everything I have seen says different

Maybe the headliner I seen just made it seem like he was happy cause the one I just read made it seem like hes not against staying but he wants to win

 

[mydnyte]

Gibson will be Andersen all over again. He is not an ELITE goalie but above average. Leafs need one of these as their #1 if not Jack:

1. Jordan Binnington
2. Marc Andre Fleury
3. James Reimer
4. Spencer Knight
5. Joey Daccord

Joseph Woll and the other guy Shallgren have potential to be starters as well.

TBH we can have Carey Price and Brodeur in net, and it wont mean jack (no pun intended) if we dont have the right coaching staff (Trotz and Mitch Korn) to motivate the players and help our goalies improve. We will be stuck in limbo in the first round of the postseason for centuries without the right coaching.

this is funny, Binnington lost his job then got it back, has had some injuries, and he's about as reliable as a starter now as Matt Murray. i.e. not reliable
Fleury is a 'name' but he's lost the starters job in Pitt, then Vegas, and didnt help much in Minn either
Reimer sucks, always has been nothing more than a 1B goalie, and that's paying him a compliment.
Knight is unproven, and unavailable.
Joey Daccord... what in the world would make us consider a goalie that's worse that Hutch?

 

[613Leafer]

A poster on the Jets forum stated that Friedman has stated that Hellebuyck wants out. I can't find anything to collaborate this at all though. I did find that Hellebuyck doesn't want any part of a rebuild though.

The cost to get him wouldn't be cheap though either.

We've traded for unproven or semi-proven guys with question marks many times over the last ~15-20 years, and have yet to find a bona fide Vezina contending top 5ish goalie who can give you a ton of stability in net for a ~5 year period. Andersen was the closest, but he had a tendency to let in ~5 goals in series deciding games.

If Hellebuyck is available, we should definitely be inquiring, and we should definitely be willing to pony up a hefty price to get him. His playoff stats are great, he's 8th in the league for save % over the last 5 years (minimum 100 games played). He's a legit Vezina calibre guy (won it once, came 2nd and 4th in two other years), is signed for two more years, and is in his prime at 29 years old. Winnipeg also hasn't been the strongest team defensively, so it's not like he was getting his stats padded by the team he played for.

 

[ITM]

If we were kicking tires on Gibson, I think we should do the same with Stolarz.

I don't see the value in acquiring Gibson and his contract. His name should be on a list of the goalies we shouldn't be looking into. Giving up assets to take on that contract? Nutty.

Stolarz on the other hand is 950,000 on the books for one more year. That's our type of asset target.

 

[yubbers]

Husso is the one to go after. It'll cost Willy though.