If it's not Jack Campbell who should be the Leafs new #1 goalie?
- Thread starter LEAFANFORLIFE23
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Why Maple Leafs should think twice about a Murray trade (and why they might do it anyway)
Even though the price on Murray might be friendlier than others on a shrinking list of options, he is three years removed from dependable starts. There is a saying in sports: You get what you pay for.
Dubas liked Campbell at $1.65 million. For $25 million over five years? Not so much.
The GM wants a deal. He craves value.
Campbell and Stanley Cup champion Darcy Kuemper are poised to strike rich, longer-term deals in a competitive free agent market, especially with Edmonton (keen on Campbell), Washington (keen on Kuemper) and Buffalo (cap space to spare) aggressively hunting for saves too.
So, as Elliotte Friedman reported Sunday, Dubas has circled back to the possibility of trading for Matt Murray out of Ottawa.
This is how you try to talk yourself into the idea that Murray is the answer for Toronto’s net:
• Murray wants to be a Leaf. Or, at the very least, he’s willing to be a Leaf.
The Thunder Bay, Ont., native holds a 10-team no-trade list and vetoed a trade to Buffalo during the draft.
“It’s hard,” Sabres GM Kevyn Adams said. “I don’t want to get too much into specifics. The reality is, we worked hard on a deal. But players have the ability when it’s in their contract to make those decisions. And we want players who want to be here. That’s the way we believe, so we move on.”
Unlike, say, Anaheim’s John Gibson, Murray is willing to make the move — a four-hour westbound drive across the 401.
• There is a way to make his cap hit more digestible.
A questionable contract when signed, the Senators are still on the hook for two more seasons of Murray at a $6.25 million cap hit (and $15 million in real dollars).
So bad is the money that Murray went unclaimed on waivers in November. Senators GM Pierre Dorion is willing to retain salary on his third-stringer. Exactly how much is unknown.
Twenty-five per cent retained would bring Murray’s cap hit down to $4.69 million. Fifty per cent retained — which may require a third party — brings the Leafs’ cost to $3.125 million.
(Point of comparison: The Leafs just sacrificed draft position to get out from Petr Mrazek at $3.8 million for the same term.)
• Familiarity breeds confidence.
Both Dubas and head coach Sheldon Keefe worked with Murray when he was a Soo Greyhound about a decade ago. They know the character, and there is a belief that if anyone can summon a bounce-back performance out of the goaltender, it’s them.
Further, Leafs goalie evaluator and developer Jon Elkin — the key voice in the trade to acquire draft pick Dennis Hildeby Friday — goes even further back with the two-time Stanley Cup winner.
Call up the homepage of Elkin’s goalie school, and you’ll be greeted with a photo of Murray in his Penguins kit, tagged with this quote: “I’ve been attending Jon’s camp since I was 10 and still work with him today. He’s taught me sound fundamentals and what it takes to succeed.”
To drill home the argument, here’s an Elkin retweet from February:
For better or worse, this Leafs regime is high on loyalty.
Despite a lack of playoff success, extensions and promotions have been granted to core members of the roster, the coaching staff, and the brass.
If 2022-23 is indeed a last stand, Dubas is going out surrounded by people he trusts.
.........................
While it’s unclear what other potential trade targets — Montreal’s Jake Allen? Minnesota’s Cam Talbot? San Jose’s James Reimer? — might take to acquire, we do like those options better.
57 Years No Cup
New and Improved Username!
- Nov 12, 2007
- 8,819
- 8,359
It's not a whine it's a prediction. And if Murray signs, it will come true.
justashadowof
Registered User
- Aug 15, 2020
- 4,025
- 4,230
"32 Wrong Things You've Heard About Matt Murray"
"Here's Why Matt Murray is the Right Goalie at the Right Time"
"Frenz Stik 2gether: How Another Soo Alum is the Right Choice"
If Murray comes to Toronto, yes there's going to be number of people that are going to be optimistic and hopefully and cheer Murray on from doing good.
While you and couple others will secretly hope he faulters so you can whine and bitch all season and claim you're smarter than everyone here.
No one other than trolls will think Murray is the God to come to Toronto and get shutouts every game and win every trophy including the Rocket (going extreme to prove a point)
Cheers, and go leafs go!
DarkKnight
Professional Amateur
- Jan 17, 2017
- 35,588
- 57,237
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
I recall getting jumped on when a Sens fan posted a video showing all the Ceci blunders and I joked "has Dubas seen this" ??
Can't wait for the second installment featuring Matt Murray. LOL.
Trafalgar Sadge Law
Registered User
- Nov 8, 2007
- 11,688
- 7,248
Leafs fans: how much do you guys believe Soup's 2nd half struggles were due to COVID and how much do you guys believe it was just fatigue and/or mental fortitude down the stretch, due to having heavy workload the first time in his career?
Also one thing I've noticed with Campbell's metrics is that he tends to perform very well against low danger shots and rarely lets in weak goals but poorly against high danger shots and has issues making the big save. Do you guys believe this is a talent issue with the high danger saves (reaction time, weak glove hand/five hole, going down too much in butterfly etc) or if its a systems/playstyle issue (since Mrazek/Andersen seemed to do poorly in this regard too)?
Also one thing I've noticed with Campbell's metrics is that he tends to perform very well against low danger shots and rarely lets in weak goals but poorly against high danger shots and has issues making the big save. Do you guys believe this is a talent issue with the high danger saves (reaction time, weak glove hand/five hole, going down too much in butterfly etc) or if its a systems/playstyle issue (since Mrazek/Andersen seemed to do poorly in this regard too)?
The Masters
Registered User
- Jun 30, 2018
- 4,402
- 6,037
Seems a deal is done once Leafs approve his medicals.
Murray is a Leaf. They better have the best maintenance program for him this season. Call up Alex Mckecknie down the hall
Murray is a Leaf. They better have the best maintenance program for him this season. Call up Alex Mckecknie down the hall
PROUD PAPA
Registered User
- Sep 20, 2021
- 3,051
- 3,481
IMO his 2nd half struggles were between his ears. When he whiffs and looks at his glove in disbelief it gives off a vibe that you as a fan never want to experience. If Oilers sign him and can manage his mental/emotional stability he should do well. Otherwise, you better have a really solid backup.
DarkKnight
Professional Amateur
- Jan 17, 2017
- 35,588
- 57,237
How can we even trade for Murray, I’ve been told it’s premature and irresponsible to speculate until UFA window opens?
Forever wrong.
Forever wrong.
kb
Registered User
- Aug 28, 2009
- 15,356
- 22,019
"Dubas screwed up" prior to UFA opening is what you call speculation?
How about we focus on possible player moves or acquisitions instead of non-stop shots at the GM? Or is that too hard to do?
Clark4Ever
What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
It's hard to say really. The sample size is too small to draw any definitive conclusions.
When he's on his game, he can perform as a top goaltender in the league. However, he never truly recaptured that form since December 2021.
There's also his considerable injury history, which isn't likely to improve as he gets into his 30s.
DarkKnight
Professional Amateur
- Jan 17, 2017
- 35,588
- 57,237
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 83,109
- 62,022
Why Maple Leafs should think twice about a Murray trade (and why they might do it anyway)
Even though the price on Murray might be friendlier than others on a shrinking list of options, he is three years removed from dependable starts. There is a saying in sports: You get what you pay for.www.sportsnet.ca
Dubas liked Campbell at $1.65 million. For $25 million over five years? Not so much.
The GM wants a deal. He craves value.
Campbell and Stanley Cup champion Darcy Kuemper are poised to strike rich, longer-term deals in a competitive free agent market, especially with Edmonton (keen on Campbell), Washington (keen on Kuemper) and Buffalo (cap space to spare) aggressively hunting for saves too.
So, as Elliotte Friedman reported Sunday, Dubas has circled back to the possibility of trading for Matt Murray out of Ottawa.
This is how you try to talk yourself into the idea that Murray is the answer for Toronto’s net:
• Murray wants to be a Leaf. Or, at the very least, he’s willing to be a Leaf.
The Thunder Bay, Ont., native holds a 10-team no-trade list and vetoed a trade to Buffalo during the draft.
“It’s hard,” Sabres GM Kevyn Adams said. “I don’t want to get too much into specifics. The reality is, we worked hard on a deal. But players have the ability when it’s in their contract to make those decisions. And we want players who want to be here. That’s the way we believe, so we move on.”
Unlike, say, Anaheim’s John Gibson, Murray is willing to make the move — a four-hour westbound drive across the 401.
• There is a way to make his cap hit more digestible.
A questionable contract when signed, the Senators are still on the hook for two more seasons of Murray at a $6.25 million cap hit (and $15 million in real dollars).
So bad is the money that Murray went unclaimed on waivers in November. Senators GM Pierre Dorion is willing to retain salary on his third-stringer. Exactly how much is unknown.
Twenty-five per cent retained would bring Murray’s cap hit down to $4.69 million. Fifty per cent retained — which may require a third party — brings the Leafs’ cost to $3.125 million.
(Point of comparison: The Leafs just sacrificed draft position to get out from Petr Mrazek at $3.8 million for the same term.)
• Familiarity breeds confidence.
Both Dubas and head coach Sheldon Keefe worked with Murray when he was a Soo Greyhound about a decade ago. They know the character, and there is a belief that if anyone can summon a bounce-back performance out of the goaltender, it’s them.
Further, Leafs goalie evaluator and developer Jon Elkin — the key voice in the trade to acquire draft pick Dennis Hildeby Friday — goes even further back with the two-time Stanley Cup winner.
Call up the homepage of Elkin’s goalie school, and you’ll be greeted with a photo of Murray in his Penguins kit, tagged with this quote: “I’ve been attending Jon’s camp since I was 10 and still work with him today. He’s taught me sound fundamentals and what it takes to succeed.”
To drill home the argument, here’s an Elkin retweet from February:
For better or worse, this Leafs regime is high on loyalty.
Despite a lack of playoff success, extensions and promotions have been granted to core members of the roster, the coaching staff, and the brass.
If 2022-23 is indeed a last stand, Dubas is going out surrounded by people he trusts.
.........................
While it’s unclear what other potential trade targets — Montreal’s Jake Allen? Minnesota’s Cam Talbot? San Jose’s James Reimer? — might take to acquire, we do like those options better.
I find some of the points in this article to be frustrating to process even though generally agree. The Leafs are a “loyal” organization to the Big 4 vision and the “we can and we will” sound bite about their contracts but not to the average Leaf.
The sheer body count of Leafs who have been shown the exit in trade and UFA walk always in order to the top heavy salary structure work is pretty massive and grows every year until the Tavares contract is finally up. Campbell would be the latest if he were to leave.
What we're hearing: More on Alexander Romanov's game, should Islanders pursue J.T. Miller?
A look at Romanov's game, Semyon Varlamov's status with the Islanders, J.T. Miller as a potential option and more.
Varlamov’s status
Lamoriello reiterated after Day 2 of the draft that he likes the Islanders’ goalie tandem of Ilya Sorokin and Semyon Varlamov, despite the latter’s $5 million salary-cap hit that many have figured could make him a likely trade candidate to free up space to address other needs.
When asked if he still views his goalie tandem as a vital part of the team, Lamoriello said on Friday: “Yes. That’s been my feeling, I’ve said it from Day 1, and I feel that way today.”
It seems unlikely that Varlamov has been dangled to this point, and that the only way he will get moved is if the Islanders absolutely have to. Varlamov does still have a 16-team no-trade clause, so the Islanders’ options even if they were to move him would be limited.
One league source hasn’t closed the door on the Islanders moving the goalie, though, if only because there seems to be a real demand for them. Several teams still don’t know who their opening night starter is going to be, including contenders like Toronto, Edmonton and Washington.
“I’m sure Lou is sitting there going, hey, somebody might just come overpay, knocking on my door for (Varlamov), then I remove cap space and I might be able to get something more for him,” said one league source.
Chief Leaf
Registered User
- Dec 10, 2009
- 516
- 299
Well the Thunder Bay boy in me is kinda hoping now a retained Murray and Blackwood can become the pairing and if they are targets hopefully Dubas can off load other contract we have and make a deal for other players that could also help our depth too.
I guess if worse comes to worse at the trade deadline, we can look to make another bid for a tender, but in reality attaining both of them (TB boys) is not a for sure thing either.
I guess if worse comes to worse at the trade deadline, we can look to make another bid for a tender, but in reality attaining both of them (TB boys) is not a for sure thing either.
High-end teams see plenty of turnover in their complimentary and non-core pieces. It's in no way unique to the Leafs, and the numerous bodies we've simultaneously brought in always seem to be glossed over.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
DarkKnight
Professional Amateur
- Jan 17, 2017
- 35,588
- 57,237
ShaneFalco
Registered User
This is so cringe
For better or worse, this Leafs regime is high on loyalty.
Despite a lack of playoff success, extensions and promotions have been granted to core members of the roster, the coaching staff, and the brass.
For better or worse, this Leafs regime is high on loyalty.
Despite a lack of playoff success, extensions and promotions have been granted to core members of the roster, the coaching staff, and the brass.
DarkKnight
Professional Amateur
- Jan 17, 2017
- 35,588
- 57,237
Another Greyhound, is this the year we win the Memorial Cup?
The Masters
Registered User
- Jun 30, 2018
- 4,402
- 6,037
Everyone know Holland is going to give Campbell what he wants and overpay for him. Good luck to both of them. Leafs cannot pay $5M for campbell. Leafs getting Murray at 3.2M and they keep him healthy is good value.
Trapper
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2013
- 24,660
- 12,830
I don’t care what Dubas does this year. Sign whoever, trade whoever, bleed whatever is left.
As long as it’s his last kick at the can.
Can’t see how this could be supported anymore.
