If it's just Gio and Blackwell are you satisfied?

[Zybalto]

I agree with the last pat of your post, but unfortunately reliable, very good to great goaltending, will be the determining factor. No matter how well our top 4 perform, regardless of how the D plays their best, Muzzin returns to form, Giordano proves to be the solidifying presence. Our bottom 6 outperform expectations, Blackwell rely strengthens the 3rd line - all of it will be thrown into the toilet or won't be possible, if they lose confidence in the goaltending. The team plays different when our goalies can't stop beachballs. It's so simple an analysis that hardcore HF people and talking heads on TV and radio reject it, but it's all going to come down to Jack, Kallgren and Petr. Anyone of the three catches fire and we're in for a great PO. If none of them can or aren't given the chance - then there's going to be a nuclear holocaust in the center of the universe.

Leafs first 30 games (to December 31st):

20-8-2
xGF% ranking: 2nd in the NHL
Shot differential: 10th in the NHL
Goals for: 9th in the NHL
Team save%: 3rd in the NHL

Jan. 1st and onwards (32 games):
19-10-3
xGF% ranking: 3rd in the NHL
Shot differential: 6th in the NHL
Goals for: 2nd in the NHL
Team save%: 28th in the NHL

If anything, our team has been better the 2nd half making the goaltending look even worse.

I do think Campbell can get get back to being great with the rest he's getting but I'm worried about how well he will hold up in a playoff series still.

 

[Carltons Cup]

So, after the dust settles, we in essence got Gio for Dermott and 2 2nd round picks.

To me the forward group is Ok and the D is stronger. Goaltending was the position that needed to be solidified and it didn't happen. Dubas is putting all his eggs in one basket. He's playing with fire,

This deadline was MEH....

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

38 year old dman and bottom 6 plug. Yikes. We will see how far this takes us.

 

[ToDavid]

I think it’s fine. Would not have minded a top 6 LW but I think Blackwell could be an underrated addition. And these type of cheap guys have been Dubas’s money makers in the past.

Rielly-Bushkin
Gio-Brody
Could be a really sick top four.

Do we need goaltending? Yah. But honestly we probably have as much of a chance of Kalgren carrying the team or Campbell bouncing back as we do a rental goalie coming in and saving the season. Like everyone was all over Fleury… Fleury has been dogshit this season.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

38 year old dman and bottom 6 plug. Yikes. We will see how far this takes us.

If the goaltending option wasn't there, the Leafs only really needed a guy like Blackwell for our 4th line. We got a guy like Blackwell for our 4th line, and added a major luxury to an already high end defense to boot. I guess with the Sandin injury the Gio trade makes more sense, especially if Sandin is out into the playoffs.

There weren't any top 6 forwards out there that upgraded Kerfoot/Kase and did not cost a huge amount. Even Garland/Rakell don't move the needle enough; it would have had to be like a Miller/Forsberg/Boeser. That was not happening.

And while most Leafs fans do not follow our prospects or think they are overhyped... Abruzzese, Knies, and Holmberg are all guys who could legitimately factor in. Another longer shot could also be Denis Malgin, but I am not sure if we can sign him at this point without waivers and I doubt the Leafs want to subject him to that (since he was one of the top goal scorers in the NLA as a 24 year old after all).

 

[The Kessel Run]

I want to be more positive, but it feels like we're on track to significant organizational change in the offseason and an eventual blowup of this roster. I know that sounds hyperbolic, but I just don't see how we follow this organizational track after this year. And I have no confidence in our goaltending to go anywhere this season.

 

[lovemyleafs]

Only thing that will be different about this years playoffs is that Leafs will be eliminated before 7 games.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

I like the fact that Dubas didn't mortgage the future (further) by trading picks and Knies/Hirvonen/etc.
He won't say it but he knows this team cannot compete with Tampa/Florida, we'll be out in round 1 again.

 

[2 Slick]

Only thing that will be different about this years playoffs is that Leafs will be eliminated before 7 games.

Yeah, between Mrazek and Campbell, since December 1st, they've had around .870% and 3.5+ GAA

Gonna get lit up like crazy in the first round.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I like the fact that Dubas didn't mortgage the future (further) by trading picks and Knies/Hirvonen/etc.
He won't say it but he knows this team cannot compete with Tampa/Florida, we'll be out in round 1 again.

Then he should be fired.

 

[HockeyVirus]

What's funny to me is the same posters crying over not trading our first for Fleury are the same who cried about the Foligno trade. "We need grit! We need goaltending! Oh no not like that!".

Fleury has been bad this season, bad underlying numbers. Maybe he finds his game with the wild. But what would these same posters reactions be if Fleruy was a non option or meltsdown in an elimination game (He is a career choker himself) after we paid a first?

On paper, we're not the better team of anyone we will play right now. On paper, we were better than Montreal and the blue jackets and arguably the bruins in 2018. If we've learned anything, going all in on this core is not the move. They need to perform and we will win if they do so.

I voted no, but in reality it makes sense. We still got tougher to play against up front and on the backend. If one of our goalies can give us a .915 sv% in the playoffs, how much better would Fleury need to be than that to justify a first?

 

[Advanced stats]

Happy with the deadline.

The Toronto method has always been to open the widest possible window for the playoffs, year after year.
While Florida is going all in, Toronto is trying to build long term sustainability.
And I'm good with that.

What wins playoffs year after year?
Hot goaltending, great special teams, and good depth.
For the first time in a long time, we have great special teams and really really good depth.
As for the goalie thing, by not getting a goalie, Campbell has got to feel the confidence that the leads have in him.
I really believe he bounces back.

 

[Enga Olly]

I think it’s fine. Would not have minded a top 6 LW but I think Blackwell could be an underrated addition. And these type of cheap guys have been Dubas’s money makers in the past.

Rielly-Bushkin
Gio-Brody
Could be a really sick top four.

Do we need goaltending? Yah. But honestly we probably have as much of a chance of Kalgren carrying the team or Campbell bouncing back as we do a rental goalie coming in and saving the season. Like everyone was all over Fleury… Fleury has been dogshit this season.

I agree, there simply wasn't a goalie out there that would help us. MAF? Pass and I'm glad they did

 

[EGL22]

I lost faith in Dubas long ago and he just gave away more futures to be out 10 days after the playoffs begin just like every year since he took over.

The only good thing about this deadline is that it should be Dubas's last and he can go mess up some other team.

 

[ULF_55]

I'd like to see some of the drafted players get a look.
Holmberg, Abruzzesse are both young men.
Tverberg could cook another year.
Torn on Knies, maybe let him stay another year.

Not sure what it would hurt, once they're through their current seasons.

 

[ULF_55]

I think it’s fine. Would not have minded a top 6 LW but I think Blackwell could be an underrated addition. And these type of cheap guys have been Dubas’s money makers in the past.

Rielly-Bushkin
Gio-Brody
Could be a really sick top four.

Do we need goaltending? Yah. But honestly we probably have as much of a chance of Kalgren carrying the team or Campbell bouncing back as we do a rental goalie coming in and saving the season. Like everyone was all over Fleury… Fleury has been dogshit this season.

How many people thought Bunting was going to fit in so well on the top line?

I think they have to try Blackwell with Tavares and Nylander.

 

[JKG33]

What's funny to me is the same posters crying over not trading our first for Fleury are the same who cried about the Foligno trade. "We need grit! We need goaltending! Oh no not like that!".

Fleury has been bad this season, bad underlying numbers. Maybe he finds his game with the wild. But what would these same posters reactions be if Fleruy was a non option or meltsdown in an elimination game (He is a career choker himself) after we paid a first?

On paper, we're not the better team of anyone we will play right now. On paper, we were better than Montreal and the blue jackets and arguably the bruins in 2018. If we've learned anything, going all in on this core is not the move. They need to perform and we will win if they do so.

I voted no, but in reality it makes sense. We still got tougher to play against up front and on the backend. If one of our goalies can give us a .915 sv% in the playoffs, how much better would Fleury need to be than that to justify a first?

Fleury is the reigning Vezina winner that was stuck on a dumpster fire of a team this season. Foligno was only a middle 6 forward on a terrible Columbus team.

Those players/situations are not comparable at all.

 

[nuck]

I am underwhelmed for sure. They supposedly didn't want to spend picks on rentals but they still spent picks on rentals in such a half assed manner it seems more geared to band-aid them through the regular season then to win a playoff round. Goaltending is the biggest question mark and they have basically committed to either Campbell coming back hard or Kallgren finding post season wings. Fleury was dealt for a 2nd unless Minny makes the conference final and he wins at least 4 games so the cost was not prohibitive. Of course Chicago probably doesn't accept exactly the same deal from the Leafs. but It seems like they could have done a lot more. Supposedly they were interested in Motte but a 4th was too much?

But on the other hand there is no way they could have afforded a goalie as good as Campbell's A game and if their top 9 as a group play as well as they have individually managed to in stretches this season they can compete with anyone. The club has a punchers chance if a Jack is back and they stay healthy. No high 5s for the deadline moves, or lack thereof but it isn't like they had no JT and didn't pursue Miller or no Muzzin and didn't take a run at Chychrun. The spending was nuts and this years path out of the division looks an awful lot harder than last season.

 

[tmlms13]

I am underwhelmed for sure. They supposedly didn't want to spend picks on rentals but they still spent picks on rentals in such a half assed manner it seems more geared to band-aid them through the regular season then to win a playoff round. Goaltending is the biggest question mark and they have basically committed to either Campbell coming back hard or Kallgren finding post season wings. Fleury was dealt for a 2nd unless Minny makes the conference final and he wins at least 4 games so the cost was not prohibitive. Of course Chicago probably doesn't accept exactly the same deal from the Leafs. but It seems like they could have done a lot more. Supposedly they were interested in Motte but a 4th was too much?

But on the other hand there is no way they could have afforded a goalie as good as Campbell's A game and if their top 9 as a group play as well as they have individually managed to in stretches this season they can compete with anyone. The club has a punchers chance if a Jack is back and they stay healthy. No high 5s for the deadline moves, or lack thereof but it isn't like they had no JT and didn't pursue Miller or no Muzzin and didn't take a run at Chychrun. The spending was nuts and this years path out of the division looks an awful lot harder than last season.

Incorrect, they said they didn't want to spend a 1st round pick on a rental. And they didn't.

 

[Strangle]

I think you have to be disappointed if "this is it".

To me, Giordano should slot in as a really effective 3rd pair defenceman for us when healthy. Behind Morgan Rielly & Jake Muzzin. With who the Leafs have on their blueline, I think they have to take a "Tampa Approach" to the management of it. Brodie obviously on the right, likely Lyubushkin, and then either Holl or Liljegren.

That being said; before the additions of the last week, I think it's important to consider that the 4 teams in the Atlantic were all somewhat evenly matched. You look at who Florida has added (Giroux, Chiarot, Hagg). You look at who Tampa has added (Hagel, Paul), plus who they might still add with their 1st this year, and you look at who Boston has added (Lindholm), and I cannot help but think that the Leafs have shortchanged themselves.

They still have a 2nd line that has been quite inconsistent. They still have a 3rd line of Engvall-Kampf-Mikheyev, and while those guys have been very good this year, they certainly do not strike me as a "playoff warrior" 3rd line. You look at who stopped Matthews last year -- and yes, Phillip Danault was a huge reason, and I do believe David Kampf could be somewhat equivalent to that -- but let's not forget that line had Brendan Gallagher on it.

They still have a goalie who's reasonably unproven and struggled as of late, and no backup.

Personally, I think they should still be in the market for one more big add. Maybe it's a guy like Max Domi to help improve the 2nd line's consistency, Maybe it's a guy like Lawson Crouse to elevate their size and physicality up front in a meaningful way. Either of those moves would go towards making Kerfoot & Kase 4th line regulars, which to me is REALLY solid depth. Maybe it's smaller scale -- a guy like Austin Watson or Zach Sanford to bring some more physicality up front.

Maybe it's a guy like Damon Severson to upgrade Justin Holl, and give the Leafs 3 really solid pairings with lots of options as to how they can be put together and roles they can play. Maybe it's Marc Andre Fleury or James Reimer to give the Leafs some sort of plan B for goaltending if Campbell falters.

The really frustrating thing for me... is that Jake Muzzin is apparently expected back in about 4 weeks. The Leafs last game is in 6 weeks. To me, it seems silly to not try and take full advantage of his LTIR status and hold him out until the playoffs for him to recover. Knowing our luck, if we do leave space for him to come back, somebody will go down with an LTIR injury anyways making leaving that space pointless.

Don’t get caught up in the hype. This team is good enough to beat anyone. If the Leafs went out and swept the board this deadline, they would have emptied the cupboards of draft picks and prospects.

At this point, the team got embarrassed by Montreal last year, choked as badly as you can choke. I don’t think you can reasonably load up at the deadline like other teams have when you can’t even be sure if the big contributors on this team will even show up once the playoffs start.

This team needs to do this on their own. Dubas remakes the rest of the lineup on a yearly basis. (Goaltending, bottom 6, defense, everything except the core 5). It was put up or shut up LAST YEAR. This year I’m totally okay with making this core earn something on their own. If they do, then maybe you have more faith that emptying the cupboards might have some results. Right now though, how can you have any faith at all that this team has what it takes? They are talented enough, but they have a lot to learn about what it takes to win a 7 game series.

If Tampa doesn’t win, their moves look bad, if Florida doesn’t win, their moves look bad, if the leafs don’t win, they draft and keep developing their prospects and try again.

You don’t win 1 playoff round at the trade deadline. And if you’re trying to, your team was never good enough to win in the first place

 

[ULF_55]

Don’t get caught up in the hype. This team is good enough to beat anyone. If the Leafs went out and swept the board this deadline, they would have emptied the cupboards of draft picks and prospects.

At this point, the team got embarrassed by Montreal last year, choked as badly as you can choke. I don’t think you can reasonably load up at the deadline like other teams have when you can’t even be sure if the big contributors on this team will even show up once the playoffs start.

This team needs to do this on their own. Dubas remakes the rest of the lineup on a yearly basis. (Goaltending, bottom 6, defense, everything except the core 5). It was put up or shut up LAST YEAR. This year I’m totally okay with making this core earn something on their own. If they do, then maybe you have more faith that emptying the cupboards might have some results. Right now though, how can you have any faith at all that this team has what it takes? They are talented enough, but they have a lot to learn about what it takes to win a 7 game series.

If Tampa doesn’t win, their moves look bad, if Florida doesn’t win, their moves look bad, if the leafs don’t win, they draft and keep developing their prospects and try again.

You don’t win 1 playoff round at the trade deadline. And if you’re trying to, your team was never good enough to win in the first place

Hey, we can say right now one of Florida or Tampa didn't win the trade deadline, because one isn't even making the finals.

 

[tmlms13]

I want to repost what I said earlier in this thread to all the goaltending whiners

Tell me what goalies were available that legitimately improved the goaltending situation? Someone who is going to start 75% of the remaining games and 100% of playoff games, put up a .910 & 2.50 . and force JC or PM be sent to the Marlies or the press box. GUARENTEED

When your answer is no one do you really want to spend high draft picks and top prospects on a goalie that MIGHT do that? That have just as big of a chance to be as bad as the current ones and potentially just ride the bench after we paid Picks and Prospects to get him? What's the point?

For all of you who say MAF, we saw the price leaked, prospects, 1st, and needed MAF to waive NMC. And there is still no guarantee he is that much better. Just cause the Wild got him for a conditional 2nd doesn't mean the Leafs would.

The truth is the goaltending trade market sucked, and I'm glad Dubas didn't do something that just got another version of PM and JC. I have more faith in one of them getting back to normal with a better defense. I do think Dubas should have gotten another Top 4 defenseman, Adding Gio + another Top 4 D is a better move imo.

 

[nuck]

Don’t get caught up in the hype. This team is good enough to beat anyone. If the Leafs went out and swept the board this deadline, they would have emptied the cupboards of draft picks and prospects.

At this point, the team got embarrassed by Montreal last year, choked as badly as you can choke. I don’t think you can reasonably load up at the deadline like other teams have when you can’t even be sure if the big contributors on this team will even show up once the playoffs start.

This team needs to do this on their own. Dubas remakes the rest of the lineup on a yearly basis. (Goaltending, bottom 6, defense, everything except the core 5). It was put up or shut up LAST YEAR. This year I’m totally okay with making this core earn something on their own. If they do, then maybe you have more faith that emptying the cupboards might have some results. Right now though, how can you have any faith at all that this team has what it takes? They are talented enough, but they have a lot to learn about what it takes to win a 7 game series.

If Tampa doesn’t win, their moves look bad, if Florida doesn’t win, their moves look bad, if the leafs don’t win, they draft and keep developing their prospects and try again.

You don’t win 1 playoff round at the trade deadline. And if you’re trying to, your team was never good enough to win in the first place

Tampa has two Cups thanks to the trade deadline, or at least the players they chose were given much credit and they went back to the well this season because they felt it works. Its fair to say that making your club better works whether it is using futures or trading roster players but its not a guarantee. All but one club that loaded up will be singing the blues this summer for sure. But neither is waiting and developing prospects while your older roster players decline. JT will be a third liner and Muzzin, Brodie and Spezza will be long gone before the 2022 draft picks have done a thing for the club, if they ever do. The chances of Knies, Abruzzese. Robertson and the two Swedish D all becoming top end NHLers is mathematically almost zero and arguably several are at their peak value today. The team just needs to guess right on who and when.

I do agree with most of what you say. Last years moves at the TDL were mostly bad choices but at least it was a year to spend. This year lets hope our best players are our best players and they get some help with at least one of the Florida teams. They could have improved more, but maybe not all that much and it means nothin if their best guys don't bring their A games every night. Here's hoping the core feels not just the weight of responsibility but maybe the pride of the organization's faith in them too.

 

[Raym11]

There is no way to fix this team until the offseason to be able to compete with Tampa/Carolina/Florida/Colorado at a reliable level.

I think grabbing Gio and seeing how we do was the best possible scenario. Once our goaltending boomed out unexpectedly, and how the East turned out this year, we'd be giving up way too much to do anything now.

Dubas probably gets a run it back season next year before getting fired. He trades Kerfoot+ Nylander this summer looking for D&G and if that fails we're prepping for the next era


I still think we can win a playoff series if Campbell is even average when he comes back. I just dont think this team will keep it together for a run however. If Matthews finally has a standout playoffs, who knows. I want to see Marner/Matthews have elite playoffs even if its 1 or 2 series and the rest of the team breaks down. Lend some confidence to fans that they can finally do it

 

[riffle]

Happy with the deadline.

The Toronto method has always been to open the widest possible window for the playoffs, year after year.
While Florida is going all in, Toronto is trying to build long term sustainability.
And I'm good with that.

What wins playoffs year after year?
Hot goaltending, great special teams, and good depth.
For the first time in a long time, we have great special teams and really really good depth.
As for the goalie thing, by not getting a goalie, Campbell has got to feel the confidence that the leads have in him.
I really believe he bounces back.

But, they did try to get a goalie so that works in reverse for Jack's mental state, unless he's one who likes the chip on his shoulder thing.

Perhaps, that's why Kyle was upset in his presser over the leaked details of the Fleury attempt. That is what he wanted to do. He couldn't get it done and now he has to do damage control with a fragile goaltending situation literally and figuratively.