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If Eric Lindros kept his head up

illpucks

Registered User
May 26, 2011
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And avoided every major hit that harmed him, how good of a player would he have been, and how good of a career would he have had?
 
Probably wouldnt have good as he was :laugh:The only reason you skate with your head down is to help maintain possession of the puck
 
He would have been what he was, but with full seasons, and a few more seasons at that level than he had. Not sure if that gets him into top 5 forward consideration of all time, but among players I've seen in my lifetime he is top 10 as he was. Still don't think he was or would've been quite as good as Crosby overall, and Crosby missed more time in what was looking to be his peak seasons than Lindros did anyway.
 
I honestly think there was an opening for him to achieve or at least come close to achieving a "generational" status. That late 90's early 2000's period was kinda there for the taking, and he would have been right in his prime there.
 
Eh, that's a myth perpetrated by the NHL-media. He couldn't have possibly avoided that hit from Stevens.

It was more the style of play he had, it was bound to catch up to him sooner or later.
 
SatanwasaSlovak said:
Eh, that's a myth perpetrated by the NHL-media. He couldn't have possibly avoided that hit from Stevens.

It was more the style of play he had, it was bound to catch up to him sooner or later.
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I don't think it was. The Stevens hit would have been far from career ending (I honestly think his career for all intents and purposes ended there) if he has his head up. If he had his head up he probably doesn't even get hurt.

That being said, look at the other hits that damaged him. Kasparaitis' hit he was skating with his head down for a few strides before being caught at the blue line. Hal Gill nailed him much of the same way in 2000 similar to the Kaspar hit.

Let's look at it this way, Lindros in 1995 and 1996 was just a beast. He had some nagging injuries that resulted in a small amount of missed time, but not enough that he didn't have elite years. He missed 9 games in 1996, that's it. Sadly enough that would be a season where he played a lot of games only once (2003) playing more at a time when he was a shadow of his former self. But if we take ourselves back to 1996 and assume he has a healthy career then it is really scary to see what sort of career he would have had. I honestly think he's probably the 5th best player of all-time at that pace. Post 1996 was just when he missed insane amounts of time year after year. I can't even remember why he missed 30 games in 1997. Or 20 in 1998 (Kaspar hit was part of it) or another 30 or so in 2000. He was just fragile by then.
 
Why did he miss 23 games in 92–93 and 19 games in 93–94, his first two seasons in the league? He got caught with his head down then too? I have no recollection of that, but I don't know.

Couldn't it also have been that his overall reckless style also brought risk for other type of injuries?

I think there's a hotel room story with Lindros pale and cold in a bathtub and a pretty serious rib injury, in 1999, Keith Jones kind of saving him there according to the story. So apparently there wasn't only his head getting lit.
 
Early in their careers, I doubt that there were many GMs that would take Jagr ahead of Lindros despite Jagr's production.
 
the edler said:
Why did he miss 23 games in 92–93 and 19 games in 93–94, his first two seasons in the league? He got caught with his head down then too? I have no recollection of that, but I don't know.

Couldn't it also have been that his overall reckless style also brought risk for other type of injuries?

I think there's a hotel room story with Lindros pale and cold in a bathtub and a pretty serious rib injury, in 1999, Keith Jones kind of saving him there according to the story. So apparently there wasn't only his head getting lit.
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Knee injuries in first two years.

Kaspairaitis in March 1998 was his first concussion in the NHL... though he did have one in the OHL in 1990 too.

But still, at 25, he had played in over ~400 NHL games at that point, ~75 games for junior and senior national teams, ~130 junior hockey games. From age 15 to 25 overall he played just under 700 total games... with one concussion.

Then he went all of 1998-99 with no problems concussion wise.

But in 1999-00 it spiralled quickly out of control... 4 concussions in the space of 6 months, 2 on pretty dirty hits, and the other 2 on hits that would now very likely be illegal due to primary point of contact:

Wiemer gunning for him all game and eventually getting him head into boards while Lindros was already half down on the ice after avoiding another guy gunning for him!
Darryl Shannon's flying elbow.
Hal Gill's hit which was 100% clean by the rules then.
Scott Steven's hit.


The whole 'head down' thing is majorly overplayed.

You would think he skated around with his head down all the time... when he was actually a very upright skater who surveyed the ice well and generally knew where everyone was on ice...

his problem with his head down pertained to corralling a puck once received, everyone looks down when they receive a puck, but he spent more time looking at it once received that he should have.
 
Appleyard said:
The whole 'head down' thing is majorly overplayed.

You would think he skated around with his head down all the time... when he was actually a very upright skater who surveyed the ice well and generally knew where everyone was on ice...

his problem with his head down pertained to corralling a puck once received, everyone looks down when they receive a puck, but he spent more time looking at it once received that he should have.
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Thanks for the info.

Yeah, that's how I feel too. 'specially the Stevens hit gets overplayed because they had a bit of a rivalry and some people love that phony "slay the villain" narrative. The Kaspar hit wasn't a head shot though but a body check, and there Lindros definitely looked at the puck at his feet for too long.
 
604 said:
Early in their careers, I doubt that there were many GMs that would take Jagr ahead of Lindros despite Jagr's production.
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When Mario retired in '97, Jagr and Lindros were pretty similar in production in the 3 previous seasons, save for arguably Jagr's Mario-influenced 149 points. IMO, Lindros would have been the Best Player at that time given the other things he brought to the table besides offence and his strong playoff run that year. The next season saw another partial season by Lindros and an Art Ross win for Jagr, and a gap in their PPGs. The next year Jagr took his offence to another level, without Mario, that for some, could have been enough to move him ahead of Lindros.

I don't think Lindros would have been as effective if he didn't play with his "head down". He wasn't so offensively gifted that he could produce as well as he did without the physicality aspect, and the injuries that came with it.
 
One way to think about it -- what if the Flyers had a Letang-like defenseman or two, so that Lindros wouldn't have been lugging the puck through the neutral zone in the first place?
 
Considering that the Scott Stevens hit actually didn't end Lindros' career, nor did it even signal the end of his PPG scoring ability in the dead puck era for at least another couple of seasons, I have a follow up question:

What was Lindros doing so dramatically wrong, and different starting in 2002-03 that signaled his statistical decline? What was the missing ingredient? Did his physical skills and speed deteriorate? Did his vision worsen? Or did the "mellowing out" strip the high octane "hate" from his game that exposed his limited playing style?
 
tarheelhockey said:
One way to think about it -- what if the Flyers had a Letang-like defenseman or two, so that Lindros wouldn't have been lugging the puck through the neutral zone in the first place?
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But that zone entry was also signature Lindros.
 
It is to bad Lindros had injuries. Had it not been for injuries, as others have said, you'd be talking about Lindros as a top 5-10 centre of all time and the Flyers may have won the Cup in 2000.
 
Stephen said:
Considering that the Scott Stevens hit actually didn't end Lindros' career, nor did it even signal the end of his PPG scoring ability in the dead puck era for at least another couple of seasons, I have a follow up question:

What was Lindros doing so dramatically wrong, and different starting in 2002-03 that signaled his statistical decline? What was the missing ingredient? Did his physical skills and speed deteriorate? Did his vision worsen? Or did the "mellowing out" strip the high octane "hate" from his game that exposed his limited playing style?
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I watched him regularly with the Rangers. He rarely carried the team up ice--certainly never up the middle--and in the offensive zone he generally kept to the perimeter of the action. He still managed good numbers--a testament to his shooting and passing abilities.

From the horse's own mouth:

I certainly did not play as well during the latter stages of my career. I hated going through the middle. I had huge fears.
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It’s tough going from being so assertive — you never show any cracks — to having an ‘X’ on your back. Players who would have never spoken or taken liberties in the past, it was happening all the time. I had a fear of cutting through the middle. Absolutely. Could I still shoot and pass? I could still score, but it wasn’t the same game.
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http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/hockey/rangers/eric-lindros-concussions-changed-played-nhl-article-1.2531411
 
The Fan Forecaster did a big piece on Lindros, Kariya, Forsberg and Jagr back in 1997 after the Lemieux retirement. Even in Lindros' prime it said his vision and puck skills somewhat lagged behind the other three.
 
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