Speculation: If Bowman is Fired, who replaces him?

[Toews2Bickell]

The 2010 team was definitely Dale's team.

The 2013 and 2015 teams were Bowman's.

mike smith and dale tallon are the ones that brought in like 6 or 7 of the main core pieces that were there for the cup runs...bowman brought in hossa and that was it...there is a reason bowman was never put up for gm of the year, he inherited an amazing core ready to win...just like brisebois

 

[Pez68]

so the team that Stan inherited was Dale and Mike Smith's team then right? those GMs acquired every significant piece of the core other than Hossa (even though Tallon signed him, we all know the story)...Tampa is Yzerman's team despite the fact that he left before they won a cup, Dale and Mike Smith left before the Hawks won a cup...is that the story we're going with here as far as who team is who when a gm leaves before a team wins...

Bowman was with the Hawks that entire time. The Directory of Hockey Operations and Assistant GM probably has some input in building the team, no?

He also completely overhauled the roster after 2010 to get the Hawks two more cup wins. Something Wilson failed to do even once in San Jose. Plenty of teams with an amazing core, never win a cup.

The 2010 team was the work of multiple people. Tallon and Smith included. I have NEVER taken credit away from Tallon and Smith for building the core. I've actually given them credit several times.

How many times do we need to have this conversation?

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Bowman was with the Hawks that entire time. The Directory of Hockey Operations and Assistant GM probably has some input in building the team, no?

He also completely overhauled the roster after 2010 to get the Hawks two more cup wins. Something Wilson failed to do even once in San Jose.

The 2010 team was the work of multiple people. Tallon and Smith included.

How many times do we need to have this conversation?

Brisebois was with Tampa since the beginning of Yzerman's tenure as well...so again for the record, bowman gets all the credits for the cups when he was agm for entire duration of rebuilding that core, acquired hardly any of the main core pieces, but they were his teams, yet yzerman gets credit for all of tampa's success even though brisebois was gm when they actually won...if yzerman gets all the credit for tampa's run then stan hardly deserves the credit he's getting for the work mike smith and dale tallon did to build chicago's core...core pieces brought in by mike smith and dale tallon

toews
kane
keith
seabrook
hjalmmarson
crawford
sharp

bowman

hossa
??

 

[Pez68]

Brisebois was with Tampa since the beginning of Yzerman's tenure as well...so again for the record, bowman gets all the credits for the cups when he was agm for entire duration of rebuilding that core, acquired hardly any of the main core pieces, but it was his team, yet yzerman gets credit for all of tampa's success even though brisebois was gm when they actually won...if yzerman gets all the credit for tampa's run then stan hardly deserves the credit he's getting for the work mike smith and dale tallon did to build chicago's core

Where do you see me NOT giving credit to Tallon and Smith? Stop moving the f***ing goal posts jackass.

Yzerman doesn't get all the credit for Tampa, either. They already had Hedman, Stamkos, and Killorn there when he arrived. Or did you not realize that?

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Brisebois was with Tampa since the beginning of Yzerman's tenure as well...so again for the record, bowman gets all the credits for the cups when he was agm for entire duration of rebuilding that core, acquired hardly any of the main core pieces, but they were his teams, yet yzerman gets credit for all of tampa's success even though brisebois was gm when they actually won...if yzerman gets all the credit for tampa's run then stan hardly deserves the credit he's getting for the work mike smith and dale tallon did to build chicago's core

Bowman and Tallon share credit for 2010, just as Brisebois and Yzerman share credit for the Lightning's probable back to back cups.


How long has Brisebois been with Tampa? Bowman has been with the Hawks FO since Mike Smith was GM.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Where do you see me NOT giving credit to Tallon and Smith? Stop moving the f***ing goal posts jackass.

Yzerman doesn't get all the credit for Tampa, either. They already had Hedman, Stamkos, and Killorn there when he arrived. Or did you not realize that?

you know things are never going too well in a counter argument when resort to throwing insults on an internet forum...grow up a bit, i've always respected your opinions on things enough to leave that stuff out of it

 

[Pez68]

you know things are never going too well in a counter argument when resort to throwing insults on an internet forum...grow up a bit

Stop attributing beliefs to me that I have never possessed and you won't get called a jackass.

You know things aren't going too well in an argument when you start arguing against things the other side never said.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Bowman and Tallon share credit for 2010, just as Brisebois and Yzerman share credit for the Lightning's probable back to back cups.


How long has Brisebois been with Tampa? Bowman has been with the Hawks FO since Mike Smith was GM.

i mean you just said 'everyone knows it's yzerman's team'...again couldn't this same thing be said about tallon/mike smith vs bowman...idk how we even got on this argument, i didn't include yzerman in best gms to not win a cup because they are his teams...just think comparing two gms based on who won more cups can be a flawed way of evaluating executives, rather look at a long track record of success... how many cups has gorton won recently?

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Stop attributing beliefs to me that I have never possessed and you won't get called a jackass.

You know things aren't going too well in an argument when you start arguing against things the other side never said.

if you have nothing else to add to this discussion than doubling down on being a jagoff then move along

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

i mean you just said 'everyone knows it's yzerman's team'...again couldn't this same thing be said about tallon/mike smith vs bowman...idk how we even got on this argument, i didn't include yzerman in best gms to not win a cup because they are his teams...just think comparing two gms based on who won more cups can be a flawed way of evaluating executives, rather look at a long track record of success... how many cups has gorton won recently?

It's different because Tampa hasn't made many changes to their team since Yzerman left and almost their entire team is the same group that lost to the Hawks in 2015.

Stamkos
Hedman
Kucherov
Johnson
Palat
Vasilevsky
Those guys were all on the 2015 team and that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more I'm not thinking of.

 

[Cullksinikers]

The Hawks being involved in a few rumors have me concerned that Stan is operating with confidence he will continue to man the helm, and I'm scared at why he has that confidence. If there was any chance he'd be fired, the team should not be allowed to discuss or execute roster decisions.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

It's different because Tampa hasn't made many changes to their team since Yzerman left and almost their entire team is the same group that lost to the Hawks in 2015.

Stamkos
Hedman
Kucherov
Johnson
Palat
Vasilevsky
Those guys were all on the 2015 team and that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more I'm not thinking of.

the same pieces that tallon and mike smith brought in were the same core pieces that led the 2010, 2013 and 2015 teams to cup wins...if we're just going off a core group of players...bowman brought in hossa which was obvious great but the majority of that core was built by people other than bowman, so to say its yzerman's team for tampa's cups and bowman for chicago's cups doesn't really make much sense

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

the same pieces that tallon and mike smith brought in were the same core pieces that led the 2010, 2013 and 2015 teams to cup wins...if we're just going off a core group of players...bowman brought in hossa which was obvious great but the majority of that core was built by people other than bowman, so to say its yzerman's team for tampa's cups and bowman for chicago's cups doesn't really make much sense

Hossa was what put them over the top, they have zero cups with Havlat instead of Hossa.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Hossa was what put them over the top, they have zero cups with Havlat instead of Hossa.

there is absolutely no way of knowing this though...none...can't just attribute every cup to stan because of this take

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

there is absolutely no way of knowing this though...none...can't just attribute every cup to stan because of this take

Havlat declined quickly after 2009 and would have been a boat anchor of a contract. Hossa was productive until the day he retired.

 

[Pez68]

if you have nothing else to add to this discussion than doubling down on being a jagoff then move along

You're arguing in bad faith and putting words in people's mouths.

i mean you just said 'everyone knows it's yzerman's team'...again couldn't this same thing be said about tallon/mike smith vs bowman...idk how we even got on this argument, i didn't include yzerman in best gms to not win a cup because they are his teams...just think comparing two gms based on who won more cups can be a flawed way of evaluating executives, rather look at a long track record of success... how many cups has gorton won recently?

What "long track record of success" does Joe Sakic have? Colorado looks great right now, but the hardest part of his job is what comes next. Navigating the cap and surrounding their core with the right pieces to contend.

 

[Hawkaholic]

You need the right GM at the right time. Bowman was that, at that time. No, he didnt bring in the core, but was a part of it, but he did bring in the proper supporting cast that I'm not sure Dale could have done.

Such a dumb argument going on. Yzerman is just as responsible for the Lightning as Bowman was for the Hawks.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

You need the right GM at the right time. Bowman was that, at that time. No, he didnt bring in the core, but was a part of it, but he did bring in the proper supporting cast that I'm not sure Dale could have done.

Such a dumb argument going on. Yzerman is just as responsible for the Lightning as Bowman was for the Hawks.

Bowman is more comparable to Brisebois than Yzerman...Brisebois is pushing the right buttons and managing around the cap situation nicely...he's putting the right depth pieces around a core that Yzerman built...Bowman did the same with the Hawks, but Brisebois and Bowman both inherited cores that were ready to win cups, not every GM is afforded that opportunity, so to just discredit GMs because they never won a cup is ridiculous

 

[x Tame Impala]

Hell, even Sakic hasn’t made it past the 2nd round yet and look at how great of a job he’s done building that roster. It’s tough to do and it makes the Hawks 3 in 6 even more impressive and special.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Bowman is more comparable to Brisebois than Yzerman...Brisebois is pushing the right buttons and managing around the cap situation nicely...he's putting the right depth pieces around a core that Yzerman built...Bowman did the same with the Hawks, but Brisebois and Bowman both inherited cores that were ready to win cups, not every GM is afforded that opportunity, so to just discredit GMs because they never won a cup is ridiculous

Not really, because Brisebois hasnt had to tear his team apart because of Yzermans mistakes (like Bowman did with Tallon). It is fair to criticize Wilson for not winning though, as he has had full control for how many years with nothing to show for it. Same with Poile in Nashville.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Not really, because Brisebois hasnt had to tear his team apart because of Yzermans mistakes (like Bowman did with Tallon). It is fair to criticize Wilson for not winning though, as he has had full control for how many years with nothing to show for it. Same with Poile in Nashville.

the basic argument that is being made is that tampa is yzerman's team because he acquired the majority of their core pieces...brisebois was just there right place right time to take over a team ready to win now...the same exact situation played out for bowman, yeah bowman had to retool a bit but he had an elite core that was mostly the work of other gms

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

You need the right GM at the right time. Bowman was that, at that time. No, he didnt bring in the core, but was a part of it, but he did bring in the proper supporting cast that I'm not sure Dale could have done.

Such a dumb argument going on. Yzerman is just as responsible for the Lightning as Bowman was for the Hawks.

Outside of drafting Kane, Toews, Bolland and Hjalmarsson Tallon was a pretty awful GM.

Did he steal Sharp and Versteeg? Yes. Most of his moves were average to bad though.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Outside of drafting Kane, Toews, Bolland and Hjalmarsson Tallon was a pretty awful GM.

Did he steal Sharp and Versteeg? Yes. Most of his moves were average to bad though.

he also got ladd and drafted kruger...to say he was a pretty awful gm during his time during chicago is just false...and this isn't a bring back dale tallon pitch, he had his mistakes and they were problematic, but much of the core pieces from 2010/13/15 teams were not bowman, thats the point being made

 

[Malaka]

Just wanted to remind everyone

Chelios for GM

 

[Drumman44]

Yeah but the Lightning are his team and everyone knows it. He's doing a very good job with Detroit. Their rebuild is very promising even if they're missing that stud C.

Don't discount BriseBois here. He took a great team and pushed them over the hump with some very good moves. Coleman and Goodrow pushed them over the edge last season. Savard looks like he may do the same this season.