What do you think? How could that season end? With Stanley Cup. Individual Trophies. Young Oveckin.
Hypothetical 2004/2005 season. Who wins?
- Thread starter alko
- Start date
Depends on which rulebook we're playing under
Old ones. Before lockout. Because in this alternative universe, there weren't any lockout.
You might want to consider that Clarke made some signings in 2004 that were geared towards making the Flyers better in the pre-lockout world, but blew up horribly in his face
Gurglesons
Registered User
Habs.
Habs have won a cup in every decade without fail, it's destiny. 2004-2005 was the year for the 2000's decade.
Habs have won a cup in every decade without fail, it's destiny. 2004-2005 was the year for the 2000's decade.
quoipourquoi
Goaltender
Buffalo kinda caught fire at the end of 2003-04, going 18-9-5. They of course had a strong 2005-06 and 2006-07, so like Ottawa, there’s probably an opening there for them.
But I’ll throw out a more history-altering answer: Tim Thomas, a .941 goaltender in the AHL in 2003-04, makes it to the NHL one year earlier than he did, and he and Joe Thornton lead the Boston Bruins to the Stanley Cup.
But I’ll throw out a more history-altering answer: Tim Thomas, a .941 goaltender in the AHL in 2003-04, makes it to the NHL one year earlier than he did, and he and Joe Thornton lead the Boston Bruins to the Stanley Cup.
Buffalowing1988
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Just because I'm a homer, I think I'd like Buffalo coming from the East. They'd be rolling:
Hecht-Briere-Dumont
Grier-Drury-Satan
Kotalik-Connolly-Afinogenov
Vanek-Roy-Pominville as a spare third line/plug and play group of youngsters
Mair-Gaustad-Paille
Defense would have been deep as well with something along the lines of:
Lydman-Tallinder
Campbell-McKee
Numminem-Kalinin
Plus a young Miller and Biron in net.
But....all that being said, I would probably take Detroit. Something along the lines of Ottawa vs. Buffalo in the ECF and Detroit vs. Dallas in the WCF would seem likely. Philly was burnt toast by the end of the 03-04 season, Clarke certainly made some moves to try and fix them, but I don't think Hatcher was going to make it much longer regardless of rule changes at that point and it's hard to project Forsberg playing a full season at any point. Clarke's moves in 07 were much more impressive, imo.
Buffalowing1988
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Ah, okay. I wasn't sure how his contract played out, ie if we are considering 03 or 05 contracts. Without Forsberg Philadelphia would be even less notable then.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
Obviously Carolina because they were the best team from 2004 to 2006 
Buffalowing1988
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Obviously Carolina because they were the best team from 2004 to 2006
I do think the Hurricanes were already a contender if that season takes place. Buffalo fans always complain about our own injury bad luck in 06 but it's worth noting that Carolina didn't have Cole, arguably their 3rd best forward and a ppg player that season, for pretty much the entirety of the playoffs. If Carolina got off to a hot start in 04, they likely would have made similar deadline deals. I liked that squad a lot, except for when they beat us, of course.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
I'd like to think they'd have been in the mix, but probably not quite to the extent of 2006. The team Rutherford built was a great fit for the new style of the league, especially the group of defensemen he put together. Without the rule changes there are probably a lot of decisions made differently.
But yeah, they were building around Selke-level Brind'Amour and a fast-rising Eric Staal. Cole was peaking, maybe Jeff O'Neill doesn't fall off the radar. They should have been at least on OK team for that season. They played 25 overtime games in 2004, but only won 5 of them, which says something about how much a difference-maker or two would have impacted that team.
BigBadBruins7708
Registered User
The Bruins were a loaded team that played the lockout wrong (had no contracts coming out of it). They were #3 in the league (104 points) and got bounced in 03 with the start of the No Show Joe reputation (0-0-0 line in a #2 v #7 loss to Montreal)
Thornton, Murray, Knuble, Rolston, Bergeron, Krejci (wouldve been rookie year), Samsonov, Axelsson, Nylander, Lapointe up front
Gonchar, Boynton, Gill, McGillis on the backend
Raycroft/Thomas (?) in net
Thornton, Murray, Knuble, Rolston, Bergeron, Krejci (wouldve been rookie year), Samsonov, Axelsson, Nylander, Lapointe up front
Gonchar, Boynton, Gill, McGillis on the backend
Raycroft/Thomas (?) in net
It's tough to say since there were so many unsigned Group III free agents since nobody had any idea what the next CBA was going to bring. Here's a list of free agents headed into that offseason:
Additionally, I had forgotten that St. Louis didn't give Pavol Demitra a qualifying offer and he was UFA. Only a small number of UFAs signed in the summer of 2004, notable ones being: Dominik Hasek, Brian Rolston, Craig Conroy, Richard Matvichuk.
But there were some prominent names who weren't under contract: Brendan Shanahan, Mathieu Schneider, Ziggy Palffy, Alexei Kovalev, Petr Nedved, Eric Lindros, Paul Kariya, Teemu Selanne.
I would have put money on Ottawa with Hasek. Stacked roster that was a 102 point team with Patrick Lalime and Martin Prusek in net.
For the Devils, I had forgotten that Lou signed Richard Matvichuk in 2004. I'm not sure if Scott Stevens would have contemplated playing in 2004-05, so it's tough to say if Matvichuk was insurance in case Stevens wasn't ready to go or an outright replacement. New Jersey would have had one final year of Scott Niedermayer fresh off a Norris Trophy.
Zach Parise floundered as a center in 2005-06 before he switched to left wing. So I'd imagine the same thing would've happened if he played 2004-05.
Devils lineup would have looked something like:
Elias-Gomez-Gionta
Friesen-(Hrdina/Parise?)-Kozlov
Pandolfo-Madden-Langenbrunner
Brylin-(Rasmussen/Rheaume)-(Marshall?)
White-Niedermayer
Matvichuk-Rafalski
Hale-Martin
(Stevens?)
Brodeur-(Clemmensen?)
Perhaps not the most imposing on paper, but that roster was a 100 point team in 2003-04. I found an old article which said that Stevens was medically cleared in November 2004, so perhaps he would have missed the first couple months of a hypothetical season.
Although the lack of secondary scoring would have been the Achilles heel. Friesen's speed had already deteriorated by 2003-04 and Viktor Kozlov was a perpetual enigma. Jan Hrdina had put up decent numbers (playing with other stars in Pittsburgh) but perhaps was not an ideal #2 center on his own.
Additionally, I had forgotten that St. Louis didn't give Pavol Demitra a qualifying offer and he was UFA. Only a small number of UFAs signed in the summer of 2004, notable ones being: Dominik Hasek, Brian Rolston, Craig Conroy, Richard Matvichuk.
But there were some prominent names who weren't under contract: Brendan Shanahan, Mathieu Schneider, Ziggy Palffy, Alexei Kovalev, Petr Nedved, Eric Lindros, Paul Kariya, Teemu Selanne.
I would have put money on Ottawa with Hasek. Stacked roster that was a 102 point team with Patrick Lalime and Martin Prusek in net.
For the Devils, I had forgotten that Lou signed Richard Matvichuk in 2004. I'm not sure if Scott Stevens would have contemplated playing in 2004-05, so it's tough to say if Matvichuk was insurance in case Stevens wasn't ready to go or an outright replacement. New Jersey would have had one final year of Scott Niedermayer fresh off a Norris Trophy.
Zach Parise floundered as a center in 2005-06 before he switched to left wing. So I'd imagine the same thing would've happened if he played 2004-05.
Devils lineup would have looked something like:
Elias-Gomez-Gionta
Friesen-(Hrdina/Parise?)-Kozlov
Pandolfo-Madden-Langenbrunner
Brylin-(Rasmussen/Rheaume)-(Marshall?)
White-Niedermayer
Matvichuk-Rafalski
Hale-Martin
(Stevens?)
Brodeur-(Clemmensen?)
Perhaps not the most imposing on paper, but that roster was a 100 point team in 2003-04. I found an old article which said that Stevens was medically cleared in November 2004, so perhaps he would have missed the first couple months of a hypothetical season.
Although the lack of secondary scoring would have been the Achilles heel. Friesen's speed had already deteriorated by 2003-04 and Viktor Kozlov was a perpetual enigma. Jan Hrdina had put up decent numbers (playing with other stars in Pittsburgh) but perhaps was not an ideal #2 center on his own.
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
At the time, I thought Tampa Bay had a great shot of repeating. They had a great young core that only looked to be getting better.
Without the rule changes, they keep their goalie. They also don't re-sign Richards for such an insane contract, which likely helps them out depth wise.
Without the rule changes, they keep their goalie. They also don't re-sign Richards for such an insane contract, which likely helps them out depth wise.
67Leafs67
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If you divide the teams up into three categories, those being a) made the playoffs in 2004 & 2006, b) made the playoffs in 1 of 2 seasons, and c) missed the playoffs both seasons, it looks like this. I put their regulation points% in brackets from each season.
Eastern Conference
Ottawa Senators (58.5% --> 66.5%) = 62.5% avg
New Jersey Devils (59.8% --> 53.7%) = 56.8% avg
Philadelphia Flyers (57.9% --> 54.9%) = 56.4% avg
Tampa Bay Lightning (61.0% --> 48.8%) = 54.9% avg
Montreal Canadiens (54.3% --> 51.2%) = 52.8% avg
-------------------------------------------------------
Toronto Maple Leafs (61.0% --> 48.8%) = 54.9% avg
Buffalo Sabres (49.4% -->60.4%) = 54.9% avg
Carolina Hurricanes (42.7% --> 61.0%) = 51.9% avg
Boston Bruins (59.1% --> 41.5%) = 50.3% avg
New York Islanders (53.0% --> 40.2%) = 46.6% avg
New York Rangers (37.2% --> 54.3%) = 45.8% avg
-------------------------------------------------------
Atlanta Thrashers (45.1% --> 48.8%) = 47.0% avg
Florida Panthers (43.4% --> 44.5%) = 44.0% avg
Washington Capitals (34.1% --> 37.2%) = 35.7% avg
Pittsburgh Penguins (32.9% --> 32.3%) = 32.6% avg
Western Conference
Detroit Red Wings (65.2% --> 71.3%) = 68.3% avg
Dallas Stars (57.9% --> 59.1%) = 58.5% avg
Calgary Flames (55.5% --> 60.4%) = 58.0% avg
San Jose Sharks (59.8% --> 54.3%) = 57.1% avg
Nashville Predators (53.0% --> 59.1%) = 56.1% avg
Colorado Avalanche (56.7% --> 54.3%) = 55.5% avg
-------------------------------------------------------
Vancouver Canucks (58.5% --> 51.2%) = 54.9% avg
Edmonton Oilers (51.2% --> 50.0%) = 50.6% avg
Mighty Ducks of Anaheim (41.5% --> 56.1%) = 48.8% avg
St. Louis Blues (54.3% --> 30.5%) = 42.4% avg
-------------------------------------------------------
Minnesota Wild (48.8% --> 47.6%) = 48.2% avg
Los Angeles Kings (43.9% --> 48.2%) = 46.1% avg
Phoenix Coyotes (37.8% --> 43.3%) = 40.6% avg
Columbus Blue Jackets (35.4% --> 36.6%) = 36.0% avg
Chicago Blackhawks (31.1% --> 34.1%) = 32.6% avg
That's an interesting starting point to discuss who has a shot at the Cup. Obviously this is far from a perfect measure or prediction, especially given how many unknowns there were with FA.
Based on the above though, your playoff matchups would've looked like:
1. OTT vs 8. CAR
2. NJD vs 7. MTL
3. TBL vs 6. BUF
4. PHI vs 5. TOR
1. DET vs 8. EDM
2. DAL vs 7. VAN
3. CGY vs 6. COL
4. SJS vs 5. NSH
Eastern Conference
Ottawa Senators (58.5% --> 66.5%) = 62.5% avg
New Jersey Devils (59.8% --> 53.7%) = 56.8% avg
Philadelphia Flyers (57.9% --> 54.9%) = 56.4% avg
Tampa Bay Lightning (61.0% --> 48.8%) = 54.9% avg
Montreal Canadiens (54.3% --> 51.2%) = 52.8% avg
-------------------------------------------------------
Toronto Maple Leafs (61.0% --> 48.8%) = 54.9% avg
Buffalo Sabres (49.4% -->60.4%) = 54.9% avg
Carolina Hurricanes (42.7% --> 61.0%) = 51.9% avg
Boston Bruins (59.1% --> 41.5%) = 50.3% avg
New York Islanders (53.0% --> 40.2%) = 46.6% avg
New York Rangers (37.2% --> 54.3%) = 45.8% avg
-------------------------------------------------------
Atlanta Thrashers (45.1% --> 48.8%) = 47.0% avg
Florida Panthers (43.4% --> 44.5%) = 44.0% avg
Washington Capitals (34.1% --> 37.2%) = 35.7% avg
Pittsburgh Penguins (32.9% --> 32.3%) = 32.6% avg
Western Conference
Detroit Red Wings (65.2% --> 71.3%) = 68.3% avg
Dallas Stars (57.9% --> 59.1%) = 58.5% avg
Calgary Flames (55.5% --> 60.4%) = 58.0% avg
San Jose Sharks (59.8% --> 54.3%) = 57.1% avg
Nashville Predators (53.0% --> 59.1%) = 56.1% avg
Colorado Avalanche (56.7% --> 54.3%) = 55.5% avg
-------------------------------------------------------
Vancouver Canucks (58.5% --> 51.2%) = 54.9% avg
Edmonton Oilers (51.2% --> 50.0%) = 50.6% avg
Mighty Ducks of Anaheim (41.5% --> 56.1%) = 48.8% avg
St. Louis Blues (54.3% --> 30.5%) = 42.4% avg
-------------------------------------------------------
Minnesota Wild (48.8% --> 47.6%) = 48.2% avg
Los Angeles Kings (43.9% --> 48.2%) = 46.1% avg
Phoenix Coyotes (37.8% --> 43.3%) = 40.6% avg
Columbus Blue Jackets (35.4% --> 36.6%) = 36.0% avg
Chicago Blackhawks (31.1% --> 34.1%) = 32.6% avg
That's an interesting starting point to discuss who has a shot at the Cup. Obviously this is far from a perfect measure or prediction, especially given how many unknowns there were with FA.
Based on the above though, your playoff matchups would've looked like:
1. OTT vs 8. CAR
2. NJD vs 7. MTL
3. TBL vs 6. BUF
4. PHI vs 5. TOR
1. DET vs 8. EDM
2. DAL vs 7. VAN
3. CGY vs 6. COL
4. SJS vs 5. NSH
Last edited:
overpass
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I think the Ottawa Senators are the favourite in this hypothetical season. Hasek was already signed before the lockout. No Heatley trade, so they arguably still need a goal scorer, but Jason Spezza was ready to be the #1 centre and would provide an offensive boost in the playoffs, and Martin Havlat was ready for a bigger role if he could stay healthy. Alfredsson and Hossa are still there. No Olympics so Hasek might actually play in the playoffs. Prime Chara, Redden, and Phillips on D.
It’s so hard to say who the Art Ross and Hart (if it’s a forward) favourites are. Is Marty St Louis going to score 94 points or 60 points? Is Jagr going to tear it up in New York? Is Thornton ready to take the next step? Can Peter Forsberg play a full season? Maybe Kovalchuk gets the Art Ross while playing 25 minutes/game on a terrible team, and Kiprusoff or Hasek wins the Hart.
Lidstrom has to be the Norris favourite, although Niedermayer could win another one in New Jersey and maybe Sergei Zubov finally gets recognition on a stingy Dallas team.
It’s so hard to say who the Art Ross and Hart (if it’s a forward) favourites are. Is Marty St Louis going to score 94 points or 60 points? Is Jagr going to tear it up in New York? Is Thornton ready to take the next step? Can Peter Forsberg play a full season? Maybe Kovalchuk gets the Art Ross while playing 25 minutes/game on a terrible team, and Kiprusoff or Hasek wins the Hart.
Lidstrom has to be the Norris favourite, although Niedermayer could win another one in New Jersey and maybe Sergei Zubov finally gets recognition on a stingy Dallas team.
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
Cool way to look at it.
I think that if we want the most "accurate" estimate, we would want to weigh 2003-04 more heavily than 2005-06, since no lockout likely means 2003-04 rules, at least with regards to free agency. Not sure how much more heavily though.
Trap Jesus
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Ottawa was beyond stacked at that time
67Leafs67
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Yeah they were well set up for a 2004/05 run. Best team in the Eastern Conference combining 2004 & 2006, and they had just added Hasek in net, a big improvement on Lalime. Most goals in the NHL in 03/04 and 05/06. Adding Hasek in goal moved them from 8th in GA to 3rd by 2005/06.
Their only pending UFAs were fringe/depth players:
Their entire core group was still under contract. Hossa & Alfredsson, with a year improved Spezza & Havlat. They'd still have had Chara with Redden & Phillips on the back-end. They'd definitely be my bet for the finalists from the Eastern Conference.
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