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How strong is SPHL?

Eye of Ra

Eye of Ra

Grandmaster General of the International boards
Nov 15, 2008
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Malmö, Sweden
Im just curious how strong this league is. How much worse is it than ECHL? If comparing SPHL to euro leagues, would you guys say its a stronger league than lets say EIHL or French league?
 
Silly Season talk already? Can we at least wait until the ECHL crowns its 2022 playoff champion, so we have some fresh data to beat to a pulp? :deadhorse
 
Barclay Donaldson said:
League quality fluctuates from top to bottom, but very comparable with Ligue Magnus and EIHL.
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Ligue Magnus is a tangibly better league than the SPHL; SPHL regulars who have played in the LM have typically had little impact. And the EIHL even more so, thanks to a higher quality of imports than the LM on most teams.
 
masa2009 said:
Ligue Magnus is a tangibly better league than the SPHL; SPHL regulars who have played in the LM have typically had little impact. And the EIHL even more so, thanks to a higher quality of imports than the LM on most teams.
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I find that hard to believe it is better to the point of saying that they're not comparable. Especially since Covid has hit.

The lines between the lower end of ECHL talent and upper end of SPHL talent have become blurred. The vast majority of Ligue Magnus imports are lower end ECHL players. Lower end ECHL players nowadays are SPHL guys.

For even more proof that it is comparable and not tangibly better, just looking at the three top import players based on statistics, Marinaccio was very much a lower end ECHL player in 2020-21 with less than 0.5 PPG and a horrific plus/minus on a decent team, Deschamps was a middle of the line ECHL player 7 years ago and has declined since, and Kearney was a solid SPHL player 10 years ago and has declined since.
 
How many players like Kearney or Beslisle does the SPHL really have? Kearney performed fairly well in the EBEL too. Is he representative of SPHL first liners?
As far as Deschamps, you pick one bad year and you call him a lower end ECHL player (when he was a point a game player in those playoffs). The guy was a solid AHL player and performed well at Allsvenskan level, one of the hardest minor leagues to score in in Europe. Even if there was some regression, his skill level is far superior to most SPHL first liners.
Marinaccio played a grand total of 23 games in the ECHL, are you really going to use that sample size to judge his potential at the ECHL level?

You can always find outliers, but if you look at transfers, the vast majority of SPHL players that play in France go the 2nd and 3rd level. SPHL top scorers often they have no tangible references outside that league. A few of their stars even come the Federal. The LM has a bunch of players with elite European league and AHL experience. They might be past their prime in many cases, but to pretend there is not much difference between their skill level and that of a league where All-Stars are routinely drawn from NCAA Division III is disingenuous. Those players exist in the LM, some might even carve decent playing time on one of the league's mid to low table teams, but they are almost always surrounded with more experienced imports, and they are virtually non-existent on bonafide championship contenders.
There is probably a higher quality gap between top and low end team in the LM than in a North American league, but the skill ceiling in the LM is higher than that of the SPHL by some distance.
 
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Barclay Donaldson said:
I find that hard to believe it is better to the point of saying that they're not comparable. Especially since Covid has hit.

The lines between the lower end of ECHL talent and upper end of SPHL talent have become blurred. The vast majority of Ligue Magnus imports are lower end ECHL players. Lower end ECHL players nowadays are SPHL guys.

For even more proof that it is comparable and not tangibly better, just looking at the three top import players based on statistics, Marinaccio was very much a lower end ECHL player in 2020-21 with less than 0.5 PPG and a horrific plus/minus on a decent team, Deschamps was a middle of the line ECHL player 7 years ago and has declined since, and Kearney was a solid SPHL player 10 years ago and has declined since.
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The SPHL is really just turning into glorified NCAA D3 hockey. It is filled with D3 guys and bad D1 players. It is a league for guys trying to either pad their resume for the future by saying they played pro hockey, or guys who can't give up the dream.

The Ligue Magnus is a lot better than the SPHL. There are NCAA D3 teams who could win the SPHL...
 
bigdog16 said:
The SPHL is really just turning into glorified NCAA D3 hockey. It is filled with D3 guys and bad D1 players. It is a league for guys trying to either pad their resume for the future by saying they played pro hockey, or guys who can't give up the dream.

The Ligue Magnus is a lot better than the SPHL. There are NCAA D3 teams who could win the SPHL...
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Fans never want to hear that the players aren't "prospects" in the truest sense of the word, but in the SPHL and the FPHL, they're not. The dream was over for most of these guys long before lacing them up in the SPHL. But they get to have fun and enjoy their mid-20s in a different environment for a year or three. They're hanging on to the game as long as they can.

Would a top Division III team be competitive night-in, night-out in the SPHL? No question they would. Far more top players in Division III retire to work in finance or go to grad school than go on to ride the bus in the SPHL or play overseas. There's a bigger talent gap top-to-bottom on an SPHL roster than any team in the NESCAC or MIAC.
 
CrazyEddie20 said:
Fans never want to hear that the players aren't "prospects" in the truest sense of the word, but in the SPHL and the FPHL, they're not. The dream was over for most of these guys long before lacing them up in the SPHL. But they get to have fun and enjoy their mid-20s in a different environment for a year or three. They're hanging on to the game as long as they can.

Would a top Division III team be competitive night-in, night-out in the SPHL? No question they would. Far more top players in Division III retire to work in finance or go to grad school than go on to ride the bus in the SPHL or play overseas. There's a bigger talent gap top-to-bottom on an SPHL roster than any team in the NESCAC or MIAC.
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Exactly. A large majority of D3 guys age out in juniors and are already behind the eight-ball graduating at 25. Most of their peers are years into their professional careers and making money. An average starting salary in the real world is more than double what you could make in the ECHL, never mind the SPHL. There are some damn good D3 players who hang it up after college because they realize there is no path beyond the ECHL. Pro hockey for these guys is nothing more than a resume builder. I was part of a top 10 D3 team for multiple seasons and our best players hung them up to get real jobs, and there were 3rd and 4th liners who would go play in the SP and be point per game guys.
 
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bigdog16 said:
Exactly. A large majority of D3 guys age out in juniors and are already behind the eight-ball graduating at 25. Most of their peers are years into their professional careers and making money. An average starting salary in the real world is more than double what you could make in the ECHL, never mind the SPHL. There are some damn good D3 players who hang it up after college because they realize there is no path beyond the ECHL. Pro hockey for these guys is nothing more than a resume builder. I was part of a top 10 D3 team for multiple seasons and our best players hung them up to get real jobs, and there were 3rd and 4th liners who would go play in the SP and be point per game guys.
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Yup. Look at a guy like Mark Sibbald, the fourth goalie and rarely saw the ice at Brown, a perennial bottom feeder in Division I, goes to Huntsville and becomes a starter with a winning record for three seasons. There are plenty of other examples, but there's one off the top of my head.
 
CrazyEddie20 said:
Fans never want to hear that the players aren't "prospects" in the truest sense of the word, but in the SPHL and the FPHL, they're not. The dream was over for most of these guys long before lacing them up in the SPHL. But they get to have fun and enjoy their mid-20s in a different environment for a year or three. They're hanging on to the game as long as they can.

Would a top Division III team be competitive night-in, night-out in the SPHL? No question they would. Far more top players in Division III retire to work in finance or go to grad school than go on to ride the bus in the SPHL or play overseas. There's a bigger talent gap top-to-bottom on an SPHL roster than any team in the NESCAC or MIAC.
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The SPHL would be better off if they would stop trying to fool themselves into believing they are a developmental league. Just put the most entertaining product you can afford on the ice.
 
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bigdog16 said:
Its not hypothetical. Its not a debate really, its common knowledge
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That's not what I asked.

But to bring it back to that: yes, it most definitely is a hypothetical that a D3 team could win an SPHL championship because there's no D3 team playing in the SPHL. You can't actually win a league you don't play in.

So, again, how does one confirm a hypothetical?
 
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CrazyEddie20 said:
Fans never want to hear that the players aren't "prospects" in the truest sense of the word, but in the SPHL and the FPHL, they're not. The dream was over for most of these guys long before lacing them up in the SPHL. But they get to have fun and enjoy their mid-20s in a different environment for a year or three. They're hanging on to the game as long as they can.

Would a top Division III team be competitive night-in, night-out in the SPHL? No question they would. Far more top players in Division III retire to work in finance or go to grad school than go on to ride the bus in the SPHL or play overseas. There's a bigger talent gap top-to-bottom on an SPHL roster than any team in the NESCAC or MIAC.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with the SPHL serving as a glorified beer league. If it gives players a chance to keep playing a few more years and fans a chance to show up, get drunk, and watch fist fights while having something that resembles community pride, then there is some value in looking at it that way.

But if you think there is some effort in using the league as a developmental tool, then that's not positive thinking. By your late 20s, you probably know your peak skillset, and if you're in a place like the SPHL or Ligue Nord, then that likely meant it wasn't that high to begin with. Sure, you may be able to turn things around and land a gig with an ECHL or AHL team, but chances aren't great.
 
Kinda: Jorge Alves played some in the SP and eventually served as the EBUG for the Canes, getting game action in 2016-17.

Yes: Scott Darling played in the SPHL while struggling with certain issues in his personal life and then played in the NHL after straightening out his life.

Also, google is your friend and would have answered that question for you.
 
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