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How skilled was Paul Kariya?

Yea he had a pretty good amount of skill. He was headed for some great career numbers and a couple trophies until Suter decided to be his ******* self. One of the best "what could have been" players, mind you he was still a top 10/15 player after the Suter incident.
 
Top five talent all time? Or top five in his era? The first one might be a tough argument to make.

Anyway, I was a big fan too. I thought he was going to be the best of the 'post-Mario' generation of Forsberg, Bure, Lindros, Jagr and him.

His ability to handle the puck and make plays at high speeds was, along with Bure and Coffey, the best I've ever seen (maybe McDavid joins this list shortly). Just so fast and agile, great vision, great shot... very exciting player.

In terms of, 'how skilled was he', I think Bure and Yzerman, that type of player, would be good comparisons when he was at his peak.
 
Kronwalled8 said:
I was a huge fan of him, its too bad injuries did him in. Id say he was a top 5 talent when he was in his prime. He was a unique rare talent.
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Top 5 in the league for sure for a few years.

In the mid-late 90s it was looking like Forsberg, Lindros, Jagr, and Kariya were the best forwards in the league. Unfortunately only Jagr managed to stay healthy.
 
Wrath said:
Top 5 in the league for sure for a few years.

In the mid-late 90s it was looking like Forsberg, Lindros, Jagr, and Kariya were the best forwards in the league. Unfortunately only Jagr managed to stay healthy.
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What about Fedorov, Sakic, Yzerman, Selanne, Bure?
 
He certainly was incredible at his peak, but it seemed a bit short. From 1995 to 2000 he was unstoppable.

I think, starting in 2000, Kariya ran into three things:
(a) Gary Suter (followed by Stevens)
(b) The Dead-puck era
(c) Dominance of BIG forwards at expense of little ones

He was still great after 2000, but just not so dominant. He seemed to successfully adapt his game later in his career, and I think his two seasons in Nashville were really good. In fact, he was crazy to leave there. Bad move.
 
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I think people romanticize Kariya a lot. The guy was good enough to score 100 points a couple of times in full 82-game seasons, and had one year of 99 points in 69 games.

He wasn't as good as LaFontaine, who wasn't as good as the major players in the 90s.
 
Cursed Lemon said:
I think people romanticize Kariya a lot. The guy was good enough to score 100 points a couple of times in full 82-game seasons, and had one year of 99 points in 69 games.

He wasn't as good as LaFontaine, who wasn't as good as the major players in the 90s.
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Yeah, Selänne was the better player of these two guys in Anaheim. I would have thought that even without his resurrection. Kariya probably looked a bit better than he was because of that speed. He had a lot of skill, but I don't think he was the most innovative, or creative, guy with the puck. I think he was actually a bit like Lindros in that sense. Kariya was Lindros but only a much, much smaller & nicer version.

Also, it's crazy Kariya had 429 shots in 98–99 and Selänne 281 [almost 150 fewer] and Selänne still separated himself with 8 goals. 429 shots... even a monster shooter as Ovechkin has only topped that twice.
 
Selanne was a little bit better but that doesn't diminish Kariya's career IMO; it just tells people how great Teemu was.

I was still a child back then so I have major nostalgia goggles but if I were to compare Kariya in terms of relative dominance, not play style, to a player today it would definitely be a guy like Claude Giroux. Never the best, but in the top 3-5 at his best.
 
Post-Suter and few other injuries (even though he still had some good seasons), Kariya was never as dynamic as he was before. Crosby is kind of going through the same thing the last couple of years... Still capable of winning an Art Ross but not nearly as offensively aggressive and driving as he was before.

Post-Suter (even during the Duck years), I'd agree Selanne was better. Prior to that, Kariya was the catalyst. To me, Kariya always had the higher upside and the better all-around offensive skillset.
 
Cursed Lemon said:
I think people romanticize Kariya a lot. The guy was good enough to score 100 points a couple of times in full 82-game seasons, and had one year of 99 points in 69 games.

He wasn't as good as LaFontaine, who wasn't as good as the major players in the 90s.
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For a brief moment before all the concussions, Kariya was the most electric player in the game and certainly better than what Lafontaine was (with the exception of maybe 1993). The guy was scoring 100+ points as a 21 year old on an expansion team.
 
Kariya had more tools in ofrensive end than Selanne. Teemu was better goal-scorer though. I think they were close to equal in terms of abilities.

Kariya was really talented. Hall of Fame talent for sure.
 
Cursed Lemon said:
I think people romanticize Kariya a lot. The guy was good enough to score 100 points a couple of times in full 82-game seasons, and had one year of 99 points in 69 games.

He wasn't as good as LaFontaine, who wasn't as good as the major players in the 90s.
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He was easily better than Lafontaine IMO, save for 1993 when he had his peak year.
 
Concensus is that Kariya was around as good as Selanne was. Some say he was even better. If he was worse than LaFontaine, that means Selanne was worse too. Anyone here really thinks that?
 
Cursed Lemon said:
I think people romanticize Kariya a lot. The guy was good enough to score 100 points a couple of times in full 82-game seasons, and had one year of 99 points in 69 games.

He wasn't as good as LaFontaine, who wasn't as good as the major players in the 90s.
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This is revisionist history. Kariya's five-year prime certainly surpasses Lafontaine's. For those five years you could make the argument that he was the best offensive player in the game outside of Jagr. It wasn't outlandish for Kariya to be the answer to the question "who would you most want to build your team around?"
 
highly underrated around these parts as the years have gone by

without the injuries he would have been in the HOF without a doubt. just a remarkable player to watch when he was on top of his game
 
During his peak, Karyia was a top 5 player rather easily and was along with Jagr and Bure, the most talented player in the NHL (outside of Lemieux) circa 1995-2000.

Him scoring 99 Pts in 69 games during the DPE was a prime example of how great he was. Also all this talk of him not being innovative or creative is pure BS. He was equally as good at passing the puck as he was at finishing, and was as explosive as they got on his skates and had one of the hardest one-time/ slapshots in NHL history. While he didn't play the game the way Bure and Jagr played (all flash), that had more to do with him being a North-South player as most North Americans learned to play the game that way. It doesn't mean though that he didn't have the creativity to pull off highlight reel plays.

A peak Karyia was a better player than a peak St. Louis was as small player comparisons go.

When Lemieux and Gretzky were getting older, a lot of experts felt it was Karyia who would take the mantle from them, of course him being Canadian helped with that. Bure, Jagr, Forsberg and Selanne had to really earn that title. The only thing that really got in his way was the clutching and grabbing and the limited space that there was on the ice due to all the big lugs that were playing then.

Karyia would have thrived in today's NHL, what with his skillset and speed.

Truly and underrated player, a player that I think will eventually get into the HOF along with Lindros.

Lindros and Karyia were quite the opposite player however, one was small, electrifying with his finesse and skill, while the other was huge, got by with brute force and could pummel players to a pulp. The only things that link them is that both are Canadian, both had concussion issues and both played during the DPE.
 
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bigsick said:
Very underrated. At his peak he was better than Selanne no doubt.
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Yes Karyia was underrated but I think that not much if anything really separated Selanne and Karyia.

While Selanne was the better goalscorer, Karyia was also a better defensive player. Both had great speed, both were highly skilled at playmaking and finishing and both were clutch (in the regular season).

There were seasons where Selanne was better and other seasons where Karyia was better when they played together. One things's for sure though, both were top 5 players from 1996 to 2000. If you exclude Lemieux of course.
 
Stephen said:
For a brief moment before all the concussions, Kariya was the most electric player in the game and certainly better than what Lafontaine was (with the exception of maybe 1993). The guy was scoring 100+ points as a 21 year old on an expansion team.
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Shawked said:
He was easily better than Lafontaine IMO, save for 1993 when he had his peak year.
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mrhockey193195 said:
This is revisionist history. Kariya's five-year prime certainly surpasses Lafontaine's. For those five years you could make the argument that he was the best offensive player in the game outside of Jagr. It wasn't outlandish for Kariya to be the answer to the question "who would you most want to build your team around?"
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Alright, I revise my answer, Kariya was as good as Lafontaine. Their adjusted numbers are 1.06 and 1.03, respectively. What especially burns me about Kariya is that his grand playoff performance was 12 points in 21 games. LaFontaine played more than 10 playoff games only one time after his rookie year, and he matched that total in 14 games.

From '96 to '00, Kariya was sixth in total scoring, and tied for 4th in PPG with Selanne:

Lemieux - 1.94
Jagr - 1.55
Lindros - 1.33
Kariya - 1.29
Selanne - 1.29
Forsberg - 1.27
Sakic - 1.26

I still take Forsberg and Sakic over Kariya.
 
livewell68 said:
During his peak, Karyia was a top 5 player rather easily and was along with Jagr and Bure, the most talented player in the NHL (outside of Lemieux) circa 1995-2000.

Him scoring 99 Pts in 69 games during the DPE was a prime example of how great he was. Also all this talk of him not being innovative or creative is pure BS. He was equally as good at passing the puck as he was at finishing, and was as explosive as they got on his skates and had one of the hardest one-time/ slapshots in NHL history. While he didn't play the game the way Bure and Jagr played (all flash), that had more to do with him being a North-South player as most North Americans learned to play the game that way. It doesn't mean though that he didn't have the creativity to pull off highlight reel plays.

A peak Karyia was a better player than a peak St. Louis was as small player comparisons go.

When Lemieux and Gretzky were getting older, a lot of experts felt it was Karyia who would take the mantle from them, of course him being Canadian helped with that. Bure, Jagr, Forsberg and Selanne had to really earn that title. The only thing that really got in his way was the clutching and grabbing and the limited space that there was on the ice due to all the big lugs that were playing then.

Karyia would have thrived in today's NHL, what with his skillset and speed.
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Very well said. Bravo. I remember hearing the whole "mantle" thing too, and really thought it could happen before Suter had one of his dirty plays. Looks like it opened up for Sakic to be the "Best Canadian in the World."
 
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