How many jobs are on the line?

[GoonieFace]

Dubas need to be canned
Keene needs to be canned
Shanny needs to be canned

Trade Marner
Tavares is untradable
Keep Nylander, cap hit is too good
Dump Kerfoot, Kase, Holl, Spezza and the rest of the rif raff

Get a real goalie

This is a start

 

[Cournoyer12]

What is your point then? You keep rebutting with “that’s not what I meant” so what did you mean? Who’s this magical solution in net?

I think goaltenders at this time are all a roll of the dice. I agree with folks that are talking about finding the right fit in house. I believe this to be critical for the advancement of this organization! Curry-comb high and low for this key issue. If not how bout Cam Talbot, serviceable re-tread who should have been given the chance in Minnesota to start their series. As far as Fluery goes I think he’s slowly fading and will probably end up in Montreal as a farewell tour type. We’re not going anywhere in the near future so it would probably be a good pub move on the cheap to put asses in the seat.

 

[GojuLeaf]

Better then losing in the 1st round every year

Really?

 

[JKG33]

Dubas has consistently improved this team year over year, despite everything he was saddled with when he started.

This team had everything it needed to win. The failure is on the coach and players.

And just to prevent stupid responses, no, he hasn't been perfect in his job, but that doesn't make him the problem.

The failure is on the players, but who brought in these players? Who refuses to shakeup the core? Right, Kyle Dubas.

I can't believe the level of delusion it takes to say such a thing. Dubas has been here what.. 8 years? And 4 as GM... he's had time to change things if he didn't like this group. It's not like he just inherited this team a year ago and is still evaluating.

 

[glue]

I get that it’s a difficult game and winning is very hard, BUT it’s not THAT hard with this much talent to win 1 rd. That gets to me and is why there clearly is something missing with this group. Setting cross North American sports leagues records for failure with the same core group of players to me is clearly telling of something not right. Hopefully, at some point we manage to win one round and the year we do, we go all the way.

 

[HomelessPepper]

Have his playoff results met your minimum standard over the his 4 years on the job?

Why yes, of course. Losing in the first round is what I live for.

Dubas is not the problem. Does he shoulder some blame? Yes. But you don't get rid of a good GM as a knee jerk reaction. You want Lou-like GMs making things worse?

It's as stupid as the calls to trade Marner, Nylander or Matthews.

 

[ToneDog]

Raps fired the coach after he won coach of the year. If Lou's only smart move (as the Lou haters will tell you) was to hire Trotz and Trotz was the sole reason for the Isles success, you gotta make the change. If the GM can't work with Trotz, then he goes too.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Well if he didn’t meet the minimum standard then he’s gone. That’s what minimum means.

 

[JKG33]

I get that it’s a difficult game and winning is very hard, BUT it’s not THAT hard with this much talent to win 1 rd. That gets to me and is why there clearly is something missing with this group. Setting cross North American sports leagues records for failure with the same core group of players to me is clearly telling of something not right. Hopefully, at some point we manage to win one round and the year we do, we go all the way.

I agree. Teams with this much talent should've won a round at some point. Hell, going to 6 straight deciding games you should really come out 50/50. But nope, they've lost every single time. It's almost like this team was purposely built to lose in the playoffs. He's brought in one single significant player with winning playoff experience, Jake Muzzin. When your superstars already play losing hockey, you've gotta insulate them with winners, not more of the same

 

[ryno23]

Perspective people.

This core wasn't the reason they didn't win. The core played well just couldn't beat the best goalie in the NHL in a 1 game winner take all vs the 2 time defending champs.

post-lockout in the 11 years prior to them being on this 6 consecutive playoff appearance streak they made the playoffs once....once.

Yeah, sucks that they keep losing in the 1st round but at least they are making the playoffs year after year. I would rather that happen than not make the playoff and maybe one year they do win a round.

Another year of tinkering around the edges to find the right combo.

So many things went well this year.

1. Core stepped up in the playoffs
2. Bunting, Kampf were all great additions
3. Lilly took a huge step forward to solidify his spot
4. deadline additions actually worked out with guys like Gio and Blackwell
5. Kallgreen might have solidified the back up position that has been a blackhole.

So you move out guys like Kerfoot, Holl, Marazek. Sign Mik if the deal is team friendly only. See if Speeza and Gio are willing to play on league minimum again this year.

Yeah it sucks they lost but remember all the non-playoff years post lockout

 

[Stolie the Goalie]

I have a feeling Keefe might be the only one gone. Dubas will get another year and Campbell is done in Toronto.

 

[glue]

I agree. Teams with this much talent should've won a round at some point. Hell, going to 6 straight deciding games you should really come out 50/50. But nope, they've lost every single time. It's almost like this team was purposely built to lose in the playoffs. He's brought in one single significant player with winning playoff experience, Jake Muzzin. When your superstars already play losing hockey, you've gotta insulate them with winners, not more of the same

Someone has to step up in big moments, that’s what separates winners and losers. Leafs seemingly have nobody every single year who can do that. It’s getting tiresome. I’m not saying I know the answer or solution, but it’s so obvious at this point that something about the way this team is built, the players, mindset etc. it’s preventing playoff success. It absolutely sucks to be a fan of this team, but T.O fan for life - Jays, Raps, Leafs etc. so that’ll remain no matter what, just tired of seeing so much failure. It’s truly mind blowing

 

[IrishInOntario]

Also just because the other teams’ goalie plays poorly doesn’t mean you lower the bar on your own goalie. That is such a weird thing to say.

People who don’t understand goaltending will be easily swayed watching. Jack makes a bunch of seemingly highlight saves swimming on his belly or making kick saves like it’s the 1980s and diving around.

Meanwhile the other goalie makes a bunch of routine looking stops.

However they don’t notice how Jack turns so many average chances into grade A opportunities with his poor post-save movement or rebound control.

Tonight was such a clear example as Vasi repeatedly made grade A chances from Matthews and co look routine with his calm movement, positional play and rebound control. He never scrambled.

Jack gave all this heart and will but the difference in technical skill and athleticism between the two goalies is too much to overcome with pure heart.

Switch goalies and the Leafs win the series easily. If you don’t believe it you’re lying to yourself.



Freddie is a better goalie than Campbell.

But Campbell at 1.x made more sense than Freddy at 5.

Carolina knocked it out of the park getting Raanta to backup. He’s one of the most underrated goalies in the league.

While you are not wrong and Vasi is certainly superior to Campbell, Jack was good enough to win a game 7, at home, giving up only 2 goals.

Look no further than the vaunted Toronto offense, which always seems to disappear at the worst possible time, with a playoff series on the line. This team is built around its offense, but they consistently wilt in the spotlight. 1 goal on 30+ shots is simply unacceptable, lack of scoring class in a big moment. As was as Vasi played, Toronto had numerous opportunities to score and they often squandered them, missing wide open nets, or being unable to finish odd man rushes.

Campbell could have been better through the first 6 games of the series, without a doubt. But I thought he was good enough in game 7 to get a win, if the the offense would not have turtled in a big moment, yet again.

 

[rocketman588]

Why yes, of course. Losing in the first round is what I live for.

Dubas is not the problem. Does he shoulder some blame? Yes. But you don't get rid of a good GM as a knee jerk reaction. You want Lou-like GMs making things worse?

It's as stupid as the calls to trade Marner, Nylander or Matthews.

"Lou like GM"

You mean the dude that led a successful tank to pick up Matthews, drafted Marner and didn't blow 11 mil a year on an unmovable contract?

I mean even burke has contributed more useful parts to this team then dubas. Dude has been great at dumpster diving but he was handed a Mercedes and drove it off a cliff

 

[Leafs98]

This team would have beat the habs and jets last year. Lost to tampa this year. We'd be saying good things. Hung up on this 6 in a row thing. This is a good team....now. Just wish there was some way to restructure tavares to get a few more mid level pieces.

 

[GrizzGreen]

Reflective: Team played fairly well in the series

Realistically: you have to fire some people... they have an aversion to winning

 

[TorMapleJays]

Perspective people.

This core wasn't the reason they didn't win. The core played well just couldn't beat the best goalie in the NHL in a 1 game winner take all vs the 2 time defending champs.

post-lockout in the 11 years prior to them being on this 6 consecutive playoff appearance streak they made the playoffs once....once.

Yeah, sucks that they keep losing in the 1st round but at least they are making the playoffs year after year. I would rather that happen than not make the playoff and maybe one year they do win a round.

Another year of tinkering around the edges to find the right combo.

So many things went well this year.

1. Core stepped up in the playoffs
2. Bunting, Kampf were all great additions
3. Lilly took a huge step forward to solidify his spot
4. deadline additions actually worked out with guys like Gio and Blackwell
5. Kallgreen might have solidified the back up position that has been a blackhole.

So you move out guys like Kerfoot, Holl, Marazek. Sign Mik if the deal is team friendly only. See if Speeza and Gio are willing to play on league minimum again this year.

Yeah it sucks they lost but remember all the non-playoff years post lockout

No.

Six times in a row is not normal. At this point if they Leafs win a round it will be a statistical outlier.

Time to change.

0-10 in the last 10 series clinching games.

This team would have beat the habs and jets last year. Lost to tampa this year. We'd be saying good things. Hung up on this 6 in a row thing. This is a good team....now. Just wish there was some way to restructure tavares to get a few more mid level pieces.

No.

They lost

No should have could have would have

That’s loser talk.

FYI Vesi didn’t play great.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Thinking about the window, it's shrinking.

Matthews has a NMC in 2023-24. Would we let him walk and get nothing if it came down to that? Keep the band together and have one (or two) last kicks at the can?

This NMC that he gave is unforgivable IMO. You can't give him a short 5yr term AND the NMC in the final year. It had to be one or the other. Giving him both means he can just walk for nothing and I can't believe he thought that was a smart move. Of all the stupid things he did with contracts...that was the worst.

 

[Trapper]

Raps fired the coach after he won coach of the year. If Lou's only smart move (as the Lou haters will tell you) was to hire Trotz and Trotz was the sole reason for the Isles success, you gotta make the change. If the GM can't work with Trotz, then he goes too.

You can’t keep losing and nothing changes. We aren’t talking about the Holl for Lily change either.
The aura needs to change. 4 forwards up front need to become something else. A coach who has won game 7s. It can’t stay static.

 

[steam whistle]

No.

Six times in a row is not normal. At this point if they Leafs win a round it will be a statistical outlier.

Time to change.

0-10 in the last 10 series clinching games.


No.

They lost

No should have could have would have

That’s loser talk.

FYI Vesi didn’t play great.

So, is it means Ken Holland job is secured in better way than stupid Shanahan?

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I agree. Teams with this much talent should've won a round at some point. Hell, going to 6 straight deciding games you should really come out 50/50. But nope, they've lost every single time. It's almost like this team was purposely built to lose in the playoffs. He's brought in one single significant player with winning playoff experience, Jake Muzzin. When your superstars already play losing hockey, you've gotta insulate them with winners, not more of the same

This was my issue with bringing in the old San Jose gang. People said it was great because they were hungry vets who could help push us over the top. The reality was that the reason they never won wasn't just luck...it was because they did not have what it takes to do so. Bringing in a Cory Perry would have made more sense than Jumbo or Marleau. Spezza is almost an assistant coach...I can't complain about him. He helps in other ways. The other guys did not.

 

[67leafs]

I doubt anyone will go.
let’s face it, this was the Stanley cup finals series…..

 

[JKG33]

This was my issue with bringing in the old San Jose gang. People said it was great because they were hungry vets who could help push us over the top. The reality was that the reason they never won wasn't just luck...it was because they did not have what it takes to do so. Bringing in a Cory Perry would have made more sense than Jumbo or Marleau. Spezza is almost an assistant coach...I can't complain about him. He helps in other ways. The other guys did not.

I agree. You bring in a perennial loser in Marleau to play a significant role in teaching this kids how to win, that's a loser move. The only player worth a damn from that shitbag franchise is Pavelski.

I'll give Thornton a pass because he's washed up and didn't cost a huge cap hit at least.

But they still only bring in losers. Their big deadline acquisitions, Foligno and Giordano. Both guys have only won what.. 3 combined playoff rounds over their long careers? Meanwhile a guy who plays winning hockey in Sam Bennett was right there for the taking.

Or even the captain Tavares, coming in from the loser Isles franchise

 

[AuraSphere]

Keefe should be canned
Mikhyev/Kase should be let go
Campbell/Mrazek should be dumped
Get a #1G
Dubas gets another year

 

[GalacticaActual]

Fire all executives, managers, and coaches. And trade away every single player and prospect. Scorched earth.