How many jobs are on the line?

[NJG]

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[makbeer]

You tried to say there were no goalies available.

I told you that maf was available and that he had a better sv% than Campbell did and that we only needed 1 save in ot during game 6.

Somehow you take that as me guaranteeing that maf would win us the series?

You extremely distorted my post. That is a strawman. I'm not sure if you are just upset about the loss and not functioning properly or if you have reading issues but this is not the first time you've done this in the last hour or two.

In the future type what you mean. Don't expect others to gather some other meaning from your posts. This shouldn't have to be explained but I guess some people need everything spelled out for them.



Wait, are you saying you take Campbell and his sub 0.900sv% over Freddie and his 0.935sv%?

I might be misunderstanding you but I hope not.

Also, vasy had the exact same sv% but a better gaa. So no Campbell did not outplay vasi.

Anyone who thinks Campbell wasn't a problem doesn't understand hockey.

Also just because the other teams’ goalie plays poorly doesn’t mean you lower the bar on your own goalie. That is such a weird thing to say.

People who don’t understand goaltending will be easily swayed watching. Jack makes a bunch of seemingly highlight saves swimming on his belly or making kick saves like it’s the 1980s and diving around.

Meanwhile the other goalie makes a bunch of routine looking stops.

However they don’t notice how Jack turns so many average chances into grade A opportunities with his poor post-save movement or rebound control.

Tonight was such a clear example as Vasi repeatedly made grade A chances from Matthews and co look routine with his calm movement, positional play and rebound control. He never scrambled.

Jack gave all this heart and will but the difference in technical skill and athleticism between the two goalies is too much to overcome with pure heart.

Switch goalies and the Leafs win the series easily. If you don’t believe it you’re lying to yourself.

You tried to say there were no goalies available.

I told you that maf was available and that he had a better sv% than Campbell did and that we only needed 1 save in ot during game 6.

Somehow you take that as me guaranteeing that maf would win us the series?

You extremely distorted my post. That is a strawman. I'm not sure if you are just upset about the loss and not functioning properly or if you have reading issues but this is not the first time you've done this in the last hour or two.

In the future type what you mean. Don't expect others to gather some other meaning from your posts. This shouldn't have to be explained but I guess some people need everything spelled out for them.



Wait, are you saying you take Campbell and his sub 0.900sv% over Freddie and his 0.935sv%?

Also, vasy had the exact same sv% but a better gaa. So no Campbell did not outplay vasi.

Anyone who thinks Campbell wasn't a problem doesn't understand hockey.

Freddie is a better goalie than Campbell.

But Campbell at 1.x made more sense than Freddy at 5.

Carolina knocked it out of the park getting Raanta to backup. He’s one of the most underrated goalies in the league.

 

[larueskee]

I'm a floater that follows many teams and admire some of the petience i see on this board. I thought i would see a lot more frustration over here. Now if I was a life long Maple Leaf fan I'd be flipping out over 5 consecutive first losses with a qualifying loss squeezed in the middle of it all. Sure they did take the 2 time champs to the limit but still. Shanahan hasn't move the team beyond the first round in 9 years on the job. If I had a stake in the team I would can him first thing in the morning.

 

[killer1980]

I'm a floater that follows many teams and admire some of the petience i see on this board. I thought i would see a lot more frustration over here. Now if I was a life long Maple Leaf fan I'd be flipping out over 5 consecutive first losses with a qualifying loss squeezed in the middle of it all. Sure they did take the 2 time champs to the limit but still. Shanahan hasn't move the team beyond the first round in 9 years on the job. If I had a stake in the team I would can him first thing in the morning.

Last 4 times was a disappointment. This one came as no surprise.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I think if you looked throughout all of sports history, not just hockey, you would be hard pressed to find a worse president/gm combination than Shanahan and Dubas.

You could just stay within this organization… Gord stellick, mike smith, Dave nonuts, Brian Burke…. All awful

 

[Nylanderthal]

Did I say that getting maf would have guaranteed us the victory over Tampa?

It appears you either have reading comprehension issues or just enjoy making strawman arguments.



Maybe in the future type what you actually mean and don't get upset when someone takes your post word for word.

Have a good night.

What is your point then? You keep rebutting with “that’s not what I meant” so what did you mean? Who’s this magical solution in net?

 

[Knies iT]

If they trailed the series throughout and fought back the way Tampa did only to lose in game 7, i'd be more on board with dismissing this new flavour of failure. But, 0-9 in close-out games, 0/6 in game 7's (bubble incl.), consistent dips in point production/on-ice performance in game 7's, etc. Multiple opportunities to bury a tired team with injuries to key cogs and they just simply find new ways to fail.

It's a coddled, nerdy locker room environment with a corporate approach to player relations. This is not a room full of dogs. Very tough position moving forward because the problems are systemic and require deep changes (not just players) that will be hard to justify after a record setting regular season and "moral victories". Likely looking at running this back, which is hilarious but hard to argue a better, more realistic route in the short-term that doesn't trim the window.

Smelt this a month or so before playoffs and backed off posting here, so i'm pretty indifferent to the loss. Pending one of the stars walking in free agency, this is one of the worst timelines you could have written for this core.

 

[keonsbitterness]

You could just stay within this organization… Gord stellick, mike smith, Dave nonuts, Brian Burke…. All awful

Poor Gord. Went from bagging groceries at my local Dominion to being manipulated by Harold Ballard in just a few years,

That Mike Smith-Ken Dryden GM arrangement was such a mess. Smith was so awkward speaking to the media.

Burke always thought he was smarter than everyone else. Most times he wasn't.

Nonis had the personality of a snail.

 

[2 Slick]

Considering there were no sweeping changes made after that debacle in the seven game series against Montreal in the bubble where they were up three games to one and embarrassingly lost in game seven on home ice, I expect zero movement or big changes after another disappointing game seven and first round series loss.

Hey, at least we have Petr Mrazek as our starting goaltender next season, that’s something to be excited about, right? RIGHT?!?

I don’t really care about moral victories, individual trophies, regular season accolades, I only care about games that matter. Another first round departure tells me that the status quo isn’t the solution, but you know that’s what they’ll go with it because they’ll say they made great strides in the regular season.

They may change some personnel in fringe players that really aren’t game breaking, but I don’t think they have enough cap space to do anything monumental to move the needle.

I can’t really pinpoint any players that were scapegoats, but I wasn’t overly impressed with Kerfoot, Justin Holl, Engvall, Mikheyev, Kase in the playoffs.

Really interested to see if they make any changes, but I wouldn’t hold my breath realistically.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Considering there were no sweeping changes made after that debacle in the seven game series against Montreal in the bubble where they were up three games to one and embarrassingly lost in game seven on home ice, I expect zero movement or big changes after another disappointing game seven and first round series loss.

Hey, at least we have Petr Mrazek as our starting goaltender next season, that’s something to be excited about, right? RIGHT?!?

I don’t really care about moral victories, individual trophies, regular season accolades, I only care about games that matter. Another first round departure tells me that the status quo isn’t the solution, but you know that’s what they’ll go with it because they’ll say they made great strides in the regular season.

They may change some personnel in fringe players that really aren’t game breaking, but I don’t think they have enough cap space to do anything monumental to move the needle.

I can’t really pinpoint any players that were scapegoats, but I wasn’t overly impressed with Kerfoot, Justin Holl, Engvall, Mikheyev, Kase in the playoffs.

Really interested to see if they make any changes, but I wouldn’t hold my breath realistically.

Mrazek Campbell Holl Muzzin Kase Engvall Mikheyev kerfoot represent 20.7m in cap. Lilly & sandin get marginal raises on bridge deals and step in full time roles. So call it 20m to replace the goalies and change the middle of the forward group.
I don’t think boosh gets more than a 250k bump from his current aav, I expect Gio to get spezza/Simmonds type deals here on out (1.5m-750k) A 6 man group of rielly Brodie gio boosh Sandin & liljegren is a solid base on the back end. It’s definitely doable to mix in a very different look without changing the big 5 skaters.

 

[NJG]

Mrazek Campbell Holl Muzzin Kase Engvall Mikheyev kerfoot represent 20.7m in cap. Lilly & sandin get marginal raises on bridge deals and step in full time roles. So call it 20m to replace the goalies and change the middle of the forward group.
I don’t think boosh gets more than a 250k bump from his current aav, I expect Gio to get spezza/Simmonds type deals here on out (1.5m-750k) A 6 man group of rielly Brodie gio boosh Sandin & liljegren is a solid base on the back end. It’s definitely doable to mix in a very different look without changing the big 5 skaters.

The defense needs to get bigger and more physical. Not smaller and less physical.

 

[Buzzman17]

What changes do you propose they make? They took the two time defending SC champions to 7 games and lost by a goal.

The Leafs are a well built team that has the ability to win a cup. Making a huge shake up move would be the wrong decision. Small improvements where you can make them? Absolutely.

MLSE standing firm and keeping trust in the core + FO would actually be a very smart move. This is the best Leafs team in a long time.

Need to bring in Trotz

I can’t believe how many ppl are okay with losing. Anyone saying run it back is actually an insane person. Six years in a row the same core has lost and there are actually humans amongst us who want to run it back. There are no words. Dubas needs to be fired

Unbelievable. If this was 2004, we would have a Sunday morning press conference to walk out Shanahan Dubas and Keefe. the ownership coddles our players and our fan base. This is a result of the new generation of being safe, and participation trophies. I am disgusted by this team

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

The defense needs to get bigger and more physical. Not smaller and less physical.

It's more complicated then that. Apparently management believes that's what muzzin and holl brings but they both don't have much going on between the ears.

 

[sittler rules!!!]

This whole Matthews going to Arizona is just a joke and a meme right? Even if he really wanted to leave I can't imagine that he'd go to the Yotes where its going to be a bottom team for many years and he's playing in front of fans that only mildly care about the NHL.

I've said it before and I'll say it again that as long as the Leafs are willing to pay him, he will stay. He's playing in perhaps the most passionate hockey market in the NHL with his best buddy Marner as his linemate and on a team that will be competing for many years to come. Why in the world would anyone give up all that just to play in their hometown? You'd have to be insane to do that.

As for anyone's jobs being on the line, I will be pissed if Dubas ever goes. He's easily the Leafs best GM in at least the last 20-30 years and its hard to look back at all his moves and see many bad decisions that he's made in comparison to previous Leafs GM. Playoff hockey is almost always a crapshoot and I don't know how you can fault him for the team's performance that was within a few centimeters of going on to the second round.

Dubas has done all he can to build a really good team and sometimes things just don't bounce your way as we saw tonight. Win or lose I hope he stays and continues to make this team as good as he can and I really don't think there's another GM candidate out there that can do a better job than he has in the past few years to get the Leafs and their prospect pool going in the right direction.

Please Leafs just win on Saturday so that we can put this who might lose their job discussion to a rest.

Thanks Kyle. Glad to see you read these boards.

 

[The Masters]

Something has to give.

Needs to be changes. You gotta revamp the team particulary the D, goalie and 2nd and 4th lines.

just arent good enough no matter how slice it.

Yes we were close but didnt get it done

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Upper management was given 1 last kick at the can after the covid cup debacles.

If this ownership has any balls they'd cut the head of the snake and see where the next management team wants to take it. (Keefe or not, retool, adjust , scorch earth)

Should be plenty of people who want to right this ship; considering the amount of talent.

 

[Dreakmur]

In the big picture, Shanahan and Dubas, along with Lamoriello, did an excellent job turning this franchise from a joke into a one that appears to be very well run. People can pick on a few issues - and I definitely do - but overall it’s been very good. The infrastructure that has been put in place, assuming it is maintained, will ensure this team is good for a long time. The drafting, scout, player development, the use of technology and analytics, the sports performance, etc. puts the leafs in a position to have a steady stream of young talent to supplement their roster every year.

Dubas has made mistakes, mostly in his vision of how a winning team should be built, but he learns something every year and makes improvements. Hopefully, he has learned that under a salary cap, teams are almost forced to build a balanced roster to maximize limited cap space. That necessaritates the trading of either Nylander or Marner. Both good players, but that cap space can be more effectively used on the blueline or in net.

For me, Shanahan should definitely stay. Keefe need to go. I’m not sure about dubas. I think he’s done a good job, but there are two vital changes that need to be made this summer, and I’m not sure he’s willing to make them. Fire Keefe and trade one of the wingers. I want Dubas making those moves, but if he isn’t willing to make them, I think I’d rather have a lesser GM who’s willing to make tough decisions.

 

[Stigma]

In the big picture, Shanahan and Dubas, along with Lamoriello, did an excellent job turning this franchise from a joke into a one that appears to be very well run. People can pick on a few issues - and I definitely do - but overall it’s been very good. The infrastructure that has been put in place, assuming it is maintained, will ensure this team is good for a long time. The drafting, scout, player development, the use of technology and analytics, the sports performance, etc. puts the leafs in a position to have a steady stream of young talent to supplement their roster every year.

Dubas has made mistakes, mostly in his vision of how a winning team should be built, but he learns something every year and makes improvements. Hopefully, he has learned that under a salary cap, teams are almost forced to build a balanced roster to maximize limited cap space. That necessaritates the trading of either Nylander or Marner. Both good players, but that cap space can be more effectively used on the blueline or in net.

For me, Shanahan should definitely stay. Keefe need to go. I’m not sure about dubas. I think he’s done a good job, but there are two vital changes that need to be made this summer, and I’m not sure he’s willing to make them. Fire Keefe and trade one of the wingers. I want Dubas making those moves, but if he isn’t willing to make them, I think I’d rather have a lesser GM who’s willing to make tough decisions.

Yeah, I agree with this.

After a lot of thought, we have to make big changes. Yeah, they played better this time around than the last 2 years, but there is ZERO evidence that this will continue. They also played well in 2019 against the Bruins and then stunk it up for 2 years. It's not enough to "run it back".

Keefe has to go. Lots of good posts in mutliple threads giving specific evidence on how he was outcoached. I mean, one of the big ones is how he can never solve the collapsing-in-front-of-the goalie issue. Year after year.

Dubas won me over this year, but if he is not willing to bring in Trotz, he has to go too. Maybe he should go anyway. He is partially responsible for the mentality of the team and the make-up of the team. Coddling is a philosophy that doesn't work in hockey or in any other aspect of life. He was too young to be a GM and needed life experience to learn more about human nauture. I would love for him to still be involved, but not as GM.

Players? You have to be bold. You have to address needs. Some of the needs include a bomb from the point and tough bottom-6 players who play a strong north/south game and can play in front of the net. They also need a good LW in the top 6. A Bertuzzi type. If this requires a bit of a shake-up, so be it.

All I can say is DO NOT MAINTAIN STAQUS QUO. If you believe in natural law or a living, breathing universe, it's been trying to tell us something for years. The universe (via Lou...lol) also gift-wrapped Trotz to us. Don't blow it.

 

[Byron Bitz]

I think a lot of luck has played into why we havnt won a playoff round and management has done a lot of great things for this organization. They have made us a very good team. That said, this is a results oriented business and the team has not met our minimum standard for playoff success so big changes must get made. I wish Dubas, Keefe and Shanahan the best of luck in their future endevours.

 

[Raging Bull]

Nothing will change.

 

[ToneDog]

I think a lot of luck has played into why we havnt won a playoff round and management has done a lot of great things for this organization. They have made us a very good team. That said, this is a results oriented business and the team has not met our minimum standard for playoff success so big changes must get made. I wish Dubas, Keefe and Shanahan the best of luck in their future endevours.

Team is a regular season juggernaut. Team can beat anybody on any given night, unfortunately you have to win a best of 7 series to win in the playoffs and this management team has come up short too many times. Time to bring in a fresh set of eyes and ideas.

 

[HomelessPepper]

Imagine thinking after 4 first round loses that dubas isn't the problem.

Dubas is in charge of the team. He decides who plays and who coaches.

If the team fails, he fails. If the team wins, he wins.

How many first round loses do we need before you are willing to accept that dubas needs to go?

Dubas has consistently improved this team year over year, despite everything he was saddled with when he started.

This team had everything it needed to win. The failure is on the coach and players.

And just to prevent stupid responses, no, he hasn't been perfect in his job, but that doesn't make him the problem.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Might be better to place this here - big picture theme.

Well, what's the solution for the future then?

Thinking about the window, it's shrinking.

Matthews has a NMC in 2023-24. Would we let him walk and get nothing if it came down to that? Keep the band together and have one (or two) last kicks at the can?

I know people are going to say he'll resign, but we've been saying we have a good team and will have playoff success seemingly forever now too. AM can get north of McDavid money if that's what he wants, and there would be plenty of interest from U.S. teams especially.

I wouldn't want to be Dubas now.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Dubas has consistently improved this team year over year, despite everything he was saddled with when he started.

This team had everything it needed to win. The failure is on the coach and players.

And just to prevent stupid responses, no, he hasn't been perfect in his job, but that doesn't make him the problem.

No he did not improve the team from 18-19 to 19-20. There was definitely a bit of a decline there. Doesn’t matter though because this is a results oriented business. Have his playoff results met your minimum standard over the his 4 years on the job?

 

[Ciao]

The whole World can go to Hell right now. That's all.