How many jobs are on the line?

[Hoglund4MvP]

One doesn't have to look for glaring mistakes.

Nepotism can also occur within organization....It is generally seen as unethical, both on the part of the employer and employee.

You're wrong anyways. Keefe still here next season does qualify as corruption. Can't see how else he still has a job next year besides his connection to Dubas. You're not the president on what qualifies for corruption.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Dubas built a good team that has a monkey on their back.

You want to trade it for a series of lottery tickets.

That's the thing the blow it up contingent don't seem to grasp here.

If you're a team like the 13-14 Sabres or the 14-15 Leafs you blow it up. You blow up a team for lottery tickets when they're bad because the worst that can happen is they stay bad - like the Sabres did. It's very unlikely that a team like Toronto blowing it up would end up in a better spot after the dust settles.

Who said anything about " blowing it up"?

Literally 3 posters have said that.

That's the thing the dubas fan club doesn't seem to understand. Getting rid of dubas doesn't mean we trade all of our skilled players for Colton orrs.

It doesn't mean we tank again.

It means we get a competent gm who can ice a playoff hockey team.

Washington never won until they lost semin and Greene. Sometimes you need to lose a "core" member to win.

 

[TheRumble]

Well said.

Can you imagine the garbage the dubas fan club would be spewing if the Leafs had won?

I mean, they are literally giving the guy credit after his 4th first round loss in a row.

It's because you guys are being dumb and emotional instead of logical.

- Advocating for a full on rebuild, I've seen several people here suggest we go for Connor Bedard next year
- Conjuring scenarios that didn't exist anywhere except your own minds in order to create a scenario where Dubas ddin't take advantage of just so you have a reason to attack the guy
- Retroactively pretending you knew that X and Y were players we never should have traded over A and B.
- Generating strawmen in your heads about people defending Dubas.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

As a big Raptor fan you can tell when your management knows how to create winning teams. They collect players that compliment stars, and have a vision that works better in the playoffs

Masai can build playoff teams, Dubas can't.

Shit, Masai almost toppled the NBA equivalent of the Leafs (the Embiid 76ers) with one rebuilding year (after his franchise player left).

I'd be trading some of the big boys, re-load.

Bring in a GM that can identify 2-way talent. That's what wins.

Building an NBA team is drastically different than building an NHL team. If this was the NBA, we would have made it a lot further by now. Winning a round in the NBA is practically a given (outside of the 4/5 matchups) based on how it is structured. There are rarely upsets, and rarely underdogs, because it is predicated on accumulating the right high end stars with a few key depth guys around them. Short of a historic choke job, the top 3 teams in each conference win practically every time as a result.

The NHL requires a well-crafted team from top-to-bottom, and they artificially manufacture parity through sketchy reffing and a hard cap. The Leafs are a by-the-book team playing in a league which tries to prop up weak markets rather than promoting their top ones... So even being "not by-the-book" can result in us getting shafted too. It requires a lot more than just adding stars and playing with a broken cap system. It requires overcoming things not in your control and a heck of a lot of luck to break through the parity while playing at your best.

 

[colchar]

As a big Raptor fan you can tell when your management knows how to create winning teams. They collect players that compliment stars, and have a vision that works better in the playoffs

Masai can build playoff teams, Dubas can't.

Shit, Masai almost toppled the NBA equivalent of the Leafs (the Embiid 76ers) with one rebuilding year (after his franchise player left).

I'd be trading some of the big boys, re-load.

Bring in a GM that can identify 2-way talent. That's what wins.

Does Masai know anything about hockey? I mean he's already on the payroll right?

Nepotism can also occur within organization....It is generally seen as unethical, both on the part of the employer and employee.

You're wrong anyways. Keefe still here next season does qualify as corruption. Can't see how else he still has a job next year besides his connection to Dubas. You're not the president on what qualifies for corruption.

You don't get to make up meanings for words.

Can you PM me your address so that I can send you a dictionary? When you receive it, look up the definition of 'corruption' and maybe then you'll stop embarrassing yourself.

 

[Stamkos4life]

People who say Dubas could've done different well we'd like to know what these people would've done differently that would've guaranteed a game 7 win against the Lightning? Hypothetically if you traded Tavares, is whatever players we can sign with his capspace going to make us significantly better to the point of being near guaranteed of getting out of the 1st round? Probably not.

There's few sports in the world that are so luck based as hockey is where you can have a great team top to bottom and still lose in the first round of the playoffs because the other team had a hot goalie stopping everything.

Unlike previous years, the Leafs actually played really good if not great against Tampa most games. They were literally a few bad puck luck chances away in game 6 from changing the narrative and getting to the 2nd round. I don't know what player changes would've changed that luck so that the Leafs scored in game 6 OT. In game 7 the game was close and again Leafs were a few unfortunate bounces away from tying the game.

The Leafs played well enough to win 5 of the 7 games against Tampa. The Bolts were just abit luckier in game 6 and 7 than the Leafs. It sad that they lost, but its not like last year where they were a vastly worse team in game 7. This year they played their best and came up slightly short. It sucks but the Bolts had abit more luck in game 6 and 7 than we did. That's pretty much it.

So after 4 years of first round loses under dubas, it's all bad luck and voodoo?

Like I said, give me 500k a year, millions in resources and access to other teams and I'll give you answers.

The fact people who dislike dubas can't solve the Leafs problems from their computer with zero resources does not excuse dubas' failures.

If we lose in the first round one more time, will that be enough for you to accept that dubas needs to go?

 

[saffronleaf]

I think this core / management / coach will probably be allowed to run it back another 10x. After 16 straight first round exits and the core retiring hopefully change will be on the horizon.

 

[Stamkos4life]

At no point did I say he wasn't at fault. But no goalies were available so why cry about something about which nothing could be done?




You clearly don't understand what 'corruption' means.

My apologies then, I misunderstood.

But Maf was literally traded at the deadline. 5+ other goalies were traded. Dubas could've also solved our goalie problem before then.

He is definitely at fault for our goalie situation.

 

[saffronleaf]

So after 4 years of first round loses under dubas, it's all bad luck and voodoo?

Like I said, give me 500k a year, millions in resources and access to other teams and I'll give you answers.

The fact people who dislike dubas can't solve the Leafs problems from their computer with zero resources does not excuse dubas' failures.

If we lose in the first round one more time, will that be enough for you to accept that dubas needs to go?

it will never be enough.

 

[TheRumble]

It means we get a competent gm who can ice a playoff hockey team.

Washington never won until they lost semin and Greene. Sometimes you need to lose a "core" member to win.

Mike Green left in free agency, the Caps were willing to run it back with him even after their team underperformed and missed the playoffs with him the year before.

Ditto with Semin. The Caps were willing to run it back with him, he just chose to chase the money when his deal expired.

And they still needed a coaching change + five years.

 

[colchar]

My apologies then, I misunderstood.

Fair enough.

But Maf was literally traded at the deadline.

And what, exactly, did he accomplish?

5+ other goalies were traded.

Which of them would have been an upgrade and what price would they have had to pay?

Dubas could've also solved our goalie problem before then.

He tried, but as so often happens with him he failed.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Can I just get what your level of education is so I don't have to waste my time explaining this to you again?

Trading a member of the core=blowing it up.

If you didn't advocate for this, I'm not referring to you.

Lmao

Trading one of the "core" is not "blowing it up".

Getting rid of dubas is also not "blowing it up".

I'm not sure what level of education you have but I wouldn't be calling others dumb if I were you.

 

[keonsbitterness]

How many first round loses do we need with dubas as gm before you accept that he needs to go?

He only said Dubas will not go, not whether he needs to go.

Trading all or most of the core is blowing it up. Trading one piece is not blowing it up.

Depends. Trading one piece for picks is blowing it up, or at the very least a message to the rest of the core that we're no longer in win-now mode..

 

[TheRumble]

My apologies then, I misunderstood.

But Maf was literally traded at the deadline. 5+ other goalies were traded. Dubas could've also solved our goalie problem before then.

He is definitely at fault for our goalie situation.

The Five Goalies traded at the deadline:

Scott Wedgewood, Marc Andre Fleury, Andrew Hammond, Carter Hutton and Darcy Kuemper. I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you know that three of those goalies are not an upgrade over Campbell.

MAF - Debatable but it was leaked that the ask for him was pretty high - Knies and a 1st.

Darcy Keumper - Colorado gave up a 1st and Connor Timmins for him (I have no idea how good Timmins is).

 

[colchar]

Depends. Trading one piece for picks is blowing it up, or at the very least a message to the rest of the core that we're no longer in win-now mode..

Only if they hang on to those picks. They could trade a piece of the core for picks and then flip or package those picks for pieces that can play now.

 

[TheRumble]

He only said Dubas will not go, not whether he needs to go.

Depends. Trading one piece for picks is blowing it up, or at the very least a message to the rest of the core that we're no longer in win-now mode..

No according to these geniuses, Marner is just an easily replacable depth piece.

 

[Stamkos4life]

If ownership wants a new gm without actually changing the makeup of the team, then no I don't want a new GM.

Tavares has a NMC.

Okay, so solution is to trade either the MVP or the best Leaf in the series.. I see.

I enjoy the cop out though. It's fine to say you are frustrated and want to see someone fired. Let's not pretend there's any rationale behind it.

I've been telling people since 2019 that dubas isn't a very good gm.

The fact it is now 2022, we have 4 consecutive first round loses and you are telling me that you don't want dubas fired no matter how many more times we fail to win a round is mind boggling.

Are you saying that no player has ever been traded while on a nmc? I call bull.

Im not sure if you are aware but good players can be traded for other good players. This does happen in the NHL.

The defintion of insane is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Well, you certainly fit the exact defintion.

But it's clear you are just a dubas fan boy and not an actual leaf fan so I'm done wasting my time on you. A real fan wants his team to win. Not continue losing.

 

[rocketman588]

I forgot were giving Riley 7.5 until he's 39

Jesus do we never learn

 

[colchar]

No according to these geniuses, Marner is just an easily replacable depth piece.

Show us the post where that was said.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Only if they hang on to those picks. They could trade a piece of the core for picks and then flip or package those picks for pieces that can play now.

They could, but my scenario is hanging on to those pick.

 

[uncleben]

My apologies then, I misunderstood.

But Maf was literally traded at the deadline. 5+ other goalies were traded. Dubas could've also solved our goalie problem before then.

He is definitely at fault for our goalie situation.

Again, no good goalies were available.
Fleury is arguable at best, and his acquisition would've meant no Giordano

The other goalies to move were Melnichuk, Clang, McNiven, Hammond, Kähkönen, and Wedgewood, and if you want to reach back as far as the month lead up to the deadline, Stalock and Hutton (Hutton of course being one we actually did acquire). The only FA goaltending signings were Desrosiers, Gauthier, and Sateri (again, one we we did try on).

So, the only goalies on the move were replacement level AHL goalies (that we did acquire anyway), midtier prospects (who aren't NHL ready), and one 37 year old vet who didn't put up numbers or results better than what we had, and already had a team outbidding us a price that already didn't make sense.


I understanding wanting the best goaltending possible, but a trade for it was just not in the cards. It doesn't matter if it was 5+ or 31+ available if that was the quality available

 

[Stamkos4life]

You clearly don't understand what a no movement clause is.




Trading Matthews would be monumentally stupid. And while I can see a case for trading Marner, Matthews wouldn't be happy about that so best to keep him happy.

Trade Nylander instead.

I feel it is you who does not understand a nmc.

Like I said, I would see if trading jt is possible. Obviously he can say no but many players have been traded even though they have a nmc. I'm not sure if you were aware of this.

Matthews has a nmc as well in his final year which is only 2 years away. There is a chance he decides he doesn't want to resign or be traded in his final year. I don't know about you, but I'm not interested in losing him for nothing.

 

[colchar]

I feel it is you who does not understand a nmc.

Like I said, I would see if trading jt is possible. Obviously he can say no but many players have been traded even though they have a nmc. I'm not sure if you were aware of this.

Matthews has a nmc as well in his final year which is only 2 years away. There is a chance he decides he doesn't want to resign or be traded in his final year. I don't know about you, but I'm not interested in losing him for nothing.

You said you "would get rid of JT", you said nothing about seeing if it was possible.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Yes, because replacing Campbell with Clang, McNiven, Kahkonen, or Wedgewood really would have fixed this team.
Even Fleury, I can understand the temptation, but he's not his old self and was eliminated in even fewer games than Campbell.

Hard to believe you genuinely thought the poster meant "literally no goalies available" instead of "no goalies that would be a clear upgrade available"

The poster said:

"Who would you have gotten, and how? There was nobody available"

"Nobody available" would suggest that there were no goalies on the market. That was false.

If the poster meant "no goalies that would be a clear upgrade available", they should have said that.

Maf still posted a better sv% than Campbell and all we needed was 1 less goal against in game 6.

Also, who says dubas could've only made a trade at the deadline? He has been gm for 4 years now. There have been dozens of goalies traded in that time span.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I feel it is you who does not understand a nmc.

Like I said, I would see if trading jt is possible. Obviously he can say no but many players have been traded even though they have a nmc. I'm not sure if you were aware of this.

Matthews has a nmc as well in his final year which is only 2 years away. There is a chance he decides he doesn't want to resign or be traded in his final year. I don't know about you, but I'm not interested in losing him for nothing.

They'll start informal talks with the Matthews camp next Spring. He'll be traded before July 1 if he tells the Leafs he's not interested.