How many jobs are on the line?

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If they lose tonight I'd clean house, Dubas, Keefe, maybe even Shanahan. Mind you I would've for sure done so after the Montreal loss too. What Tampa would do the rest of the playoffs is irrelevant, I don't care if they get swept by Florida or win the cup. No playoff series wins after this long would be unacceptable (it is after last year already).

The big 4 have basically handcuffed this team. As much as I question Matthews desire to win (as opposed to going to hangout with Bieber after the season ends) you don't win a trade when moving a player of that stature, and to a lesser extent ditto for Marner. Although if a team was willing to give up significant assets I'd move Marner.

Tavares may be slightly overpaid, but even if you can find a team that can take him and he's willing to go, you're immediately looking for a near PPG forward to replace him. The team has nobody that could adequately replace him as 2C, they would need to use assets and cap space to acquire one. I know he's the popular scapegoat right now but what are you going to do? Dump him for nothing, and then spend assets and roughly $8m in cap to replace him? Thats a lot of work to save only $3m.

Nylander as soft as he is, is still the only one of the 4 that outproduces his cap hit. He'd be the most likely candidate to go if it means bringing in a Brayden Schenn or Tom Wilson type player, or a real #1 d-man. His cap hit and production should make him valuable in a trade.

Where Dubas has failed is how he's insulated this group. Zero toughness amongst the remaining 8 forwards and its shown again these playoffs. Nobody is scared of Simmonds and Clifford, because while they might be tough they're massive liabilities when it comes to playing hockey. Teams laugh at the Leafs bringing them out and wasting two roster spots. They need at least 3-4 forwards in the middle 6 who can play hockey and play physical. And they need a real shutdown C. Kampf is nice, but ideally you want him as a 4C and someone better as your 3C. A Jordan Staal type. But instead Dubas has guys like Mikeyev, Engvall, Kase and Kerfoot.

The defence lacks a true #1 as much as I love Rielly, and again Dubas has ignored goaltending. Campbell is a fine 1B but everyone else Dubas has brought in hasn't amounted to much. And ultimately even if the players don't have what it takes to win, thats on the GM who assembled the group

I agree with most of what you've written.

If you look at the last 5 deciding games, Matthews has 2 points and marner has 1 (Nylander 3). You have to believe this lack of production in the deciding games are indicative of them being young or them being unable to handle the pressure.

It would be nice to have a true number one, but we have to hope Sandin and Liljegren are good enough to cover up for that lacking piece. I don't see a #1 in their future, nor a means to acquire one. I also feel there are very few true number defenders that can be that after moving from team to team.

If they had a proven starter perhaps they'd have been fighting for home ice in every round, but Campbell is unreliable. Excellent to below average from game to game.

Goaltending might be the one piece that determines many futures on this current team.

Time for the double digits to show up when everything is on the line.
 
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I'd clean house.

Yes it sounds dramatic, but it's become clear already that this management group has misjudged the NHL at playoff time, and at the draft table. They have been playing catchup, cleanup, patch-up ever since. I don't think this can be dismissed.

Need to show some urgency while the Leafs still have Auston Matthews on the roster.
 
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No management job should be on the line. This mgmt team is great.

If the team comes out flat or we get out coached, Keefe could be in danger but I doubt it.

The only player that is at risk if they play poorly is Jack.
 
I'd clean house.

Yes it sounds dramatic, but it's become clear already that this management group has misjudged the NHL at playoff time, and at the draft table. They have been playing catchup, cleanup, patch-up ever since. I don't think this can be dismissed.

Need to show some urgency while the Leafs still have Auston Matthews on the roster.

The draft table? really? there are a lot of issues I wouldn't say drafting is chief among them.
 
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No management job should be on the line. This mgmt team is great.

If the team comes out flat or we get out coached, Keefe could be in danger but I doubt it.

The only player that is at risk if they play poorly is Jack.
So how many more years of doing nothing is acceptable?
 
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None we have a team that finished 4th in the league and we are going into game 7 against the back to back defending Cup champs. Easy to screw that up and end up worse.
 
Fully understand the disappointment if we lose, and trust me I would be there as well.

But this would have to be evaluated using our head and not our heart. What would any of us have done differently this year? Kyle and the management team put the Leafs in the best situation to win. This team is extremely good, win or lose, and to make change for the sake of change would be a mistake.

I've seen everything we have wanted to see from the team in this series so far. We have been the better team, against the reigning 2 time champions.

This is a championship calibre team. Stick with it.
Get a goalie that's what I'd do different anyway
 
None we have a team that finished 4th in the league and we are going into game 7 against the back to back defending Cup champs. Easy to screw that up and end up worse.
Good point and if there is one team that could pull off the bolded it's the Leafs.
 
So you already have an excuse if the lose
Last year - lost to.the SC finalists
Year before lost to a team we were tied with and Goalied
Both years prior also lost in embarrassing gutless fashion


Somewhere Zeke is hard
Not an excuse, no one’s saying it’s okay. It’s just facts. Did the habs not go all the way to the finals after beating us? Did Boston not go to game 7 in 2019? Were the jackets and leafs not tied when the bubble playoffs happened?
Are the bolts not b2b champs?
 
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If they lose tonight I'd clean house, Dubas, Keefe, maybe even Shanahan. Mind you I would've for sure done so after the Montreal loss too. What Tampa would do the rest of the playoffs is irrelevant, I don't care if they get swept by Florida or win the cup. No playoff series wins after this long would be unacceptable (it is after last year already).

The big 4 have basically handcuffed this team. As much as I question Matthews desire to win (as opposed to going to hangout with Bieber after the season ends) you don't win a trade when moving a player of that stature, and to a lesser extent ditto for Marner. Although if a team was willing to give up significant assets I'd move Marner.

Tavares may be slightly overpaid, but even if you can find a team that can take him and he's willing to go, you're immediately looking for a near PPG forward to replace him. The team has nobody that could adequately replace him as 2C, they would need to use assets and cap space to acquire one. I know he's the popular scapegoat right now but what are you going to do? Dump him for nothing, and then spend assets and roughly $8m in cap to replace him? Thats a lot of work to save only $3m.

Nylander as soft as he is, is still the only one of the 4 that outproduces his cap hit. He'd be the most likely candidate to go if it means bringing in a Brayden Schenn or Tom Wilson type player, or a real #1 d-man. His cap hit and production should make him valuable in a trade.

Where Dubas has failed is how he's insulated this group. Zero toughness amongst the remaining 8 forwards and its shown again these playoffs. Nobody is scared of Simmonds and Clifford, because while they might be tough they're massive liabilities when it comes to playing hockey. Teams laugh at the Leafs bringing them out and wasting two roster spots. They need at least 3-4 forwards in the middle 6 who can play hockey and play physical. And they need a real shutdown C. Kampf is nice, but ideally you want him as a 4C and someone better as your 3C. A Jordan Staal type. But instead Dubas has guys like Mikeyev, Engvall, Kase and Kerfoot.

The defence lacks a true #1 as much as I love Rielly, and again Dubas has ignored goaltending. Campbell is a fine 1B but everyone else Dubas has brought in hasn't amounted to much. And ultimately even if the players don't have what it takes to win, thats on the GM who assembled the group

Where Dubas potentially failed isn't in insulating the forward group, or the defense that's deeper than it's been in decades, possibly ever.

Where Dubas has potentially failed is the goaltending Jack Campbell has been WELL below average since December and Dubas sat on his ass. I'd be OK with Dubas coming back but I'd tell him don't touch the core and he HAS to go get a #1 goalie, a REAL, PROVEN #1 goalie.

That means Varlamov, Fluery, Gibson, Lehner address it properly Campbell is a backup and that's fine but he's not a legitimate #1
 
My issue is they haven't played close to cup champion level. They've only played at a caliber to beat us in one full game, and the rest is just in spurts. We already gave them a freebie with weird line decisions in game 4 that made us not able to get in the game and build any momentum.

This is a dream setup any team can ask for against tampa. Vasi sucks. Their core sucks. This is the ugliest I've ever seen kucherov point and stamkos play. And here we are stuck in another game 7.

You have to admit you are at least curious what someone like Trotz can do if he got his hands on this team.


No word on why fired so I am hoping it because trotz is progressive and didn't mesh with dinosaur lou any more.
I have no interest in trotz stifiling the forward group and turning these guys into the islanders. I’m open to conversations about changing things up but don’t see trotz as a solution.
He drove Barzal to the brink he’ll do it to our guys.
If a Bruce Cassidy in Boston or mike Sullivan in pitt shake free I’m open to it, but I think Sheldon has done a good job and has grown into the role nicely.

Where Dubas potentially failed isn't in insulating the forward group, or the defense that's deeper than it's been in decades, possibly ever.

Where Dubas has potentially failed is the goaltending Jack Campbell has been WELL below average since December and Dubas sat on his ass. I'd be OK with Dubas coming back but I'd tell him don't touch the core and he HAS to go get a #1 goalie, a REAL, PROVEN #1 goalie.

That means Varlamov, Fluery, Gibson, Lehner address it properly Campbell is a backup and that's fine but he's not a legitimate #1
Flower rode pine watching his team bow out in 6, the rest weren’t available. I agree with you going forward that the goaltending is where they need to focus. Just didn’t see a solution this year
 
Not an excuse, no one’s saying it’s okay. It’s just facts. Did the habs not go all the way to the finals after beating us? Did Boston not go to game 7 in 2019? Were the jackets and leafs not tied when the bubble playoffs happened?
Are the bolts not b2b champs?
Means nothing
CBJ beat TB
An expansion team has done more in the playoffs then the Leafs have in decades
If this is such a good team they should be able to beat anyone
Or more excuses....
 
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I have no interest in trotz stifiling the forward group and turning these guys into the islanders. I’m open to conversations about changing things up but don’t see trotz as a solution.
He drove Barzal to the brink he’ll do it to our guys.
If a Bruce Cassidy in Boston or mike Sullivan in pitt shake free I’m open to it, but I think Sheldon has done a good job and has grown into the role nicely.


Flower rode pine watching his team bow out in 6, the rest weren’t available. I agree with you going forward that the goaltending is where they need to focus. Just didn’t see a solution this year

Yes the wild did make the stupid decision to bench Flower and it cost them and now the parise/Suter buyout money hits
 
Means nothing
CBJ beat TB
An expansion team has done more in the playoffs then the Leafs have in decades
If this is such a good team they should be able to beat anyone
Or more excuses....
That expansion team went to the finals in their first year… that’s unprecedented in NA pro sports aside from when the nhl when from 6 to 12 and ensured a expansion finalist. Since their inception they’ve done more than 90% of the league, so what?
These Leafs are capable of beating any team, as of right now they’re tied 3-3 in an incredibly hard fought series with the twice defending cup champs, after getting some brutal breaks both self inflicted and by the refs.
Throwing away everything cause we’re upset over results doesn’t mean the process is wrong.
There’s always going to be turnover to the roster and probably a piece or two in management or coaching/development, but there’s no need for drastic changes to how this organization is ran.

Yes the wild did make the stupid decision to bench Flower and it cost them and now the parise/Suter buyout money hits
Dean evason has done a great job with that team in consecutive regular seasons and had less than desirable playoff success so far, should he be shown the door tomorrow?
You think Talbot cost them the series and flower would’ve made the difference?
 
That expansion team went to the finals in their first year… that’s unprecedented in NA pro sports aside from when the nhl when from 6 to 12 and ensured a expansion finalist. Since their inception they’ve done more than 90% of the league, so what?
These Leafs are capable of beating any team, as of right now they’re tied 3-3 in an incredibly hard fought series with the twice defending cup champs, after getting some brutal breaks both self inflicted and by the refs.
Throwing away everything cause we’re upset over results doesn’t mean the process is wrong.
There’s always going to be turnover to the roster and probably a piece or two in management or coaching/development, but there’s no need for drastic changes to how this organization is ran.


Dean evason has done a great job with that team in consecutive regular seasons and had less than desirable playoff success so far, should he be shown the door tomorrow?
You think Talbot cost them the series and flower would’ve made the difference?
Yeah if they do go out I don't want major changes, but I think Dubas would need to sit down and see if his vision still aligns with Shanny et al. 88 would probably need to go, Keefe buh bye.
 
That expansion team went to the finals in their first year… that’s unprecedented in NA pro sports aside from when the nhl when from 6 to 12 and ensured a expansion finalist. Since their inception they’ve done more than 90% of the league, so what?
These Leafs are capable of beating any team, as of right now they’re tied 3-3 in an incredibly hard fought series with the twice defending cup champs, after getting some brutal breaks both self inflicted and by the refs.
Throwing away everything cause we’re upset over results doesn’t mean the process is wrong.
There’s always going to be turnover to the roster and probably a piece or two in management or coaching/development, but there’s no need for drastic changes to how this organization is ran.


Dean evason has done a great job with that team in consecutive regular seasons and had less than desirable playoff success so far, should he be shown the door tomorrow?
You think Talbot cost them the series and flower would’ve made the difference?

If you can get better then you should do it and Bary Trotz is available.

I think Flower is an established #1 and Talbot has flippef back and forth, I think you go with the established, proven, hall of fame #1 goalie.

and yes 3 cups and Vezina means Fluery is in the Hall of fame
 
The problem is three 11 million dollar forwards. The vast majority of teams have ZERO 11 million dollar forwards. Only ONE team has 2 (McDrai averages out to about 11 mil each). And they have similar struggles as us.

And then there's the leafs. THREE 11 million dollar forwards.

If thy lose today, Dubas will be pressured into doing something. But I doubt he'll address the real problem. Three 11 million dollar forwards. He's stuck with Tavares. Matthews is Matthews. And Dubas will be too scared to trade Marner. So it will be a band-aide solution. Trading Nylander (the best contract of the 4) for some help on the back end.. But it won't be nearly enough.

Nylander has been as good and better than the the three 11 million guys over this playoffs and last..... he's the one guy that at 7 million you are happy with his contributions. You move him and your unlikely to replace him with someone more valuable than he was for his salary.

It comes down to Marner and Tavares..... Marner has not been good for 4 playoffs (depending on the outcome of today of course). Look what 9 million Makar did this year and in these playoffs, and look at the 4 assist night 9.5 million Fox had. We need our 11 million dollar player to step up and we have patiently waited 4 years for it to happen (3rd at 11 million). Hopefully it's today.

But yes maybe before trading him we should try a different coach.
 
If anyone wants to see the danger of overreacting just look at the Los Angeles Lakers.
 
Can you explain, I don't watch basketball.
They had a good team last year but ran into injury issues in the second half lost in the first round and blew up the roster to only become a significantly worse team with some of the decisions made.

Keep in mind that the leafs are a really good team and the lightning are a really good team. Losing to them in 7 is not the worse thing. But making rash decisions in the heat of the moment can end up making the team significantly worse.

I'm not against changes but they should make sense.
 
Can you explain, I don't watch basketball.

They won a championship in 2020 with a superstar dou of Lebron James and Anthony Davis.

then they tried to make it a big 3 with adding Russell Westbrook and boy did it fail SPECTACULARLY they missed the playoffs in 2022 because the LA Lakers completely sold their future and depth.
 
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