How many jobs are on the line?

[BrannigansLaw]

That’s it for me as well. He’s had enough chances to get the team over the hump. Time for someone else to give it a try.

Barry Trotz it is

 

[HamiltonNHL]

> Jobs on the line ?

Q: how profitable are the Leafs ?

A: Profits are good, literally the .org doesn't care.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

This is the most well balanced Leaf team literally in decades. Top 3 offensive in every relevant category, top 10 in defense is every relevant category.

And what have they won?

 

[ACC1224]

> Jobs on the line ?

Q: how profitable are the Leafs ?

A: Profits are good, literally the .org doesn't care.

That’s very naive to think they don’t care. One thing I know about rich people is they all want to be richer.

 

[BeLeafing]

Fully understand the disappointment if we lose, and trust me I would be there as well.

But this would have to be evaluated using our head and not our heart. What would any of us have done differently this year? Kyle and the management team put the Leafs in the best situation to win. This team is extremely good, win or lose, and to make change for the sake of change would be a mistake.

I've seen everything we have wanted to see from the team in this series so far. We have been the better team, against the reigning 2 time champions.

This is a championship calibre team. Stick with it.

 

[ToneDog]

Roll over like in all 3 elimination games under Dubas and Leaf nation will want it's pound of flesh. I'd hate to move 16 or 88 so I'd be OK running it back but with Trotz at the helm. Failing that, as Elmer Fudd said, "be very careful".

 

[Stamkos4life]

That’s it for me as well. He’s had enough chances to get the team over the hump. Time for someone else to give it a try.

Shanny has been president here for 8 years.

Dubas has been here for 8 years and gm for 4.

You think both deserve to keep their jobs?

I think most employees would be fired after failing that many years in a row.

But somehow these two continue getting free passes.

 

[authentic]

Fully understand the disappointment if we lose, and trust me I would be there as well.

But this would have to be evaluated using our head and not our heart. What would any of us have done differently this year? Kyle and the management team put the Leafs in the best situation to win. This team is extremely good, win or lose, and to make change for the sake of change would be a mistake.

I've seen everything we have wanted to see from the team in this series so far. We have been the better team, against the reigning 2 time champions.

This is a championship calibre team. Stick with it.

Yep this is basically what everyone has to realize. At this point there isn't much reason to have the same disappointment as in years past. We have been the better team and our best players have been better, heck we've even had better goaltending for the most part. Powerplays have been the only reason it's 3-3 and it's really unfortunate but we have a good chance tonight so just lay it all on the line and feel better about this team going forward win or lose.

 

[ACC1224]

Shanny has been president here for 8 years.

Dubas has been here for 8 years and gm for 4.

You think both deserve to keep their jobs?

I think most employees would be fired after failing that many years in a row.

But somehow these two continue getting free passes.

After Dubas earlier issues I think he’s put together a pretty good team. It’s time for a better coach to take the next step

 

[killer1980]

If Leafs lose and they keep Dubas another year, he will tie as the longest serving GM in the last 25+ years with really nothing to show for it. It always amazes me how the old farts in business gravitate to the next boy genius. Seems a new boy wonder comes along every few years. Trouble is, I have seen so many over my long career and only two actually knew what they were doing. If Leafs lose Dubas should be gone. A loss makes him no better than Nonis or Fergie Jr.

 

[JKG33]

If they lose tonight I'd clean house, Dubas, Keefe, maybe even Shanahan. Mind you I would've for sure done so after the Montreal loss too. What Tampa would do the rest of the playoffs is irrelevant, I don't care if they get swept by Florida or win the cup. No playoff series wins after this long would be unacceptable (it is after last year already).

The big 4 have basically handcuffed this team. As much as I question Matthews desire to win (as opposed to going to hangout with Bieber after the season ends) you don't win a trade when moving a player of that stature, and to a lesser extent ditto for Marner. Although if a team was willing to give up significant assets I'd move Marner.

Tavares may be slightly overpaid, but even if you can find a team that can take him and he's willing to go, you're immediately looking for a near PPG forward to replace him. The team has nobody that could adequately replace him as 2C, they would need to use assets and cap space to acquire one. I know he's the popular scapegoat right now but what are you going to do? Dump him for nothing, and then spend assets and roughly $8m in cap to replace him? Thats a lot of work to save only $3m.

Nylander as soft as he is, is still the only one of the 4 that outproduces his cap hit. He'd be the most likely candidate to go if it means bringing in a Brayden Schenn or Tom Wilson type player, or a real #1 d-man. His cap hit and production should make him valuable in a trade.

Where Dubas has failed is how he's insulated this group. Zero toughness amongst the remaining 8 forwards and its shown again these playoffs. Nobody is scared of Simmonds and Clifford, because while they might be tough they're massive liabilities when it comes to playing hockey. Teams laugh at the Leafs bringing them out and wasting two roster spots. They need at least 3-4 forwards in the middle 6 who can play hockey and play physical. And they need a real shutdown C. Kampf is nice, but ideally you want him as a 4C and someone better as your 3C. A Jordan Staal type. But instead Dubas has guys like Mikeyev, Engvall, Kase and Kerfoot.

The defence lacks a true #1 as much as I love Rielly, and again Dubas has ignored goaltending. Campbell is a fine 1B but everyone else Dubas has brought in hasn't amounted to much. And ultimately even if the players don't have what it takes to win, thats on the GM who assembled the group

 

[Nylanderthal]

It's shameful that we've resorted to talking about changes before the biggest game of the year, but this is how many years in the making now? And frankly even if we win G7, but go on to lose next round changes are needed.

Way easier & less risky to shakeup management than the roster (ie. salaries, term, the cap, NTCs/NMCs, etc.). The Keefe experiment has run its course. Bring in a guy with a solid defensive system and let the offensive stars take care of scoring. Make the team harder to play against. Trotz should be on speed dial. (2017-18 Capitals anyone?)

JT, Simmonds, Reilly, Brodie & Muzzin have NMC/NTCs, so they aren't going anywhere. Maybe Holl and Kerfoot are moved for cap space and playing time for the youngsters. Plus, Dubas has been reshaping the roster around the core year after year. That being said, mayyyyyybe Nylander, or Marner (less likely) get moved? We also cant get much better than Campbell in net with our current cap situation either. But, I think a new HC & new system would help (and a 1B who isn't Mrazek to carry some of the load during the season).

Dubas would be the league's best assistant GM wouldn't he? Seems to hit on most draft picks (time will tell) & FA's, but also got taken to the cleaners by player/agents and other GM's (ie. Marner contract, & convo with Jarmo for Foligno trade in All or Nothing series was cringeworthy). Dont care if he stays or goes, maybe he goes for the sake of a shake-up.

Shanahan. Uhm. Shanaplan not going according to plan? Been what, 8 years? But very much meh. What else can he do? Maybe this is the year he shakes things up by letting go of KD & SK? Very much a whatever.

Keefe, as mentioned, has to go. Just seems like such a whiner. Not the traditional demanding, motivational leader of a coach. Watching All or Nothing series really brought that out. Players need a guy who will make them go through walls for the team. A guy who players believe has their backs at all times. The fact that he even answered the media member who asked him why he played his worst defensemen the after G4 was appalling. If you take a look at all the coaches who won the Cup since the lockout, there is certainly a theme on the "type", and Keefe just doesn't fit the bill. They are all (mostly) well spoken, respected, leaders with good systems who get the most out of their "teams". I would love Trotz. If not, am I the only one who thinks a reunion with Paul Maurice might work? I think he might have learned a bit after stepping away from the Jets, plus I think he was consistently getting the Jets to overperform(ish).


Time to take care of them demons and get a big convincing DUB Saturday night.

You want to replace a guy who took a bottom quarter ranked D and made them a top third defensive outfit? The biggest change the team has made under Sheldon is how much more competent they are in their own zone.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I'd like to see Bettman get the axe. This sport has become a circus now under his watch.

Regardless of the outcome, I will at the very least be boycotting the regular season next year. I mkght catch the odd Saturday game for a period or two, but I feel like a fool watching this sport

"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice (ten times?), shame on me"

Yet here you are making post after post. Give up the ruse, no one’s buying it

That’s it for me as well. He’s had enough chances to get the team over the hump. Time for someone else to give it a try.

This was his first full season with a training camp and he smashed club records, now in the post season he currently has them neck to neck with the twice defending cup champs.

 

[ToneDog]

Shanny has been president here for 8 years.

Dubas has been here for 8 years and gm for 4.

You think both deserve to keep their jobs?

I think most employees would be fired after failing that many years in a row.

But somehow these two continue getting free passes.

Believe it is because they look so good in those matching hats. LOL

 

[MarnerElite]

It took a long time but Dubas deserves some credit for building a team good enough to win(and i say that as someone who hasn't said almost anything positive about him). I do think that JT was a bad signing just in terms of the amount(he's good but nowhere near 11+ mil good...these few games do not change that for me). The only thing i don't like right now is how coach seems to like sticking to the same lines that imo aren't ideal(same guys keep screwing up and yet he doesn't want more younger, faster, more skilled players to get a chance)....

I don't understand why this is as we could have used better puck moving dmen in some of our games(we aren't going to beat Tampa by hanging back and defending and Holl isn't going to be that guy preventing any of their star players from scoring)....But this roster for most part is quite good(you can always improve the d a bit more, same with forward depth, etc).

 

[ShaneFalco]

Yet here you are making post after post. Give up the ruse, no one’s buying it


This was his first full season with a training camp and he smashed club records, now in the post season he currently has them neck to neck with the twice defending cup champs.

So you already have an excuse if the lose
Last year - lost to.the SC finalists
Year before lost to a team we were tied with and Goalied
Both years prior also lost in embarrassing gutless fashion

Believe it is because they look so good in those matching hats. LOL

View attachment 546499

Somewhere Zeke is hard

 

[TheRumble]

And what have they won?

Nothing.

So your solution is to blow it up and reset and you think that's a better solution than to run it back.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Dubas will be fired if the Leafs lose in the 1st round again, as he well should.

 

[seventieslord]

And even that ignores that the Leafs were terrible for a long time, with periodic stretches of being good. Since the NHL implemented the draft, the Leafs have had exactly TWO #1 overalls. Do the "blow it up and reabuild" crowd realize that there's a good chance it's another 30 years before we see another #1? And that could just as easily be a Patrik Stefan?

Further to this:

The Leafs have managed to get two #1 overall picks ever, and the only other time besides Matthews, the consensus generational no-brainer, it almost couldn't have gone worse.

Wendel was my favourite player growing up, but look at any draft from 1979 on - out of all the players who actually panned out, he's probably the worst #1 overall pick in 43 drafts.

Like any draft where the 1st overall ends up to be "meh, pretty good", you can pinpoint better players. Nieuwendyk for sure. Calle Johansson, Sean Burke and Mike Richter, probably. After that it gets really muddy. Dahlen, Simpson, Manson, Olausson, Larionov, all maybes, and that's pretty much it. You get to the next group of names, and you say, "no, those guys aren't even arguably better". Clark was, at worst, the 5th-10th best player available.

I mean, what a complete piece of shit draft 1985 turned out to be. And anytime the 1st overall pick is good-but-not-great, you can name a few players taken later who turned out better (see above). If Nieuwendyk was a 3rd overall pick or Johansson went 2nd, sure, you could say that was a gaffe on the Leafs' part taking Clark. But those guys weren't even close to the radar for top pick - they just developed better, to everyone's surprise, including the teams who took them.

The Leafs 100% made the right pick, and the player panned out. And all he was, was a good top-6 injury prone power forward oozing heart. That's great but you expect way, way better with a 1st overall pick. Any other year you bottom out from, 1979-1995, make the right pick and the player pans out, you get a better result. 1996 is the only comparable year - Ottawa makes the right pick, Phillips pans out, just one player turns out to be definitively superior but wasn't even on the radar (Chara), so Ottawa did well - but still, it was just Chris Phillips.

Just bad luck. Even if we all remember Clarkie fondly.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

The problem is three 11 million dollar forwards. The vast majority of teams have ZERO 11 million dollar forwards. Only ONE team has 2 (McDrai averages out to about 11 mil each). And they have similar struggles as us.

And then there's the leafs. THREE 11 million dollar forwards.

If thy lose today, Dubas will be pressured into doing something. But I doubt he'll address the real problem. Three 11 million dollar forwards. He's stuck with Tavares. Matthews is Matthews. And Dubas will be too scared to trade Marner. So it will be a band-aide solution. Trading Nylander (the best contract of the 4) for some help on the back end.. But it won't be nearly enough.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

After Dubas earlier issues I think he’s put together a pretty good team. It’s time for a better coach to take the next step

I agree, here. If they can’t get it done tonight, I’m looking at Keefe for a change. I actually really like Keefe as a coach. The team has played great the vast majority of his time here, but he can’t get them over the hump, and that task should fall to someone else if he doesn’t tonight

 

[ToneDog]

I agree, here. If they can’t get it done tonight, I’m looking at Keefe for a change. I actually really like Keefe as a coach. The team has played great the vast majority of his time here, but he can’t get them over the hump, and that task should fall to someone else if he doesn’t tonight

Changing the coach is the easiest move. Love Trotz but can he co-exist with Dubas ??

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

he currently has them neck to neck with the twice defending cup champs.

My issue is they haven't played close to cup champion level. They've only played at a caliber to beat us in one full game, and the rest is just in spurts. We already gave them a freebie with weird line decisions in game 4 that made us not able to get in the game and build any momentum.

This is a dream setup any team can ask for against tampa. Vasi sucks. Their core sucks. This is the ugliest I've ever seen kucherov point and stamkos play. And here we are stuck in another game 7.

You have to admit you are at least curious what someone like Trotz can do if he got his hands on this team.

Changing the coach is the easiest move. Love Trotz but can he co-exist with Dubas ??

No word on why fired so I am hoping it because trotz is progressive and didn't mesh with dinosaur lou any more.

 

[seventieslord]

This is all scary talk.

Hockey is a game of inches. Leafs could badly outplay Tampa and lose. The complete opposite could happen too. A couple crossbars at key moments, A couple shots glancing off the knob of Vasi's stick. One or two go in off a guy's leg, can't even blame them for it. Lots could happen to derail a perfect game played by the Leafs, or by Tampa. We can get pretty emotional about the final result but a serious look has to be taken at the "how". If we lost, how did it happen? Heck, if we win, same thing, so we can adjust for Florida (who I expect to be easier than Tampa, for what it's worth).

We just have to accept that the difference between going down in round 1, and going on a run to the 3rd round and beyond, is a matter of inches. Matthews redirects that one into the net in OT, and Hathaway's empty netter closes out game 4 for Washington, we are suddenly looking at an incredibly easy round 2 and thinking ahead to a very winnable semifinal against whoever comes out of the Metro shitshow. A couple of inches the other way, and we've already lost this series after 6 games.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Nothing.

So your solution is to blow it up and reset and you think that's a better solution than to run it back.

I am not one of the ones that says "blow it up". The GM and coach need to be gone and the core needs to be rebalanced. That is not "blowing it up".