How many first round loses is Dubas allowed before he should be fired?

[Stephen]

It's funny seeing his fans praise the moves for more "grit" after spending the previous 3 years mocking fans for wanting more "grit".

I don't think Dubas should be fired and has done some good things better than other things, but it is damn frustrating to follow the career growth of a hockey executive who came in with such an extreme skill and finesse vision and then slowly, empirically realize that conventional aspects like grit, physicality, size on the back end and maybe strong goaltending have their uses after all and we need a more conventional ratio of those ingredients. And also if you're looking for veteran killer instinct, maybe get guys who are fresh off lengthy cup runs like Corey Perry and not a man child with novelty facial hair like Jumbo.

 

[ACC1224]

I don't think Dubas should be fired and has done some good things better than other things, but it is damn frustrating to follow the career growth of a hockey executive who came in with such an extreme skill and finesse vision and then slowly, empirically realize that conventional aspects like grit, physicality, size on the back end and maybe strong goaltending have their uses after all and we need a more conventional ratio of those ingredients. And also if you're looking for veteran killer instinct, maybe get guys who are fresh off lengthy cup runs like Corey Perry and not a man child with novelty facial hair like Jumbo.

 

[Havoc]

physicality, size on the back end

Embarrassing being a contender that doesn't box out, stop cycles along the boards or clear the crease. Hindsight says this whole idea that Dubas revamped the blue line is a hoax. We still haven't replaced 2016-2018 Zaitsev. He was one of the best in the game at killing cycles on the boards.....it's a shame he burned out mentally and became useless after.

Liljegren was starting to show a physical game in the crease near the end of the season and we swap him out for notorious puck fisher Holl.

I mean we were so starved for this we had to bring in a depth player from Arizona out of all places and insert him beside Rielly just because he had a necessary skillset we lack.


*Our defence is actually so overrated relative to this whole "Revamped" that I didn't know what smart defence looked like anymore until a 38 year old Giordano came and reminded me.

 

[mikeyz]

There's that imagination again.

It's not an imagination. It's a fact. Lol

 

[rocketman588]

really just trying to save Kadri at 3C to be honest. There is no cap limitations for matthews-tavares-kadri.

Even with the suspensions, with some better planned depth players we'd have rolled into round 2 with our 3 centers intact.

This honestly the kadri trade ruined the best part of the JT deal which was that we had 3 number 1 Cs

We have those 3 and Kampf and we look pretty legit

 

[DarkKnight]

Watching other teams still playing, again, really does drive home Dubas’ success story here. What a time to be alive. You go watch your team succeed, we fans dissect another failure, so much winning in Leafs land. Give me a D, a U , B, a A, S, what you got?

Nuts.

 

[Shooter2x]

Embarrassing being a contender that doesn't box out, stop cycles along the boards or clear the crease. Hindsight says this whole idea that Dubas revamped the blue line is a hoax. We still haven't replaced 2016-2018 Zaitsev. He was one of the best in the game at killing cycles on the boards.....it's a shame he burned out mentally and became useless after.

Liljegren was starting to show a physical game in the crease near the end of the season and we swap him out for notorious puck fisher Holl.

I mean we were so starved for this we had to bring in a depth player from Arizona out of all places and insert him beside Rielly just because he had a necessary skillset we lack.


*Our defence is actually so overrated relative to this whole "Revamped" that I didn't know what smart defence looked like anymore until a 38 year old Giordano came and reminded me.

I never looked at it that way.

It is odd to think a Coyotes DEPTH defenseman ends up beside our no.1 defenseman.

I really enjoy Boosh, love him in the lineup, but stating it like this does show you just how patch work we are with actual needs. Is it common to pluck depth players out of lottery teams and put them beside your top pairing D? Isn't that usually reserved for your Lindholm type trades?


We lost game 7 due to issues they were warned about since game 1 of the regular season. Rielly no box out on the rebound. Brodie doesn't take the man and neutralize the play. In no world should Nick Paul be getting that shot off in game 7, basic physical defense stops that play.

The defence goes fishing during the season and golfing in the off-season like clockwork.

 

[Havoc]

I never looked at it that way.

It is odd to think a Coyotes DEPTH defenseman ends up beside our no.1 defenseman.

I really enjoy Boosh, love him in the lineup, but stating it like this does show you just how patch work we are with actual needs. Is it common to pluck depth players out of lottery teams and put them beside your top pairing D? Isn't that usually reserved for your Lindholm type trades?


We lost game 7 due to issues they were warned about since game 1 of the regular season. Rielly no box out on the rebound. Brodie doesn't take the man and neutralize the play. In no world should Nick Paul be getting that shot off in game 7, basic physical defense stops that play.

The defence goes fishing during the season and golfing in the off-season like clockwork.

Same stuff different year. Nick Paul / Tampa wanted it more in game 7. Simple as that. Playing with his heart on his sleeve twisted Brodie up.

Rielly I have no comment for. Patience is running thin. I can't remember the last time he played good defence.

 

[Shooter2x]

Same stuff different year. Nick Paul / Tampa wanted it more in game 7. Simple as that. Playing with his heart on his sleeve twisted Brodie up.

Rielly I have no comment for. Patience is running thin. I can't remember the last time he played good defence.

Fair. Brodie I'm willing to give a pass since Paul was on a mission and showed our depth what's required of them in games like this. If our depth played with Paul's energy in game 7 we probably force Tampa to make a lot more mistakes as well. Rielly doesn't get a pass, nobody out-willed him. He was just horrible.

So we can go back to on-topic....Dubas F since his finger prints are mostly on non core-4 / goaltending and those areas are getting worse and worse every year.

 

[CelticDruid]

Same stuff different year. Nick Paul / Tampa wanted it more in game 7. Simple as that. Playing with his heart on his sleeve twisted Brodie up.

Rielly I have no comment for. Patience is running thin. I can't remember the last time he played good defence.

I felt that Reilly gave up on the first goal.
He basically just watched Paul score on the rebound instead of tying up his stick.

Brodie looked like his drugs just kicked in on the 2nd Paul goal.

Seemed to be a common theme of not tying up opponents sticks.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Honestly - he should already be fired. Letting Kadri/Hyman/Brown go for practically nothing, having to trade a 1st (Seth Jarvis) to offset Marleau contract. Sign Mrazek to a shitty long term deal.

Everything would be so simple had we not just signed Tavares - which I can't really fault him for since most of us wanted him. But the $ value just doesnt make sense if youre planning to give matthews, marner, and tavares all $11M

Bunting- Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Kadri - Nylander
Brown - Kampf - Mikhyev
Engvall - Spezza - Blackwell

What a better playoff roster that would have been lol

Love Brown and Hyman but it would have been a bad move to give a 29 yr old power forward a 7 or 8 yr deal at that cap hit. Brown was the casualty of having to get rid of Zaitsev's horrible contract.

Marleau being on the roster for one more year would have been dead cap space as he was useless. It hurts having to give up a first (Jarvis) to get rid of his contract but it was the only way it was going to be done.

Moving Kadri was the right move and I think most people thought we won that trade at the time but my God Barrie was bad and he ended up walking for nothing, so he ended up walking for nothing and we lost that trade. Having said that, moving Kadri allowed us the cap space to sign Brodie who has been arguably our best defender and one of the contributing reasons to us being much better defensively.

I would probably agree with most of your post but there was reasons why those players basically went for nothing.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I think in a market like Boston, where they are blue collar fans who expect only the best, Dubas would already be long gone.

It's not just the big picture failure, it's the optics of all the collapses, the games where team gets physically embarrassed, the complete lack of playoff success, the poor management of the cap.

We will see, I guess, if a more patient approach pays off. If it fails again this year, we will more or less have wasted the entire tank and rebuild era, as all the big contracts will be down to 1 year left, and that's when you need to start making some big decisions.

 

[81Leafs50]

Post how many consecutive 1st round exits Stamkos teams had before they won.

I will wait.

you know whats worse than consecutive 1st round losses. NOT making the playoffs, then winning multiple rounds then going back to missing the playoffs again. Thats Stamkos and Tampa.

 

[cannucky]

you know whats worse than consecutive 1st round losses. NOT making the playoffs, then winning multiple rounds then going back to missing the playoffs again. Thats Stamkos and Tampa.

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Uhmmm you conveniently forgot to follow with back to back Stanley Cups which this team is not going to win , thats some comparison you got there bud . Dubas this , expected corsi that , this an XBox simulation team playing in the real world thinking video game stats make up for real world play .

 

[Dekes For Days]

This isn't really an answerable question, because evaluating GMs exclusively by how many playoff series their team wins is simplistic and stupid.

 

[ACC1224]

There can be no defending giving him any more than one more loss. His vision for this team currently is a little out of focus. One more kick to make Leaf fans believe he’s capable.

Keefe should have been turfed though.

 

[ShaneFalco]

you know whats worse than consecutive 1st round losses. NOT making the playoffs, then winning multiple rounds then going back to missing the playoffs again. Thats Stamkos and Tampa.

View attachment 552236

What a terrible team

 

[Confucius]

4th best team in the league lost to the best team by a goal in game 7. Even outscored the best team in the league 23 to 22. God they suck...

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Gents some bad news for us .. although it has not gone public yet Dubie was renewed until end of Shanny's deal for 2024/25 season at 1M per about 10 months ago .. Shanny makes 5M per .. so if MLSE wants to unload these 2 guys they will have a $18M payout to deal with .. not a lot for MLSE but da decision on Shanny/Dubie was made last summer

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

This isn't really an answerable question, because evaluating GMs exclusively by how many playoff series their team wins is simplistic and stupid.

Not as simplistic and stupid as the "but we took back to back cup winning team to 7 games" as the only poverty argument to keep dubas and keefe. You go enjoy your participation ribbon while the ones who understand hockey bring some ideas to win rounds.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

Gents some bad news for us .. although it has not gone public yet Dubie was renewed until end of Shanny's deal for 2024/25 season at 1M per about 10 months ago .. Shanny makes 5M per .. so if MLSE wants to unload these 2 guys they will have a $18M payout to deal with .. not a lot for MLSE but da decision on Shanny/Dubie was made last summer

Yeah, cause we all know once a guy has a contract he can't be subsequently fired shortly thereafter on poor results.

Why is this "bad news"?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Not as simplistic and stupid as the "but we took back to back cup winning team to 7 games" as the only poverty argument to keep dubas and keefe.

There are plenty of arguments for keeping Dubas and Keefe, and exclusively looking at end playoff outcomes to make evaluations and decisions is one of if not the most simplistic and stupid methods possible.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Still waiting for that one sound argument to show why Dubas deserves another shot. Pro Dubas side is weak this off-season.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Yeah, cause we all know once a guy has a contract he can't be subsequently fired shortly thereafter on poor results.

Why is this "bad news"?

I thought they would be shown da door after another defeat .. 6 years of defeats .. it is too much

 

[ACC1224]

Still waiting for that one sound argument to show why Dubas deserves another shot. Pro Dubas side is weak this off-season.

In their defense there is maybe only 6 of them left.