How many first round loses is Dubas allowed before he should be fired?

[rocketman588]

Just because he's the smartest of the bunch doesn't mean he's the right GM. Almost all of those GM's didnt' inherit a team like Kyle did. Most of them inherited dumpster fire. They had to make trades they didn't want to, had to trade picks away because there was no good players to ice the teams.

JFJ inherited an old aging team
Cliff Fletcher first stint had to trade away draft picks because he wanted to maximize Doug Gilmours era. There was no young UFA to sign back on those days
Dave Nonis was cleaning up Burke's mistakes and again was under the gun

They never had the opportunity to rebuild and accumulate assets. Lou did that for Kyle. Lou set everything on a bloody platter. There was two bad contracts by Lou, Zatisev (who is still a serviceble defencemen) and Marleau who had 1 year left on his contract. But he wasn't getting paid 10 mill though

A team with. Matthews, Marner, Kadri, Nylander, JVR, Reilly, Andersen, Kapanen, AJ along with some depth players and a decent back up goalie in MeC.

Circumstances with Kyle is vastly different than any GM that managed the Leafs. Kyle is the luckiest of all them

Kyle "thinks" he's the smartest of the bunch.

He went to brock he's not that intelligent. Because he wears glasses and attempts to act like he loves analytics doesn't mean he actually knows what he's doing.

 

[deprw]

Vasi was terrible for the 1st 6 games.If he played against the Leafs like he did against FL that series would have been over in 4 or 5 as well. I give the Leafs credit. Credit for making another 1st round exit. And for all those who think we are moving forward, we'll talk next year after a pretty big regression.

That's an opinion and a view. Not a fact. What's the point on building up that kind of scenarios in your mind? If you watched that last game of that series you pretty much saw easy shots thrown to net from perimeter.

We took Tampa to seventh game. Florida lost in four. It's a difference and a fact.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I know what your explanation is. They tried and battled hard in game 7 unlike previous years.

But the result has been the same. They still lost in the 1st round. So in the grand scheme of things, there's no difference

We played so much better against TB than we did against MTL. As far as accomplishments goes, there's no difference. As far as evaluating where we are as a team, there is a big difference.

I guess it comes down to you're either a binary type thinker or you're not. Those who don't see any difference or at least the differences don't matter between this year's loss and last year's loss - think Dubas should have already been fired. Non-binary thinkers see progression and possible greatness still to come. I remember Detroit Re Wings and how good they were years before they won a cup. Islanders too. Some team it just all falls into place - others have to do it the slow, steady, 3 steps forward, 2 steps back route. As long as there's progression, I would wait for years with Dubas and this core. I think this team is getter stronger and we will be a solid powerhouse. We're right there

Yes that seems like a good way to put it. I think most people are probably smarter than they are sounding these days, they're just too upset/angry and that's why they're unable to see beyond "another 1st round exit".

Kyle "thinks" he's the smartest of the bunch.

He went to brock he's not that intelligent. Because he wears glasses and attempts to act like he loves analytics doesn't mean he actually knows what he's doing.

Another well thought out, logically reasoned post. Keep 'em coming.

 

[Shooter2x]

The gimmick is up for me.

I hope people know your GM doesn't need to be an analytics beast or cap guru. Leafs have the money to make the best analytics department in the entire universe + whatever perks we get from Dubas.

Get us a GM who knows how to win, period. Like I said in the other thread since you guys seem to be in that "what thread am I in" point of the year, objectively speaking, people are running on fumes suggesting Dubas knows how to build a winner.

Massive matchup or not, he keeps surrounding the core with players who wilt in the playoffs. The depth left behind from Burke era (I meant pre-dubas GM) that the core 4 had to work (as in the 18/19 team at that exact stage) with would have swept this years team with ease. That team even out-grit the Bruins when they were still a gritty team.

How many years in a row are we going to pat him on the back for that Hyman steal? Wake up already, he's a good GM, an amazing guy and human being, but he has no idea what he's doing if the player is not a superstar that can coach themselves.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

To Shanny who was a poor elementary and high school student but a beast of a hockey/lacrosse player Dubie looks very very smart even though from Brock .. da combo clearly does not work well .. and Shanny making huge cake and living in Boston and spending summers in Muskoka with mom and family is not a good look to players on team .. even with all that with 4 forwards making 50% of CAP it will never work out in playoffs when a 1D and 1G are critical .. Hedman and Vasi and Doughty and Quick formula with 2 top Cs it works for playoffs .. even Pens with Letang and Murray (before league figured him out) and 2 BEST Cs it still works .. but Rielly and Soup sorry it is not close .. Rielly can't change game either offensively and/or defensively and Soup is not a top end 1G .. all da stuff these guys do around edges of that core is not gonna work ever

 

[yubbers]

Dubas is probably the smartest gm we've ever had. And who the f*** would you guys replace him with?

LOL. The rookie GM that brought in Sparks and had to kick him out fo the room weeks before the playoffs is the smartest GM we've had huh? Explains a lot.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Unlimited first round exits at this point it feels like. The church of Dubas demands more sacrifices!

 

[yubbers]

Great post! Should be compulsory reading for all the people blinded by hate who keep posting that Dubas only likes smurfs and other such drivel.

Well done my good man. It's well thought out logic like this that keeps us coming back here. I sometimes think that the people like you who hate Dubas just sound so damn smart the way you explain your reasoning, maybe you're on to something.



One thing Dubas has done is massively improved our D to the point where I'm pretty sure nobody's D is that much better than ours. There's also more than 4 D-men on a team so there is that as well.

Sadly reality keeps getting in your way. Many of us that don't like Dubas have been right for 5 years now. You got no leg to stand on other than moral victories? This isn't house league hockey. Once he's fully wasted our AM years.....you finally gonna eat your crow?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Sadly reality keeps getting in your way. Many of us that don't like Dubas have been right for 5 years now. You got no leg to stand on other than moral victories? This isn't house league hockey. Once he's fully wasted our AM years.....you finally gonna eat your crow?

What crow would that be?

 

[Drytoast]

LOL. The rookie GM that brought in Sparks and had to kick him out fo the room weeks before the playoffs is the smartest GM we've had huh? Explains a lot.

You could pick poor moments with every GM. Point to me a gm who's available and with a pristine track record.

I'll wait.

 

[Drytoast]

I've said it multiple times, Dean Lombardi. I would've brought in Rutherford before Vancouver got him too

Dean Lombardi? Who gave up a first round draft pick for Lucic?

The Decline of Dean Lombardi

The long road from two Cups to unemployment.

www.jewelsfromthecrown.com

No thanks. He seems to have issues with cap management along with an inability to find talent.

Ontop of that, he seems to have the same qualities as Dubas has which you hate. Loyalty to his stars. Signs heavy contracts...deals high draft picks. So where I think Dubas excels is in his scouting, his staff, his demeanor and cap circumventing.

Dean seems like a step backwards.

 

[JKG33]

Dean Lombardi? Who gave up a first round draft pick for Lucic?

The Decline of Dean Lombardi

The long road from two Cups to unemployment.

www.jewelsfromthecrown.com

No thanks. He seems to have issues with cap management along with an inability to find talent.

Ontop of that, he seems to have the same qualities as Dubas has which you hate. Loyalty to his stars. Signs heavy contracts...deals high draft picks. So where I think Dubas excels is in his scouting, his staff, his demeanor and cap circumventing.

Dean seems like a step backwards.

I agree he made some stupid trades and contracts. But he built an almost perfect team and didn't start making these mistakes until after the 2nd cup, where he was fired shortly after. I was one of his biggest critics on the Lucic and Sekera trades.

Richards, Carter, Williams, Penner, Stoll, Mitchell, Martinez, Muzzin, Pearson, Toffoli, Gaborik, Campbell... a real inability to find talent indeed.

 

[Koolboss]

That Kadri trade eh

 

[yubbers]

What crow would that be?

That Dubas has been a failure.

 

[yubbers]

You could pick poor moments with every GM. Point to me a gm who's available and with a pristine track record.

I'll wait.

Of course you can. Just those GMs weren't handed a golden goose and have nothing to show for it. Dubas is learning and getting better. He;s finally understanding veterans are important. But if we waste our AM years so a rookie G could learn the ropes...it will go down as one of the biggest blunders in franchise history. JFJ will look good in comparison. LOL

 

[Drytoast]

Of course you can. Just those GMs weren't handed a golden goose and have nothing to show for it. Dubas is learning and getting better. He;s finally understanding veterans are important. But if we waste our AM years so a rookie G could learn the ropes...it will go down as one of the biggest blunders in franchise history. JFJ will look good in comparison. LOL

I think his big shift was to make more of an effort to sign grit. Especially on the back end. He's doing just fine.

 

[yubbers]

I think his big shift was to make more of an effort to sign grit. Especially on the back end. He's doing just fine.

HE'S NOT DOING JUST FINE. Holy shit. Why does everyone keep cheering on perpetual failure? Literally NO PROGRESS from that Babcock Washington series. None. With the best roster situation possible.

 

[Gary Nylund]

That Dubas has been a failure.

You're not making sense dude.

 

[Drytoast]

HE'S NOT DOING JUST FINE. Holy shit. Why does everyone keep cheering on perpetual failure? Literally NO PROGRESS from that Babcock Washington series. None. With the best roster situation possible.

Because you have to look at things with your eyeballs. Florida just got swept by Tampa, the same team we lost in 7 games by 1 goal. Grow the hell up. We just came off a 115 point season for christ sakes. You getting hysterical is discounting just how good Tampa Bay is right now.

They will cake walk to the finals. And we took them to the brink...where they needed bias officiating to get past us. If your eyeballs can't see the difference in play from this year to last year, especially by our core players...I can't help you.

 

[yubbers]

You're not making sense dude.

My bad if I missed a 1st round we got past. What years was that again? C'mon now.

 

[yubbers]

Because you have to look at things with your eyeballs. Florida just got swept by Tampa, the same team we lost in 7 games by 1 goal. Grow the hell up. We just came off a 115 point season for christ sakes. You getting hysterical is discounting just how good Tampa Bay is right now.

They will cake walk to the finals. And we took them to the brink...where they needed bias officiating to get past us. If your eyeballs can't see the difference in play from this year to last year, especially by our core players...I can't help you.

All that proves is that the Panthers have seen more progression than we have. And they won the presidents trophy. The goal of a successful team is to win a cup. We've made no progress doing so.

0-10 in our elimination games. It's nothing but excuses year after year. We're out of time.

 

[Drytoast]

All that proves is that the Panthers have seen more progression than we have. And they won the presidents trophy. The goal of a successful team is to win a cup. We've made no progress doing so.

0-10 in our elimination games. It's nothing but excuses year after year. We're out of time.

They had an easier opponent in the first round is all that means. We didnt.

And now I remind you of previous star players and how long they took to win anything in the playoffs.

Mario? Drafted in 84, didn't win till 91.
Yzerman? Drafted in 83, didn't win till 97.
Sakic? Drafted in 87, didn't win until 96.
Borque? Drafted in 79, didn't win until 2001 (wow!)
Ovechkin? Drafted in 2005, didn't win until 2017.
Stamkos? Drafted in 2008, didn't win until 2020

I mean I can keep going here, but all these players couldn't win those pivotal games to propel their teams to the Stanley cup until they could. It wasn't that long ago that we memed on Tampa because they kept failing hard in the post season. The most embarrassing was getting swept by Columbus. But they kept with it. They didn't fire Yzerman. They kept with it.

Relax, bud. Things will get better. I have faith in our core players.

 

[yubbers]

They had an easier opponent in the first round is all that means. We didnt.

Montreal says hi. Again....excuses.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Montreal says hi. Again....excuses.

Oh but they made the SCF! We took that team to 7 games! It's a shame - Toronto deserves so much better. Worst part is fans are ok with losing as long as they try now. No pressure to win at all. No expectations

 

[Drytoast]

Montreal says hi. Again....excuses.

And we played like absolute shit against Montreal. But against Tampa this year? My eyes tell me the played as well as they could. And Tampa was just better by 1 damn goal gifted by the refs.

What ya wanna do? Blow it up over that?