How many first round loses is Dubas allowed before he should be fired?

[GoonieFace]

Love how all the Leaf haters know what's best for the team. If Dubas is bad, wouldn't you want him to be in charge forever?

I think we're good with keeping him. The Leafs play in a tough division but it won't be that way forever, In 2-3 years, they are going to be the top dogs of the Atlantic and they will then get the easy path to the second, third rounds like teams in the West enjoy right now.

You don't fire your GM or blow your team up because they lost by one goal in a series that was close against the back to back champs. They made Tampa look ordinary. If not for the refs gifting Tampa a 5 on 3 with their season on the line, they are in the ECF right now instead of Tampa. There is a fine line between winning and losing in hockey.

Is the fine line 18 years?

 

[JKG33]

I get a kick out of all the Dubas lovers that are still dining out on the Lou/Marleau contract but still look the other way at Dubas's mess.

His ineptitude at cap mangement was the reason that contract cost him a 1st rd pick.

He signed JT after asking,yes asking,his big 3 if they were okay with it,solid leadership right there consulting his emplyees.

He fights with Nylander for 4 months and then gives him everything he wanted and even no penalty of lost salary for the 2 months he missed which made him look really weak and spineless.

Nylander shows the way and Matthews owns Dubas and dictates eveything in his contract including top dollar,short term and a NMC in his last year.

Marner destroys him with a brutal contract where he too gets everything he wanted and agents everywhere are laughing at our so called leader and vote him their absolute favourite GM.

But yes continue to rake Lou over the coals over Marleau and look the other way on all of the contracts Dubas screwed up and also the fact that Dubas caused his own grief on Marleau's contract and not Lou.

Dubas should have been fired after last years embarrassment and instead Leaf fans are once again the butt of all the other teams jokes.

I couldn't have said it better myself

 

[ShaneFalco]

Love how all the Leaf haters know what's best for the team. If Dubas is bad, wouldn't you want him to be in charge forever?

I think we're good with keeping him. The Leafs play in a tough division but it won't be that way forever, In 2-3 years, they are going to be the top dogs of the Atlantic and they will then get the easy path to the second, third rounds like teams in the West enjoy right now.

You don't fire your GM or blow your team up because they lost by one goal in a series that was close against the back to back champs. They made Tampa look ordinary. If not for the refs gifting Tampa a 5 on 3 with their season on the line, they are in the ECF right now instead of Tampa. There is a fine line between winning and losing in hockey.

This is why losing is tolerated - you have to as a poster in a hockey forum indicate how you wouls do a better job than someone who is a GM with unlimited
resources
Plus tough division
Unreal
How many years?

 

[Gary Nylund]

But they (Leafs management) are happy with status quo. They are happy with making the playoffs and setting regular season records. That's the vibe I got from the pressers. We are not close to Tampa, despite what some of you are saying. If Dubas and Shanny are happy with status quo, we will not see any tangible improvements next playoffs. Besides, I don't trust this team to duplicate the effort next year. They can very easily replicate 2020 and 2021. You guys are happy with the better effort, but the result is the same. Tampa doesn't make excuses, they just win. Moral victories are pathetic at this point. Why are we the simpletons when you guys think just because we played a close 7 gamer with Tampa we are somehow on their level. It's laughable.

I don't know what management is thinking. I know we finished ahead of TB during the regular season for the first time with this core and we pushed them hard in the playoffs, came closer to beating them than anyone else has during this run of theirs so I dunno, not sure how anyone can argue we're not close to them.

Of course we're not on their level, gotta win in the playoffs and we've yet to do that but I think we're close. We're one of the best teams in the league but TB looks like they might win their 3rd straight cup, when was the last time someone did that? I believe is hasn't been done in about 40 years, am I wrong?

We almost beat them and that's something. It's nothing to celebrate but when we're talking about how good/bad this team is and how far we have to go to get to the promised land, it's some pretty meaningful context.

No point in predicting what will happen next year. If you're already thinking we will regress and lose, what can I say, you go right ahead. Me I'm going to wait and see what happens and considering our best players are just hitting their prime, I'd say there is reason for optimism.

I signed on as a Leaf fan in the 80's

In my span the GM's were;
Gerry McNamara
Gord Stellick
Floyd Smith
Cliff Fletcher
Bill Waters
Ken Dryden
Pat Quinn
JFJ
Brian Burke
Dave Nonis
Lou
And now Kyle

We don't have a great history of GM's. Kyle is the smartest of that bunch. And I dare say with the way he negotiates around the salary cap, one of the smartest in the league.

Yeah the history is pretty bad. The only one I thought was OK was Fletcher but mostly he just got lucky with one HUGE trade win.

Yes, Dubas took a terrible blueline and made it decent. He deserves credit for improving, but looking at Tampa Bay should show you how much further there is to go. Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev, and Cernak is so far beyond Rielly, Muzzin, Brodie, and Giordano.

There are more than 4 - Tampa's depth includes Rutta, Bogosian, and Foote. That's not much behind Liljgren, Holl, and Lyubushkin.

Agree to disagree, not much else to say here.

 

[oobga]

My bad. Thought this was general forum poll hitting link on main page.

 

[DarkKnight]

Love how all the Leaf haters know what's best for the team. If Dubas is bad, wouldn't you want him to be in charge forever?

I think we're good with keeping him. The Leafs play in a tough division but it won't be that way forever, In 2-3 years, they are going to be the top dogs of the Atlantic and they will then get the easy path to the second, third rounds like teams in the West enjoy right now.

You don't fire your GM or blow your team up because they lost by one goal in a series that was close against the back to back champs. They made Tampa look ordinary. If not for the refs gifting Tampa a 5 on 3 with their season on the line, they are in the ECF right now instead of Tampa. There is a fine line between winning and losing in hockey.

That’s “fine” to argue, but we’re also always on the other side of it and that isn’t just not something fluffed off so easily. I agree we’re close, I also don’t think you can have no casualties here, run back everything. I can Keefe in a heartbeat, he’s ordinary. This organization is too cozy and safe, you need to signal close isn’t good enough, not continually double down with self satisfied can kicking down the road again. I’m all in on a Trotz if possible, he’s an upgrade. The coach is the move here, short of a fire sale and clean house, which isn’t necessary. But Dubas doesn’t operate that way, again cozy.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Because it IS just another 1st round exit.

Whats the difference between “Coming within an inch of beating the powerhouse TB team” this year and the previous other playoff eliminations in the last half decade?

Did they advance past the 1st round because they came within that inch this year??

Sigh. If you need to ask, then I doubt you'd understand any explanation.

 

[fahad203]

I signed on as a Leaf fan in the 80's

In my span the GM's were;
Gerry McNamara
Gord Stellick
Floyd Smith
Cliff Fletcher
Bill Waters
Ken Dryden
Pat Quinn
JFJ
Brian Burke
Dave Nonis
Lou
And now Kyle

We don't have a great history of GM's. Kyle is the smartest of that bunch. And I dare say with the way he negotiates around the salary cap, one of the smartest in the league.

Just because he's the smartest of the bunch doesn't mean he's the right GM. Almost all of those GM's didnt' inherit a team like Kyle did. Most of them inherited dumpster fire. They had to make trades they didn't want to, had to trade picks away because there was no good players to ice the teams.

JFJ inherited an old aging team
Cliff Fletcher first stint had to trade away draft picks because he wanted to maximize Doug Gilmours era. There was no young UFA to sign back on those days
Dave Nonis was cleaning up Burke's mistakes and again was under the gun

They never had the opportunity to rebuild and accumulate assets. Lou did that for Kyle. Lou set everything on a bloody platter. There was two bad contracts by Lou, Zatisev (who is still a serviceble defencemen) and Marleau who had 1 year left on his contract. But he wasn't getting paid 10 mill though

A team with. Matthews, Marner, Kadri, Nylander, JVR, Reilly, Andersen, Kapanen, AJ along with some depth players and a decent back up goalie in MeC.

Circumstances with Kyle is vastly different than any GM that managed the Leafs. Kyle is the luckiest of all them

 

[ShaneFalco]

So to sum up - to some Dubas is doing a great job

 

[DarkKnight]

Just because he's the smartest of the bunch doesn't mean he's the right GM. Almost all of those GM's didnt' inherit a team like Kyle did. Most of them inherited dumpster fire. They had to make trades they didn't want to, had to trade picks away because there was no good players to ice the teams.

JFJ inherited an old aging team
Cliff Fletcher first stint had”core to trade away draft picks because he wanted to maximize Doug Gilmours era. There was no young UFA to sign back on those days
Dave Nonis was cleaning up Burke's mistakes and again was under the gun

They never had the opportunity to rebuild and accumulate assets. Lou did that for Kyle. Lou set everything on a bloody platter. There was two bad contracts by Lou, Zatisev (who is still a serviceble defencemen) and Marleau who had 1 year left on his contract. But he wasn't getting paid 10 mill though

A team with. Matthews, Marner, Kadri, Nylander, JVR, Reilly, Andersen, Kapanen, AJ along with some depth players and a decent back up goalie in MeC.

Circumstances with Kyle is vastly different than any GM that managed the Leafs. Kyle is the luckiest of all them

That’s the thing about that list, nobody inherited as enviable a situation as Dubas. Go through, he has no comparable. Literally gifted this core and he never attracts JT without it either. The genius is all theory to this point.

 

[93Gilmour]

Seventy seven times seven.

 

[JKG33]

That’s the thing about that list, nobody inherited as enviable a situation as Dubas. Go through, he has no comparable. Literally gifted this core and he never attracts JT without it either. The genius is all theory to this point.

I agree completely. He received the team ready to go (although I'd argue Lou didn't do much in that regard either, Matthews and Marner were the obvious draft picks). But Dubas has failed to add the right kind of players as depth

 

[mikeyz]

Sigh. If you need to ask, then I doubt you'd understand any explanation.

Yes. I do need to ask. Because it's been 6 straight years of 1st round exits. 5 of them going to a game 7. And in those 5 years, they're 0-9 in closeout games and obviously 0-5 in do or die games.

When you look at those stats, Did you ever stop and think that maybe, just maybe this team chokes after winning the 3rd game and maybe their inability to close out a series might be in their heads???

 

[ShaneFalco]

We almost beat them and that's something.

Yeah no it means nothing. Absolutely nothing

Yes. I do need to ask. Because it's been 6 straight years of 1st round exits. 5 of them going to a game 7. And in those 5 years, they're 0-9 in closeout games and obviously 0-5 in do or die games.

When you look at those stats, Did you ever stop and think that maybe, just maybe this team chokes after winning the 3rd game and maybe their inability to close out a series might be in their heads???

No because they tried this year!

 

[Gabriel426]

Dubas might not be a great GM but he is not a terrible GM.
If anything he inherited a Top 5-7teams in the League and the Leafs is still a Top 5-7 teams in the League.
The Leafs(Dubas and the players) just didn’t make the jump yet.
Now do I think Dubas can alter the roster in order to help the Leafs to make the jump? I don’t bc with the allocation of the Cap and how he drafts, I don’t trust Dubas enough to make the tough trade.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yes. I do need to ask. Because it's been 6 straight years of 1st round exits. 5 of them going to a game 7. And in those 5 years, they're 0-9 in closeout games and obviously 0-5 in do or die games.

When you look at those stats, Did you ever stop and think that maybe, just maybe this team chokes after winning the 3rd game and maybe their inability to close out a series might be in their heads???

Like I said, if you can't see any difference then you won't understand any explanation.

Yeah no it means nothing. Absolutely nothing

Opinions vary.

 

[mikeyz]

Like I said, if you can't see any difference then you won't understand any explanation.

Opinions vary.

I know what your explanation is. They tried and battled hard in game 7 unlike previous years.

But the result has been the same. They still lost in the 1st round. So in the grand scheme of things, there's no difference

 

[zeke]

Dubas might not be a great GM but he is not a terrible GM.
If anything he inherited a Top 5-7teams in the League and the Leafs is still a Top 5-7 teams in the League.
The Leafs(Dubas and the players) just didn’t make the jump yet.
Now do I think Dubas can alter the roster in order to help the Leafs to make the jump? I don’t bc with the allocation of the Cap and how he drafts, I don’t trust Dubas enough to make the tough trade.

The 17-18 Leafs finished 7th in the standings, 9th in regulation wins, 11th in xGF%, with their elite core all on ELCs.

These Leafs finished 4th in the standings, 3rd in regulation wins, 1st in xGF%.

 

[Lemontree]

The 17-18 Leafs finished 7th in the standings, 9th in regulation wins, 11th in xGF%, with their elite core all on ELCs.

These Leafs finished 4th in the standings, 3rd in regulation wins, 1st in xGF%.

Due to the young star players taking the next step in their development. The star players given to Dubas, his job was to add the support core to the young stars…..he has failed because he has no idea how to build a team and bring in players with different elements that fit together.

 

[Gabriel426]

The 17-18 Leafs finished 7th in the standings, 9th in regulation wins, 11th in xGF%, with their elite core all on ELCs.

These Leafs finished 4th in the standings, 3rd in regulation wins, 1st in xGF%.

Still 1st round exits.
Regular season improvements means very little. Nobody remember the best team in the regular season last year or the year before but we remember TB as back to back Champs.
Like I said, Dubas pretty much maintain the status quo for the Leafs, he has not assemble a team that took the next step.
Same as JT, he wasn’t signed to help the Leafs win a few more games in the regular season, he was signed to help the Leafs take the next step in the playoffs.

 

[killer1980]

Vasi was terrible for the 1st 6 games.If he played against the Leafs like he did against FL that series would have been over in 4 or 5 as well. I give the Leafs credit. Credit for making another 1st round exit. And for all those who think we are moving forward, we'll talk next year after a pretty big regression.

 

[LeafAttack]

Last chance for him,Shanny,and Keefe.I hope they do it.
If they cant do it,then fire those 3,replace them with those who have won,and get some players who have won,and keep as many good players as you can.Somehow this has turned too corporate,and only thing that matters is making a profit..not winning.Just-IMO.

A question...Did Tampa make a bunch of changes after they lost to CB after their presidents trophy ?
Just asking.

 

[AllDay28]

I get a kick out of all the Dubas lovers that are still dining out on the Lou/Marleau contract but still look the other way at Dubas's mess.

His ineptitude at cap mangement was the reason that contract cost him a 1st rd pick.

He signed JT after asking,yes asking,his big 3 if they were okay with it,solid leadership right there consulting his emplyees.

He fights with Nylander for 4 months and then gives him everything he wanted and even no penalty of lost salary for the 2 months he missed which made him look really weak and spineless.

Nylander shows the way and Matthews owns Dubas and dictates eveything in his contract including top dollar,short term and a NMC in his last year.

Marner destroys him with a brutal contract where he too gets everything he wanted and agents everywhere are laughing at our so called leader and vote him their absolute favourite GM.

But yes continue to rake Lou over the coals over Marleau and look the other way on all of the contracts Dubas screwed up and also the fact that Dubas caused his own grief on Marleau's contract and not Lou.

Dubas should have been fired after last years embarrassment and instead Leaf fans are once again the butt of all the other teams jokes.

Ya joke teams get the most points in franchise history in the toughest division in all of hockey... Sit this one out.

if you went to old NHL rules and ties happened, Leafs would of been 51-21-10.. yaa... joke team.

You ever think maybe your opinion is a joke? self reflection is key

 

[Enga Olly]

I guess it comes down to you're either a binary type thinker or you're not. Those who don't see any difference or at least the differences don't matter between this year's loss and last year's loss - think Dubas should have already been fired. Non-binary thinkers see progression and possible greatness still to come. I remember Detroit Re Wings and how good they were years before they won a cup. Islanders too. Some team it just all falls into place - others have to do it the slow, steady, 3 steps forward, 2 steps back route. As long as there's progression, I would wait for years with Dubas and this core. I think this team is getter stronger and we will be a solid powerhouse. We're right there

 

[deprw]

I know what your explanation is. They tried and battled hard in game 7 unlike previous years.

But the result has been the same. They still lost in the 1st round. So in the grand scheme of things, there's no difference

Your metric is simple to understand but it's impossible for making any real decisions beyond anything, if you can't understand the difference between Habs and Tampa series or how our core played in those series.