How many first round loses is Dubas allowed before he should be fired?

[57 Years No Cup]

Since it seems Dubas is apparently locked in stone as long as Shanahan is president and his boss, and the results don't seem to matter, then the next big pressure point in this question will come in 2 years time when Matthews contract is up.

Dubas gave Leafs franchise player Matthews only a 5 year deal, because he spent so much on UFA Tavares, that he couldn't no longer afford for cap reason, to instead lock Auston for 8 years which should have been priority #1 and an organizational mandate, similar to Connor McDavid.. So now Leafs losing in round #1 year after year, after year will impact Matthews decision to stay or go. Leafs losing and players leaving a sinking ship will be related. IMO

Matthews legacy already includes 6 straight round #1 losses, and so without any further success next year, then he will have a higher chance of leaving than staying to chase Cup success elsewhere, for himself and his reputation alone.

Should Matthews leave not only will it send the Leafs back into a rebuild cycle, but an angry mob in Toronto with pitchforks will come looking for Dubas head on a spike for not getting the 8 year term, and looking to tar and feather and to be hanged, drawn and quartered like they use to do in the olden days for treason, which is equivalent to losing your franchise player due to your own actions at the detterment of the organization. Dubas will need to be relocated into a witness protection program for his own safety as the fan base and the media will be looking for blood.

My point being eventually the results will matter, and it might be Matthews that forces that change to happen, and repect in a handshake line no longer good enough to keep the status quo among all the losing.

The clock is ticking....

Matthews will not be a Leaf after next season. Book it.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Just to put in context how badly dubas has screwed the pooch

- Matthews is 3 years into his contract ( 2 more years left, has NTC/MNC in last year of his contract)
- Marner is 3 years into his contract (3 more years left, has NTC/NMC in the last 2 years of his contract, kicks in the same time as Matthews)
- Nylander is 4 years into his contract (modified NTC in last year of his contract)
- Tavares is 4 years into his contract (full NTC/NMC)

Simply put: Next year is the only year both Matthews and Marner can be traded; else they have full autonomy to walk as UFAs; whether Dubas is here or not does not matter !

The failure that is the dubas era will be one for the ages. Dubas will be used as an example in textbooks on how "NOT" to be a GM and run a team



Dubas: "Keefe will be talked about as one of the great coaches in next 10-15 years"

do you not know?

AM leaving us worries me because if he does what JT did (say he was staying and not allowing them to trade his as a rental) then we are pooched. Of all the things Dubas did wrong in those deals with everyone...the NMC in the last years of AM and MM are the worst things possible.

If AM really wants out and doesn't want to screw the team...he should do a sign and trade for the team to at least get something back with him having full control over where he goes. I doubt that would happen that is what I would do if I was leaving.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Maybe, maybe not. If it was me then I'd like to know for sure. I agree about saying publicly that this move or that mover was a mistake doesn't need to be done, I'd just want to 100% know where his head is at.

As I've said before, my biggest worry is that he maybe takes the concept of loyalty too far. I think it's possible that he won't even consider moving on from a core piece or from Keefe. I hope that's not true but I think it might be and if is, that's obviously not a good thing.

I don't think it's loyalty as much as it is admitting he screwed up. If he trades Willy...everyone will remind him of how he said he had no intention of trading him during the length of the contract. He might also have realized that loyalty only goes so far. Look at Mikyhev and how he wanted out after last season. Did he bite his tongue because Dubas stayed behind in NJ at the hospital? nope....

 

[nuck]

All of that, and the leafs were still one Kerfoot breakaway from shutting all this up. There is no way for me to defend not getting it done. But all these posts won't convince me Dubas didn't do a good job or more importantly that a new shiny toy will get them further along next year.

I somewhat agree but the Kerfoot breakaway just gets them a round one victory so its only an achievement in the context of the many earlier failures. But for Kadri suspensions they might have been past Boston twice so is this year really much different than those two? They will make the playoffs and get 100pts no matter what and the shiny new toy can do no worse than a 1st round exit so the bar is extremely low right? I think it comes down to the assumptions you make about why those earlier failures happened.

If we accept that Kyle staying means the core four are staying then you either believe this kind of cap imbalance can be worked around or that this cap imbalance is exactly why the club keeps falling just short. To add to that thought, if commitment to the core four means Willie has to stay then the club is ignoring the possibility that a cap imbalance like this could actually work but you need to move away from a four gunslinger offense and replace Willie's $7M with a lesser sniper who throws hits all night long or invest that coin in a defenseman

Any GM that comes in almost certainly isn't going to move Mitch, AM or Rielly or to run the rest of the talented players out of town but there would be some changes. No other team still in the playoffs has four forwards with 76 points or more so there is a different way. Fine Kyle stays, but his rookie GM vision doesn't really need to, does it?

 

[tokyoite]

hire trotz ASAP

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Willing to be proven wrong, obviously.

Though not quite crashing and burning the franchise to the ground Dubas has completely failed so far to improve the team, measurably, in the goal of winning the Cup.

We're no further ahead than when we lost to the Caps with Lou at the helm in his first few seasons with the team...

Each year I'm right, Dubas fans are wrong, and then they get mad at me for being right...

Rinse, repeat.

Get rid of the guy and lets all rally behind someone that will actually improve the team, how about that?

Lou did a great job of tearing it down and getting our rebuild started. Nothing else he has done would've given me confidence that he could get us to the promiseland. His contracts are mostly bad, he did nothing to improve our defence and his drafting outside of the top of the 1st round has been awful for the past 10 yrs or so, As evidenced by the end of his tenure in NJ, his drafts with the Leafs and the NYI prospect pool.

The 2 best things he has done on the island is hire arguably the best coach in the league and arguably the best goalie coach in the league. Those are pretty much the only reasons I would say contributed to the Isles immediate success but where is their team now? They are where I predicted they would be. A team in cap trouble with a bunch of contracts that are going to be hard to move and a bad prospect pool.

 

[DarkKnight]

Be thankful the usual suspects have gone into hiding/hibernation. Just wait until they start off next season with a few wins. Rinse and repeat.

This happens every year. Remember years ago arguing we had a top defence based on some stats, then disappearing until it started again next year, with a dose of arrogance too, which I just love.

 

[DarkKnight]

Does everyone have selective memory when it comes to this guy? He had his first win on the dumpster diving this past off season. He brought us Jumbo and Vesey and a whole host of other useless guys that people forget. They act like Mrazek is the first time he goofed. It wasn't.

If you want to give the guy credit for Kampf and Bunting along with Kase...fine...I agree they were good finds...but lets not pretend it's a yearly occurrence. He did it 1x out of 4 shots.

Also gifted the core. Tertiary moves and he’s a genius somehow. He’s made some nice trades, some awful ones, decent drafts, although the cupboard is just about bare now and generally horrible contracts. If the NHL was a class, he’s a middling performer. C plus? B minus? A plus for selling the media.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I don't know man. I don't take numbers out of the air and live by them without context. He's fine for now. Not sure we should hold losing a surprise playoff appearance (Washington) against him either, that one was a plus not a minus.

One well timed goal away from beating Tampa. There is nothing to fix. He's good at finding bargains (except the Mrazek blunder) and he conducts himself with dignity and class. Keefe probably gets fired first so Kyle probably has 2 safe years assuming no break throughs or major collapses. If we fail to make or get swept well, you know how that goes.

Nothing to fix - seriously?
He conducts himself with arrogance too especially since he's had no success in this league

Be thankful the usual suspects have gone into hiding/hibernation. Just wait until they start off next season with a few wins. Rinse and repeat.

Most would love to be wrong and eat crow except the hard core Dubas supporters. Never wrong it's context and excuses

 

[Gabriel426]

It was a bad deal because of the JT signing. It would have been nothing to have that 3rd year on the books had Dubas not done that. Do you think Lou sat there and wondered if giving Marleau that 3rd year would be a nightmare because he might be signing JT to an $11M deal after year 2 of the deal?

It was only an issue because Dubas made it one with his moves. Lou wasn't perfect by any means...but please stop with the blaming of Lou because of what Dubas did.

As an aside, I hated the Patty years and am convinced that he showed AM and MM that you need to get as much as you can from each contract. In retrospect, getting a Justin Williams would have been the play.

Not blaming on Lou but Marleau was a Lou signing.
I agree that JT was and should not be consider at the time of Marleau signing bc JT could have resigned with the Islanders. However, to say Marleau’s deal was a not bad deal for the Leafs is really far off. It was not a good deal from the start and made it worst due to JT’s signing.
Honestly, when the Marleau deal happened, I thought Lou was going to trade JVR for picks and prospects but JVR ended up being an own rental. Would had made more sense if JVR was traded that summer.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

No way Dubas is here if they lose in the first round next year. Heck the whole front office probably gets cleared out.

 

[BlueBaron]

Nothing to fix - seriously?
He conducts himself with arrogance too especially since he's had no success in this league


Most would love to be wrong and eat crow except the hard core Dubas supporters. Never wrong it's context and excuses

Tweaking the bottom 6 and a goalies is most of it. Seriously. Could search for a 2nd line lw. We'll see.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't think it's loyalty as much as it is admitting he screwed up. If he trades Willy...everyone will remind him of how he said he had no intention of trading him during the length of the contract. He might also have realized that loyalty only goes so far. Look at Mikyhev and how he wanted out after last season. Did he bite his tongue because Dubas stayed behind in NJ at the hospital? nope....

I don't think he'd keep Willie just because of perception or whatever. Keep in mind that all the Dubas haters were predicting that he'd mortage the future at the TDL in a desperate attempt to win at least one round in order to keep his job but that didn't happen.

I don't know, it's hard to figure what he's thinking and that's why I say I'd need to interview him before making any kind of decision. So keep him or fire him, I dunno, I just don't have enough information. He's staying as GM so I hope he's thinking the right things, not much else I can do.

 

[Gabriel426]

This happens every year. Remember years ago arguing we had a top defence based on some stats, then disappearing until it started again next year, with a dose of arrogance too, which I just love.

I ignore a few of them and I do see some of them posting here and there but not as often and didn’t bring out their stats.

No way Dubas is here if they lose in the first round next year. Heck the whole front office probably gets cleared out.

That’s what we said last season

 

[zeke]

This happens every year. Remember years ago arguing we had a top defence based on some stats, then disappearing until it started again next year, with a dose of arrogance too, which I just love.

The Leafs showed they have a top defense again this year.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I dont think he's done as bad of a job as people make him out to have done
sure the signings hasnt really worked out in his favor but he has done a very good job of putting really good teams together. this is as much on the players as it is Dubas.

One thing most of you forget covid what 3 seasons now? we have had a flat cap. Leafs aren't the first team to sign their guys to high percentages of the cap. the goal is as the cap continues to grow your star players high cap hits become more team friendly.
but with the cap only going up 1m per season nothing is changing it's still like we just signed all of them 1st or 2nd year in except their almost UFA now

I remember seeing Bettman expecting the cap to grow around 3m before covid shut things down. if the cap were to grow between 2-3m every season since they signed Matthews,Marner and Tavares things would be alot better right now

 

[yubbers]

Should've been canned after Columbus. We missed the playoff because of his goalie debacle. He then follows it up with Montreal...LOL. ANd still kept his job.

 

[Bomber0104]

The Leafs showed they have a top defense again this year.

“Leafs In Four”

LMAO

 

[PromisedLand]

 

[GojuLeaf]

I don't care about whether dubas stays or goes. Tbh I don't see a replacement doing any better. Fact is the NHL is hard to win in right now and the Leafs areas good as any of the top teams.

What I do despise is the idea that he did no good at all. We lost in round 1 sure, but we were so far from our last 2 years performance that I am not sure how any serious fan who actually watched the team could Think this season was a failure.

Are there improvements to be made? Of course!

But now I'm seeing people say 'oh Tampa found their game now they were playing so bad against the leafs and still beat them but now they will walk to the finals'

Seriously? Tampa played far better in most of the games against the leafs than they did in their game 2 win against Florida. I can tell these trolls are not watching the game.

And any leaf fans thinking this way, I think need to think long and hard about why they have the same actual opinion as trolling fans from other teams.

Anyways cut Dubas if you need a sacrificial lamb, but when you start making too many changes I can guarantee it will be for the worse.

 

[WickedPegJets]

Just making the playoffs and getting the revenue from those 2 playoff home games is good enough as far as some teams' ownership is concerned.

That's how it is in Pittsburgh now, speaking of teams who do the one-and-done thing every year.

Pens’s President Brian Burke will shake things up. He might even fire GM Ron Hextall.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I don't care about whether dubas stays or goes. Tbh I don't see a replacement doing any better. Fact is the NHL is hard to win in right now and the Leafs areas good as any of the top teams.

What I do despise is the idea that he did no good at all. We lost in round 1 sure, but we were so far from our last 2 years performance that I am not sure how any serious fan who actually watched the team could Think this season was a failure.

Are there improvements to be made? Of course!

But now I'm seeing people say 'oh Tampa found their game now they were playing so bad against the leafs and still beat them but now they will walk to the finals'

Seriously? Tampa played far better in most of the games against the leafs than they did in their game 2 win against Florida. I can tell these trolls are not watching the game.

And any leaf fans thinking this way, I think need to think long and hard about why they have the same actual opinion as trolling fans from other teams.

Anyways cut Dubas if you need a sacrificial lamb, but when you start making too many changes I can guarantee it will be for the worse.

Yea, but now people will think that Leafs are close to TB which we are definitely not. They won back-to-back cups and going for #3. They don't make excuses, they just win. They don't say "we played well, but lost, no shame in that" They actually win. Our Leafs have not reached that level yet, or anything remotely close. I don't think we are close to them. And if Dubie and co. think that, we won't see any tangible improvements to this roster.

 

[GojuLeaf]

Yea, but now people will think that Leafs are close to TB which we are definitely not. They won back-to-back cups and going for #3. They don't make excuses, they just win. Our Leafs have not reached that level yet, or anything remotely close. I don't think we are close to them. And if Dubie and co. think that, we won't see any tangible improvements to this roster.

We were one 5 on 3 phantom call from beating them 4-2 in a Stanley Cup playoff series.

Sure they have proven that they have what it takes to last the grind of the playoffs and win the cup, twice, which is infinitely more impressive than anything the leafs have done.

But I Think the leafs have proven that when it comes down to it they are within a hair from beating the 2x champs in a series.
Now all we need is some kind of little push, maybe a better goalie or some upgrade to our third line, to be able to comfortably beat any playoff team.

That's just my opinion of course, and goalies obviously don't grow on trees.

 

[Suntouchable13]

We were one 5 on 3 phantom call from beating them 4-2 in a Stanley Cup playoff series.

Sure they have proven that they have what it takes to last the grind of the playoffs and win the cup, twice, which is infinitely more impressive than anything the leafs have done.

But I Think the leafs have proven that when it comes down to it they are within a hair from beating the 2x champs in a series.
Now all we need is some kind of little push, maybe a better goalie or some upgrade to our third line, to be able to comfortably beat any playoff team.

That's just my opinion of course, and goalies obviously don't grow on trees.

Yes, but the difference is Tampa wins those games and Leafs find a way to lose them. Bottom line, I want to see a winner I don't care who the GM is or who the coach is or who the players are.

 

[DarkKnight]

The Leafs showed they have a top defense again this year.

And it doesn’t even resemble what you bragged about incessantly , when everyone was saying we needed to improve our D you argued it was good, Dubas didn’t even agree with you.

Nice avatar btw, a playoff series we lost. What a moment, also perfect.