How is Japan not better?

[Eye of Ra]

They have over 18 000 registered players. Thats more than Austria, Italy, Slovakia, Norway, UK, Latvia, Hungary, Belarus and Kazaksthan.

Why are Japan not producing more players of quality?

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[Boonk]

Early levels of youth hockey seem to do well but beyond that, that's it. There's little to no structure to develop Japanese players domestically at the junior and senior levels, so the talented Japanese junior players have to go to Europe or North America and face off against Canadians, Americans, and Euro players who are far more along in development in their age group.

Japan is fascinating. They have the foundations to build and develop a hockey culture and system but they don't have the funding to continue with that further sadly.

 

[NewSNESJersey]

Let me delete my account

 

[Albatros]

Because hockey is extremely fringe. Pretty much everyone involved is registered so the other way you can look at that is 18 000 people playing hockey in a country of 126 million. Also when it's oftentimes just a school sport there's no clear career path to becoming a pro.

 

[wetcoast]

Genetics mainly.
Remember that Youtube phenom Aito Iguchi? His draft year was just this year and he was 5'3" and 117 pounds. Obviously not on any teams' radars.

Also doesn't help that it's not typical sport in Japan with no major international success to help build interest. Curling is a non-typical sport that's growing there thanks to the Olympic bronze they won in 2018

Is Aito Iguchi even playing at a relevant level yet?

 

[Bixby Snyder]

It's basically only played on the northern island of Hokkaido and is such a fringe sport it gets no funding from the government.

 

[ijuka]

Genetics mainly.
Remember that Youtube phenom Aito Iguchi? His draft year was just this year and he was 5'3" and 117 pounds. Obviously not on any teams' radars.

Even if he was bigger he would not have gotten drafted. He's not played a single game of relevant hockey. You don't get drafted for a youtube clip from when you were 10.

 

[Zenos]

Genetics mainly.
Remember that Youtube phenom Aito Iguchi? His draft year was just this year and he was 5'3" and 117 pounds. Obviously not on any teams' radars.

Also doesn't help that it's not typical sport in Japan with no major international success to help build interest. Curling is a non-typical sport that's growing there thanks to the Olympic bronze they won in 2018

No, it's definitely not mainly genetics.

I'm not going to pretend that size plays no role at all (the average Japanese male is 170cm tall / the average Canadian 178) - because obviously there is a difference there. But Japan produces good players in other disciplines - including soccer, baseball, (granted, not as physical sports, but what about Rugby union?) - so I don't think that's the main hinderance.

Rather, it mostly comes down to a lack of opportunity / infrastructure. There's very few clubs and the major league only had 6 teams for decades before folding entirely. It's only fairly recently been replaced by an 8 team pan-asian league. It's pretty clear that most of the registered players are basically hobby-level players. In that respect it's a bit like Canada in soccer. Tons of people play the game - but (at least until recently) there were few avenues to progress. A solid domestic league, good professional teams, and a program focused on player development are needed to translate some of that participation into success.

 

[Mathieukferland]

No, it's definitely not mainly genetics.

I'm not going to pretend that size plays no role at all (the average Japanese male is 170cm tall / the average Canadian 178) - because obviously there is a difference there. But Japan produces good players in other disciplines - including soccer, baseball, (granted, not as physical sports, but what about Rugby union?) - so I don't think that's the main hinderance.

Rather, it mostly comes down to a lack of opportunity / infrastructure. There's very few clubs and the major league only had 6 teams for decades before folding entirely. It's only fairly recently been replaced by an 8 team pan-asian league. It's pretty clear that most of the registered players are basically hobby-level players. In that respect it's a bit like Canada in soccer. Tons of people play the game - but (at least until recently) there were few avenues to progress. A solid domestic league, good professional teams, and a program focused on player development are needed to translate some of that participation into success.

All their rugby players for the “big” positions are imports from Polynesia or New Zealand

 

[Zenos]

All their rugby players for the “big” positions are imports from Polynesia or New Zealand

Ok, I'll give you that
But I still contest the idea that the biggest obstacle to Japanese hockey success is genetics.

 

[Hanji]

All their rugby players for the “big” positions are imports from Polynesia or New Zealand

Right, but this has nothing to do with hockey. Hockey players are nothing special compared to the genetically freakish athletes required in sports like American football, basketball, rugby, etc.

If Japan put as much resources into hockey they do baseball, they'd be a really good hockey country. They're damn good in baseball.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Right, but this has nothing to do with hockey. Hockey players are nothing special compared to the genetically freakish athletes required in sports like American football, basketball, rugby, etc.

If Japan put as much resources into hockey they do baseball, they'd be a really good hockey country. They're damn good in baseball.

arent they great in karate and samauri fighting too?

 

[Jumptheshark]

It's basically only played on the northern island of Hokkaido and is such a fringe sport it gets no funding from the government.

Not quite but almost on point. Although there are lots registered. There are not many ice surfaces.

Also, some are registered as in parts of Japan you have to register for a sport, when in school to qualify for somethings. So, even though they are registered it does not mean they play. A box was checked for academic reasons

 

[J bo Jeans]

Right, but this has nothing to do with hockey. Hockey players are nothing special compared to the genetically freakish athletes required in sports like American football, basketball, rugby, etc.

If Japan put as much resources into hockey they do baseball, they'd be a really good hockey country. They're damn good in baseball.

Japan could never be good at basketball. Basketball is one of the only sports where height is the biggest factor. And its not even remotely close height is the single biggest determiner of a basketball players success. Cutting out 99% of the population really limits how many great athletes there are in the NBA.

 

[sexydonut]

really don't want to get into a eugenics-tinged debate here...

height is impacted by nutrition and environment.

-median height in europe has changed drastically over the past few centuries
-african americans are much taller than subsaharan africans
-japan's diet is still relatively low on red meat and dairy

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

I think I got an answer from here to a similar thread years ago.

I don’t think Japan and China show enough interest to start a domestic youth program. Isn’t hockey in Japan more popular in the north?

 

[sexydonut]

I think I got an answer from here to a similar thread years ago.

I don’t think Japan and China show enough interest to start a domestic youth program. Isn’t hockey in Japan more popular in the north?

that's the impression i got as well. difficult to promote a sport when it isn't traditionally played, has a risk of injury, and training is expensive and inconvenient. the beijing KHL team draws flies, yet beijing itself is a large and wealthy place.

ironically the "genetic" excuse for being lousy at hockey has been traditionally used to explain the east asians being bad at a sport they care about: soccer.

but japan and korea now have good national soccer teams. china still sucks, yet they look at their neighbors and realize eugenics cannot be an excuse anymore.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Spitballing, but there's no local infrastructure to turn talented youths into talented adults, and the culture shock precludes most potential kids from moving overseas to continue their career.

Remember that Youtube phenom Aito Iguchi? His draft year was just this year and he was 5'3" and 117 pounds. Obviously not on any teams' radars.

To use him as an example, he needed to head over to Canada or a European country at some point, preferably 12-13 when he was first discovered, but at least when he was 15-16.

 

[sexydonut]

^why is canada so bad at gymnastics or badminton? plenty of canadians play these respective sports too. plenty of money to be made from success at these sports.

oz media has an annual aussie rules football game in china. yet they wonder why the sport has not caught on. ditto with their endless yet somehow facile attempts at attaining popularity in other foreign places.

for north americans, do you know/care about aussie rules football?

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

that's the impression i got as well. difficult to promote a sport when it isn't traditionally played, has a risk of injury, and training is expensive and inconvenient. the beijing KHL team draws flies, yet beijing itself is a large and wealthy place.

ironically the "genetic" excuse for being lousy at hockey has been traditionally used to explain the east asians being bad at a sport they care about: soccer.

but japan and korea now have good national soccer teams. china still sucks, yet they look at their neighbors and realize eugenics cannot be an excuse anymore.

I remember commenting on a thread years ago when I first became a member on this site saying that Asia could potentially be a hotbed for hockey talent if invested properly and the hockey purists scolded me for it. Geo-politics aside, if China invested and really took the time to build up it's hockey program, yes they could theoretically become a big player in that space.

Knowing how the Chinese/Japanese/Koreans are manufacturing kings, they could save money by just having a company produce 'cheaper' equipment

 

[Dallas Winston]

Japanese men are not tall

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

According to the most recent (2018) roster for Japan’s national team on Wikipedia, they had 15 players on it listed at >175 cm/5’9”, and Eliteprospects has its average height listed as 177,64 cm/5’10” which, yes, is pretty small for international hockey, but most of their national team players are still comfortably above a “height cutoff” where not even amazing players stand a chance to make it in the top 5 hockey leagues. I think this implies that the quality of Japanese hockey development would be the bigger culprit.

Someone already suggested it, but I think it’s reasonable to think that some of the Japanese talent should have moved abroad at some point if they wanted to reach their full potential. I mean, schools of players in their mid-to-late teens, from what I’d deem good hockey countries, are already moving to Sweden or Finland each year to further their development: it’s probably not because of their height.

However: those player registration numbers are ALWAYS iffy. There’s virtually no common standard between countries, as far as I’m aware, and you can’t compare the numbers at face value.

 

[Shinjuku Calling]

Genetics mainly.

lol F

 

[Bubbles]

There's just no infrastructure or culture associated with hockey. Baseball, soccer are the dominant sports and it's such a big part of their culture that their high school games are broadcast on television (much like college football in the US.)

It's like asking why baseball is not popular in Sweden.

And hockey is only popular in the north regions like Hokkaido where it's not as populated as the southern islands of Japan.

 

[Albatros]

There's just no infrastructure or culture associated with hockey. Baseball, soccer are the dominant sports and it's such a big part of their culture that their high school games are broadcast on television (much like college football in the US.).

Though representing your school is always a pretty big thing, even in fringe sports like hockey. Here you can watch the matches of the last intercollegiate games for example:

応援.TV - 日本学生氷上競技連盟ホッケー部門

(After choosing the game an ad will play, click to the end of this and the game recording will start)