Evaluate Snow's performance. There seems to a different idea of what criteria to use, so just choose, based on how happy you are with what he's accomplished.
How happy are you with Garth Snow?
- Thread starter rikker
- Start date
SLAPSHOT723
QU! Bobcats!
Gets a B. I want him to gain more veterans like he did with Visnovsky, but I love almost every player he's ever drafted.
Quicklime
Registered User
If Snow were gone in 2 seasons, any new GM would have an infinitely easier job. New building, great prospects, franchise center already acquired. They could come in and start making trades and half the fan base would throw Snow under the bus for not doing things similar, when by value were impossible during his tenure. To have a cup by now considering the state of the team when he took over is a task on par with making it from LA to NY in 3 days on a unicycle - not happening.
He's not perfect, but he gets ripped too much. B- for now, trending upward, "haters keep hatin'" (I only slightly kid) but as my belief is that now isn't the time to trade any two potentially good prospects with whom the NYI have contract control for one NHL'er with which they don't, I feel we're on the right track.
As an addendum -
Imagine how silly we'd feel if we traded, say......Cizikas for Cammalleri? The argument could be made that he helps our offense now, but I wouldn't make that trade having had a glimpse at what Cizikas could do already during the Playoffs.
Another addendum -
If no one else has an easier way, I may have to go and see exactly what Philly, Ottawa and LA had under the hood when they executed their supposed 'immediate-to-two-season' rebuilds and compare that with what the Isles had when Snow took over, since I hear the "he's an idiot"/"why couldn't he do it their way" arguments enough. None of them had to remove the two former faces of their franchise in buyouts (though Philly is debatable as they'll do it on a whim - Bryzgalov, who wasn't why they sucked last year and Brière......must be that Comcast money.....) Ottawa did similar to what the Isles did and don't have much money, but they did have Alfie and are the Canadian capital city. LA benefitted from the Flyers shipping the party boys off and catching lightning in a bottle as an 8th seed, which the Isles almost did themselves a few months ago.
He's not perfect, but he gets ripped too much. B- for now, trending upward, "haters keep hatin'" (I only slightly kid) but as my belief is that now isn't the time to trade any two potentially good prospects with whom the NYI have contract control for one NHL'er with which they don't, I feel we're on the right track.
As an addendum -
Imagine how silly we'd feel if we traded, say......Cizikas for Cammalleri? The argument could be made that he helps our offense now, but I wouldn't make that trade having had a glimpse at what Cizikas could do already during the Playoffs.
Another addendum -
If no one else has an easier way, I may have to go and see exactly what Philly, Ottawa and LA had under the hood when they executed their supposed 'immediate-to-two-season' rebuilds and compare that with what the Isles had when Snow took over, since I hear the "he's an idiot"/"why couldn't he do it their way" arguments enough. None of them had to remove the two former faces of their franchise in buyouts (though Philly is debatable as they'll do it on a whim - Bryzgalov, who wasn't why they sucked last year and Brière......must be that Comcast money.....) Ottawa did similar to what the Isles did and don't have much money, but they did have Alfie and are the Canadian capital city. LA benefitted from the Flyers shipping the party boys off and catching lightning in a bottle as an 8th seed, which the Isles almost did themselves a few months ago.
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CREW99AW
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2002
- 40,928
- 3,389
I gave him B-.
Great on contracts, building the prospect pool and finding solid waiver pickups.
He gets negative marks for stubbornly holding onto impending ufas , even with his team out of the playoff race. His pissed away a 5th overall pick and now is leaking the info, he was not sold on that prospect. Snow 's biggest offseason needs were upgrading the goaltending and Streit's replacement. I can understand going with Donovan because he has had back to back strong seasons. I wanted a stronger goaltending duo , then Nabby/Poulin.
Great on contracts, building the prospect pool and finding solid waiver pickups.
He gets negative marks for stubbornly holding onto impending ufas , even with his team out of the playoff race. His pissed away a 5th overall pick and now is leaking the info, he was not sold on that prospect. Snow 's biggest offseason needs were upgrading the goaltending and Streit's replacement. I can understand going with Donovan because he has had back to back strong seasons. I wanted a stronger goaltending duo , then Nabby/Poulin.
DktrFaustus
Registered User
for locking up the core of this team on the cheap and ridding of the bad elements plaguing this franchise, he's worth a B. anything else can and should be attributed to snow having his hands tied behind his back. i'd say the true evaluation of snow as a legit GM is going to come within the next few years.
Garth has done real well building through our farm system and waiver wires but he failed to get us a quality goaltender again this offseason despite how many were available. We might make the playoffs again this year but we won't go anywhere as long as Nabby is still here and I doubt Poulin will be any better.
MatthewBarnabysTears
Registered User
- Mar 18, 2013
- 2,579
- 575
I said a B. I don't want to grade on a curve; sure, there's financial restraints, but going 5 years with no playoffs is inexcusable regardless. If I was grading Snow for his first few years, I'd have given him a C- or a D. But I think he's learned a lot on the job, which makes sense considering he started with zero front office experience.
Doshell Propivo
Registered User
- Dec 5, 2005
- 11,233
- 7,294
MattMartin
Crypto Dbag™
You guys convinced me. A.
Shoot, A+, what the hell.
welcome to the 'light' side....
now, put your glasses on, grab some Kool-Aid, and join in! we're all over here by the fire, singing Kumbaya....
Isles Junkie
Registered User
I think he's scared to make a significant move out of a fear that it will blow up in his face.
This organization has needed for the last 4 years a top line winger, a #1 dman, a #1 goalie we can build around and a #2 center and he has acquired a grand total of ZERO of them. Granted a lot of that is on Wang, but he's been so incredibly gunshy on the trade front it isn't even funny.
On the other side, he has drafted fairly well, and recently he has let his players develop properly. He has done an INCREDIBLE job retaining our own players.
Overall I'd say he's a C+
This organization has needed for the last 4 years a top line winger, a #1 dman, a #1 goalie we can build around and a #2 center and he has acquired a grand total of ZERO of them. Granted a lot of that is on Wang, but he's been so incredibly gunshy on the trade front it isn't even funny.
On the other side, he has drafted fairly well, and recently he has let his players develop properly. He has done an INCREDIBLE job retaining our own players.
Overall I'd say he's a C+
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OlTimeHockey
Registered User
He IMPROVED to a B+ in my eyes, after being a D two years ago. Tavares was and is a no brainer.....to not draft him would be akin to drafting Bobby Ryan, a very good player, or Jack Johnson, a very strong selection, over Sidney Crosby. Snow went with the wunderkind.
So Snow does not get credit for success, just not failing with the obvious selection.
Moulson....a solid pick Tavares helped. PAP a solid gamble that paid off, Tavares helped.
Viz is a Snow gamble that was there for the picking and Snow gets credit.
Streit a gamble....he was a defenseman playing forward but had talent. Streit paid off to a big surprise....then tailed off.
DP....Wang tied his hands. Snow got the buyout done. Eventually.
Nino....bad pick. Sizeable winger, worth a gamble but Snow loses because he promoted him too soon, and Nino and his agent did NOT need ammo to feed their childish delusions. Nino sucked and we got a very good/KEY asset in return....Snow won big in the end.
I gave him a B because of his veteran players brought in from Pandolfo, Rolston, Reasoner, etc. not helping or filling needs, of course, but Snow made me eat my words with a solid job.
He's still a middle of the pack GM but has trended upwards thanks to his drafting.
So Snow does not get credit for success, just not failing with the obvious selection.
Moulson....a solid pick Tavares helped. PAP a solid gamble that paid off, Tavares helped.
Viz is a Snow gamble that was there for the picking and Snow gets credit.
Streit a gamble....he was a defenseman playing forward but had talent. Streit paid off to a big surprise....then tailed off.
DP....Wang tied his hands. Snow got the buyout done. Eventually.
Nino....bad pick. Sizeable winger, worth a gamble but Snow loses because he promoted him too soon, and Nino and his agent did NOT need ammo to feed their childish delusions. Nino sucked and we got a very good/KEY asset in return....Snow won big in the end.
I gave him a B because of his veteran players brought in from Pandolfo, Rolston, Reasoner, etc. not helping or filling needs, of course, but Snow made me eat my words with a solid job.
He's still a middle of the pack GM but has trended upwards thanks to his drafting.
Hip Of Rick*
Snow Must Go!
B-
Has failed to address team needs. Goaltending is a huge issue.
Done well building a prospect pool. Seems to be his number 1 goal...which is a positive and negative
Has failed to address team needs. Goaltending is a huge issue.
Done well building a prospect pool. Seems to be his number 1 goal...which is a positive and negative
Kevin27nyi
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2009
- 20,014
- 6,655
B+.
Isles are set up well going forward and finally made the playoffs. Key guys are locked up long term and at very good prices.
Isles are set up well going forward and finally made the playoffs. Key guys are locked up long term and at very good prices.
It is unrealistic to give him one grade since much of what he is trying to build still needs time to show.
Some parts of the operation, like contracts, getting guys signed, getting team buy in I would give him B+ through A.
Under drafting there have been good and bad decisions, and some strange trends, like the all defenseman draft or Waterloo hangup. In general I like what he has done here, but Nino, and going with CdH vs. three other picks in hand...
Development has seen some hiccups but the quality of the quantity has been pretty good to date.
Failing to make the bold move for a solid defenseman, John's wing, or the recent goaltender unresolved issue are F's.
I could go on, but I see a mixed bag to a degree. Better than Milbury? 100% yes, but there are at least 25 other GMs I would put ahead of him so that isn't exactly an accomplishment, more like a sigh of relief
Final Grade: Incomplete.
Some parts of the operation, like contracts, getting guys signed, getting team buy in I would give him B+ through A.
Under drafting there have been good and bad decisions, and some strange trends, like the all defenseman draft or Waterloo hangup. In general I like what he has done here, but Nino, and going with CdH vs. three other picks in hand...
Development has seen some hiccups but the quality of the quantity has been pretty good to date.
Failing to make the bold move for a solid defenseman, John's wing, or the recent goaltender unresolved issue are F's.
I could go on, but I see a mixed bag to a degree. Better than Milbury? 100% yes, but there are at least 25 other GMs I would put ahead of him so that isn't exactly an accomplishment, more like a sigh of relief
Final Grade: Incomplete.
ScaredStreit
Registered User
D. after 7 years if you combined all of the playoff games the team has won under him-they don't even add up to a single playoff series win.
His job is to ice a winning team. Last season we were average (I know saying that ruffles a lot of feathers around here-but let's be honest 8/15 is smack-dab in the middle). Add Detroit and Columbus to a lesser extent, and it's an uphill battle to reach average in the conference next year.
He's failed to bring a long-term solution to goaltending, still has a pretty weak defensive unit, lackluster 1 line other than an obvious 1st overall pick (a gift for being the worst team in the league btw), questionable coaching hiring, lack of trading, other than JT and Hamonic a lack of impact players drafted.
I get why people would go as high as C or C+....but at the end of the day professional sports is about winning. And under Snow we haven't won or proven anything. We were all giddy about the playoffs last season because it's been 20 years since we won a series. In short: we as Islanders have set the bar LOW.
His job is to ice a winning team. Last season we were average (I know saying that ruffles a lot of feathers around here-but let's be honest 8/15 is smack-dab in the middle). Add Detroit and Columbus to a lesser extent, and it's an uphill battle to reach average in the conference next year.
He's failed to bring a long-term solution to goaltending, still has a pretty weak defensive unit, lackluster 1 line other than an obvious 1st overall pick (a gift for being the worst team in the league btw), questionable coaching hiring, lack of trading, other than JT and Hamonic a lack of impact players drafted.
I get why people would go as high as C or C+....but at the end of the day professional sports is about winning. And under Snow we haven't won or proven anything. We were all giddy about the playoffs last season because it's been 20 years since we won a series. In short: we as Islanders have set the bar LOW.
because most of us are happy with the progression over the course of the last few years, does not mean that we set the bar low. IMO, it means that we are not expecting miracles overnight. if Snow was given the green light to spend to the max, then i agree that we should expect more. but, we are stuck with the turtle approach, and Snow has done a decent job with it.
C+ for now
A grade of A or B would require that the teams is more successful than it has been. One playoff appearance and an 8th place finish is NOT enough.
That being said Garth has had some difficult circumstances to deal with as we all know.
I feel that the building of this team through the draft and waiver wire only (with the exception of acquiring Visnovsky and Smyth up to this offseason) was NOT enough in my opinion. The lack of adding veteran players through trade and signings has made this rebuild take a longer and more difficult path. This is the first off season where Garth made a trade (Niederreitter for Clutterbuck) and sigining of PM Bouchard and Regin. We will have to wait to see how that pans out.
The draft has technically only produced Tavares,Bailey,Hamonic and Cizikas to this point. Nielsen and Okposo were NOT Garth Snow selections.Tavares was a gimme. Hamonic was the only successful 2ND ROUND pick to date. Terrible 2nd round drafting so far. In the same draft as Hamonic, Garth drafted Aaron Ness higher! Other 2nd round picks have not been successful to be blunt(Corey Trevino,Mikko Koskinen). To be fair, most recent 2nd round picks picks look to have a better future (Ville Pokka,Scott Mayfield) but a team building through the draft needs to produce better results.
Niederreitter selection was POOR. For a team that drafts players based on character as well as skill. I am not going to let Garth get a pass. They didn't read him well enough and took a bing chance. Teams that rely on the draft like the Islanders simply can not let that happen. Certainly should have traded him sooner tahn later if they felt he was not panning out. The bungled and botched that one. Cluttterbuck will be a good addition and should not be blamed or compared to a top 5 pick.
Goaltending has been curiously the achilles heel for an GM who was an ex goaltender. The drafting of goaltending has been unsuccessful to this point (Nilsson and Poulin are still unknown factors). Garth expended a few more picks this draft on gioalies.
Going into this season with Nabokov and Poulin could be a problem. How will Nabokov be over an 82 game season. Can Poulin be competent enough. He will need to play 20 to 25 games. He has to show he can play at the NHL level. Nilsson has to have a successful development in Bridgeport. Mikko Koskinen is not on the horizon as he is signed in Europe.
Defense up until more recent drafts has been neglected. Waiver wire pick ups Strait and Hickey are the only additions. Carkner is a depth 6th or 7th defenseman. Hickey is small but could be effective enough. Overall the defense is small. DeHaan, Donovan, Mayfield, Reinhart, Pullock, Pokka, and possibly others like Pedan on the way. But the defense as currently constructed is average at best.
There is hope and I hope Garth finds a way to continue to find ways to improve this team.
Barry
A grade of A or B would require that the teams is more successful than it has been. One playoff appearance and an 8th place finish is NOT enough.
That being said Garth has had some difficult circumstances to deal with as we all know.
I feel that the building of this team through the draft and waiver wire only (with the exception of acquiring Visnovsky and Smyth up to this offseason) was NOT enough in my opinion. The lack of adding veteran players through trade and signings has made this rebuild take a longer and more difficult path. This is the first off season where Garth made a trade (Niederreitter for Clutterbuck) and sigining of PM Bouchard and Regin. We will have to wait to see how that pans out.
The draft has technically only produced Tavares,Bailey,Hamonic and Cizikas to this point. Nielsen and Okposo were NOT Garth Snow selections.Tavares was a gimme. Hamonic was the only successful 2ND ROUND pick to date. Terrible 2nd round drafting so far. In the same draft as Hamonic, Garth drafted Aaron Ness higher! Other 2nd round picks have not been successful to be blunt(Corey Trevino,Mikko Koskinen). To be fair, most recent 2nd round picks picks look to have a better future (Ville Pokka,Scott Mayfield) but a team building through the draft needs to produce better results.
Niederreitter selection was POOR. For a team that drafts players based on character as well as skill. I am not going to let Garth get a pass. They didn't read him well enough and took a bing chance. Teams that rely on the draft like the Islanders simply can not let that happen. Certainly should have traded him sooner tahn later if they felt he was not panning out. The bungled and botched that one. Cluttterbuck will be a good addition and should not be blamed or compared to a top 5 pick.
Goaltending has been curiously the achilles heel for an GM who was an ex goaltender. The drafting of goaltending has been unsuccessful to this point (Nilsson and Poulin are still unknown factors). Garth expended a few more picks this draft on gioalies.
Going into this season with Nabokov and Poulin could be a problem. How will Nabokov be over an 82 game season. Can Poulin be competent enough. He will need to play 20 to 25 games. He has to show he can play at the NHL level. Nilsson has to have a successful development in Bridgeport. Mikko Koskinen is not on the horizon as he is signed in Europe.
Defense up until more recent drafts has been neglected. Waiver wire pick ups Strait and Hickey are the only additions. Carkner is a depth 6th or 7th defenseman. Hickey is small but could be effective enough. Overall the defense is small. DeHaan, Donovan, Mayfield, Reinhart, Pullock, Pokka, and possibly others like Pedan on the way. But the defense as currently constructed is average at best.
There is hope and I hope Garth finds a way to continue to find ways to improve this team.
Barry
Aucoin3
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- Aug 9, 2005
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I gave him a B. I believe he has done a good job filling the roster without a budget but bad draft choices in the first round hurt him a lot. Nino, deHaan. Just going by the predraft rankings we could have had Cam Fowler and Zach Kassian. Those two picks haunt him. Both were off the charts and neither panned out.
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