How good would Theo Fleury be in the modern league and without issues?

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Apologies for that mess of a thread title, but I’m curious- how do you think he’d do in the modern game? Assuming he was in a better place mentally, as well. No drug or alcohol issues, the terrible thing that happened to him not having happened.

Dude had a 50 goal season, 100 point seasons. My understanding is the early ‘90s when he did this were still pretty high scoring, but what about ‘95-‘96 when he put up 96 points?

I gotta think without the clutch and grab he’d be pushing for 120+ points at his peak. Not sure how much staying out of the box and being healthier would help, but it couldn’t hurt. More mobile defensemen of today might lead to less of an improvement than I think, however.

Also, put this dude in the hall. Showed a whole generation of short kings that it can be done.

 

[GMR]

Much better than before. Smaller players had it way tougher back then.

 

[jaysoneil]

His Celly game would be still elite.

 

[tiburon12]

Fleury's prime years are before my vintage (though I remember watching him in NY), but whenever i watch highlight packages, seems like all of his goals were 5-hole / on the ice. Those shots just arent there as much anymore, so i wonder how prolific of a shooter he would be against good goalies.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Given what we know about Theo now as a person, who cares. He's a tool box missing the tools and tool box.

 

[Cant Kick On 1 Foot]

Given what we know about Theo now as a person, who cares. He's a tool box missing the tools and tool box.

The guy was basically robbed of his toolbox and his tools when he was just a teenager. He’s had massive struggles that you couldn’t even comprehend because of it.

 

[Machinehead]

I kind of push back at the idea that it would be any different now.

-Fluery played his peak years from '89-'96 which is one of the highest scoring eras in hockey history.
-"Clutch and grab" isn't as obvious as it used to be but interference-not-interference is at an all-time high.
-It's not any easier for small players. Four organizations had Jonathan Marchessault under contract and went "eh, no thanks."

 

[Tom Polakis]

Given what we know about Theo now as a person, who cares. He's a tool box missing the tools and tool box.

The OP cares. I care. Too many people have problems separating the art from the artist.

The OP asked how Fleury would do on the ice today. I agree with the point made earlier by @Machinehead that interference is as bad as ever, so I don't think he'd fare any better. He was a tough little shit, though, and he'd probably do at least as well in playoffs as regular season.

 

[Salsa Shark]

He was great scorer on the 89-96 wide open NHL.
He was great for the NYR in stretches when he played there early 2000s during the DPE.

I think it's safe to assume he'd be what he was during any era. His demons derailed the career.

Just checked out the conspiracy stuff- was expecting much worse honestly.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Maybe he could try calling out the league instead of everything else under the sun.

 

[beowulf]

He could not play the same style for starters. Would that lead to more, the same or less production, hard to say.

 

[Habsrule]

I read both of his books, the first one is much better than the second. That guy went through hell and back and made him into the hockey player that he was.

With that being said if he didn’t go through all of the stuff he went through I don’t think he would be as good of a player. He had skill don’t get me wrong but he got by on playing with fire. With the OPs question of how good would he be without any of his issues I will say that he wouldn’t be as good.

 

[Goose]

The guy was basically robbed of his toolbox and his tools when he was just a teenager. He’s had massive struggles that you couldn’t even comprehend because of it.

Don’t underestimate how much that poster knows about being a tool box though.

 

[tfwnogf]

He would be 2nd-5th best scorer in the league every year

 

[kingsholygrail]

How good would Theo Fleury be if he wasn't Theo Fleury?

 

[JackSlater]

Viable candidate to finish top ten in scoring each year throughout his prime, peak in the top five, and some agitation in his game too. Sort of a weird Gaudreau/Marchand hybrid.

 

[Statto]

Apologies for that mess of a thread title, but I’m curious- how do you think he’d do in the modern game? Assuming he was in a better place mentally, as well. No drug or alcohol issues, the terrible thing that happened to him not having happened.

Dude had a 50 goal season, 100 point seasons. My understanding is the early ‘90s when he did this were still pretty high scoring, but what about ‘95-‘96 when he put up 96 points?

I gotta think without the clutch and grab he’d be pushing for 120+ points at his peak. Not sure how much staying out of the box and being healthier would help, but it couldn’t hurt. More mobile defensemen of today might lead to less of an improvement than I think, however.

Also, put this dude in the hall. Showed a whole generation of short kings that it can be done.

When we do these he doesn’t get to benefit from modern training, easier physicality, modern sticks and other equipment, etc … so he sucks.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The guy was basically robbed of his toolbox and his tools when he was just a teenager. He’s had massive struggles that you couldn’t even comprehend because of it.

First you don't know what anyone else has gone through. Second, Sheldon Kennedy also went through similar issues and didn't spew hateful and hurtful things on social media, outing his true colors as a person.

Theo did. It was ugly. What he went through does not excuse the hate he spread, himself. He did a great job sort of hiding who he really was and while I feel for what he went through and have worked with several people in a volunteer capacity that have gone through similar, the hateful things he's said is inexcusable. So I really don't care how he'd do in this era. It's like wondering what a racist and all around awful person like the late Bobby Hull would do today, who cares.

But I see you feel he's excused for that because of his history. That's not how that works.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I kind of push back at the idea that it would be any different now.

-Fluery played his peak years from '89-'96 which is one of the highest scoring eras in hockey history.
-"Clutch and grab" isn't as obvious as it used to be but interference-not-interference is at an all-time high.
-It's not any easier for small players. Four organizations had Jonathan Marchessault under contract and went "eh, no thanks."

Bedard is 5'10" and that's being generous. Marchessault is closer to 5'8" and Fleury was something like 5'6" and that isn't accurate either. I don't think based on playing in this era at his size he'd fare well.

I think Gallagher is the closest to the size, sort of, as well as style so maybe it'd be closer to that, Brendan's peak seasons + whatever buffer for Fleury and his skill.

 

[ryerockarola]

How good would Theo Fleury be if he wasn't Theo Fleury?

How good would Theo Fleury have been if he wasn't coached by Graham James in junior?

 

[PlayersLtd]

Highest paid player in the NHL at one point and was getting drunk and doing drugs under the Brooklyn Bridge with homeless people, showing up to Rangers practice on no sleep and still the best player out there.

Wayne called him up and asked if he could clean up in time for the Olympics and put all his faith in him. Theo got sober over night and was a huge part of the best Team Canada of all time. Passed all drug tests, took home gold.

Also, the Mike Keane stories.

If you haven't read "Fire On Ice" you should put it on your list for next Christmas and settle in with it during the world jr's.

 

[Cant Kick On 1 Foot]

First you don't know what anyone else has gone through. Second, Sheldon Kennedy also went through similar issues and didn't spew hateful and hurtful things on social media, outing his true colors as a person.

Theo did. It was ugly. What he went through does not excuse the hate he spread, himself. He did a great job sort of hiding who he really was and while I feel for what he went through and have worked with several people in a volunteer capacity that have gone through similar, the hateful things he's said is inexcusable. So I really don't care how he'd do in this era. It's like wondering what a racist and all around awful person like the late Bobby Hull would do today, who cares.

But I see you feel he's excused for that because of his history. That's not how that works.

I was responding to a comment that completely lacked any amount of empathy. The guy was raped multiple times as a teenage boy. He obviously has serious mental health issues. If you can’t see that for what it is then whatever. I’m not excusing him or his actions, but get serious.

You can’t compare one victim to the next. Like saying “hey this one heroin addict was able to cleanup and get his life back, yet here’s another who can’t rid the addiction so forget him.”

I’m not defending Theo’s political views in any way, but just know that the guy was completely robbed of his mental health when he was just a boy

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

First you don't know what anyone else has gone through. Second, Sheldon Kennedy also went through similar issues and didn't spew hateful and hurtful things on social media, outing his true colors as a person.

Theo did. It was ugly. What he went through does not excuse the hate he spread, himself. He did a great job sort of hiding who he really was and while I feel for what he went through and have worked with several people in a volunteer capacity that have gone through similar, the hateful things he's said is inexcusable. So I really don't care how he'd do in this era. It's like wondering what a racist and all around awful person like the late Bobby Hull would do today, who cares.

But I see you feel he's excused for that because of his history. That's not how that works.

People respond differently. It’s not certain that the abuse he suffered led him down an unfortunate path, but I think it’s a bit unfair to judge him without taking that into consideration. It doesn’t really excuse anything, it’s more trying to understand how he wound up where he did, and we’re assuming that in this alternate timeline he goes down an entirely different life path. How would that affect his hockey? If you don’t care to speculate, fair enough, but it’s weird to me to post just to shit on the guy. I’m as liberal as they come, I think his political/social views are nonsense, but I also think he was an incredible talent on the ice, and I like to wonder about a timeline where he wasn’t a mental mess. Either way, I hope you see how others not ending up totally f***ed up doesn’t really negate how the abuse could have messed up his psychology. Wasn’t really aiming to get into that whole discussion in the first place, but I suppose it’s part of any discussion with him.

 

[Chainshot]

I read both of his books, the first one is much better than the second. That guy went through hell and back and made him into the hockey player that he was.

With that being said if he didn’t go through all of the stuff he went through I don’t think he would be as good of a player. He had skill don’t get me wrong but he got by on playing with fire. With the OPs question of how good would he be without any of his issues I will say that he wouldn’t be as good.

That was what I was coming here to post. I don't think he would've played with the same sort of volatility so I wonder if he would have done some of the things he did. We don't know, but from a style perspective, I do wonder.

 

[wetcoast]

I read both of his books, the first one is much better than the second. That guy went through hell and back and made him into the hockey player that he was.

With that being said if he didn’t go through all of the stuff he went through I don’t think he would be as good of a player. He had skill don’t get me wrong but he got by on playing with fire. With the OPs question of how good would he be without any of his issues I will say that he wouldn’t be as good.

Came here to say something like this but mine wouldn't have been worded as well.

I'll add that sometimes going to hell and back has serious side effects.