How do you currently rank nations in hockey development ?

[NoMessi]

Canada
USA
Sweden
Russia
Finland

Czech Republic

Switzerland
Slovakia

Denmark
Germany
Latvia


Still funny that teams like Austria, Slovenia and Norway might be stronger than the ones in the last group.

A team with players outside of the obvious top 11 would include Kopitar, Vanek, Zuccarello, Grabner, Raffl, Martinsen and a lot of really good KHL players. I would accept that team in World Cup, but hated the idea of degrading Switzerland, Germany, Denmark, Latvia and Slovakia in last years tournament. 12 teams, almost a legit World Cup. I know I might be the only one, but just laying it out there.

As for answering to people above

http://www.eliteprospects.com/draft_by_nation.php?NationID=4

This is the list of drafted players form Slovakia. I hate to say it, but that isn't great. I hope you guys can get it together again. Would love for a new golden generation.


http://www.eliteprospects.com/draft_by_nation.php?NationID=21

Not great, but still decent. First real superstar in Draisaitl and a couple of good players, and a good goalie. This is a good generation that might be able to be get even better if players like Valenti reach high levels. We can hope that the success in WHC last time, and maybe again this year, can give the country another boost in the right direction.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/draft_by_nation.php?NationID=7

This is the biggest riser the last 15 years. With the start of Nielsen and now players drafted almost every year. Have been competitive in U20 and that is the biggest sign of progress. I heard a couple of years back that they were getting more arenas, anyone know how about that?

 

[Atas2000]

1. Canada
2. USA
3. Sweden
4. Russia
5. Finland

The top 3 is not even arguable IMO.

That is your problem.

Canada? McDavid who is phenom coming out of every big hockey nation every once in a while, but who else? Canada produces many players, but that's it.

Right now US has the edge easily. You can hate and underrate Russia all you want too Better for us.

 

[Namejs]

Oh come on... Yeah, our team at current WC is trash, but how is Latvia ahead of us? You should probably do some research on junior and u18 hockey.

EDIT: And I mean absolutely no disrespect to Latvia, I have always cheered for you and I wish you the best in ongoing WC.

Exactly.

Slovakia is half a step above us in every respect.

They have more players, more rinks, a bit more NHL prospects, more NHL players.

The gap between the two countries has closed up by a considerable margin during the last 10 years, but they're still better than us.

Germany doesn't have a balanced hockey system. Its domestic league is very solid for European standards, way better than the one in Denmark or Slovakia, but their national teams are a little underwhelming relative to the amount of players, rinks and money within the German hockey pyramid.

Their national team is pretty much in the same tier as Latvia.

Norway and Denmark are very similar in terms of all the underlying numbers, but the Danes have been very lucky with elite talent. Most likely its due to pure chance and I don't think they're going to have as many NHL players in the next generation, unless they can use the momentum to increase the popularity of the sport, which is still less popular than handball there. Which isn't very good at all.

So I would rank them as follows:

Canada/USA
Sweden
Russia/Finland
Czech Rep.

Switzerland (in between 1st and 2nd tier)

Slovakia
Germany
Denmark/Latvia/Norway
Belarus/France

And then comes the 3rd tier

Austria/Kazakhstan
Italy/Slovenia

4th tier

Hungary
Poland/South Korea

Quite a few of these lower tier hockey nations have decent domestic pro leagues, but they have closed hockey systems - the leading junior players mostly stay at home and don't get to improve beyond the quality of the Polish, Kazakh or Belarusian domestic leagues, which are all better than the Latvian domestic league, by the way. Yet Poland wouldn't really stand a chance against Latvia.

Countries like Latvia or Slovenia don't have that many active players, but their leading prospects are mostly playing abroad, which leads to a much higher efficiency. Protectionism doesn't work unless your base of resources is big enough (Russia, Switzerland, etc.).

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

That is your problem.

Canada? McDavid who is phenom coming out of every big hockey nation every once in a while, but who else? Canada produces many players, but that's it.

Right now US has the edge easily. You can hate and underrate Russia all you want too Better for us.

Yea I think it's hard to argue that Canada has been bringing more high level talent into the league than the USA over the last 2 drafts.

Matthews
Eichel
Werenski
Hanifin
McAvoy
Tkachuk
Keller

I would say that as of today, only McDavid and Marner could break into that top 7.

After McDavid and Marner, there is a bit of a drop off since 2015. Even going back to 2014, which at the time looked to be a strong top end draft for Canadians, looks much weaker today. I don't think Ekblad will be as good as advertised, same with Reinhart and Bennett. Strome still has a ways to go as well. Guys like Konecny and Beauvillier are very promising but not in the tier of the top guys from the USA group.

I would even look to the U23 NA team that had more Americans than Canadians.

 

[Zamuz]

That is your problem.

Canada? McDavid who is phenom coming out of every big hockey nation every once in a while, but who else? Canada produces many players, but that's it.

Right now US has the edge easily. You can hate and underrate Russia all you want too Better for us.

Please

When is the last time more players were drafted to the NHL from the USA rather than Canada? probably never has been.
Also hockey is more than just juniors, when is the last time USA won anything major in hockey?

Canada >> USA

 

[21]

Sweden vs Finland

Finland better in developing goalies with rare historic exceptions like Lundqvist.

Sweden much better defensemen in general, almost uncomparable. You could say that Sweden is developing the best defensive players in the world.

Forwards, well, it differs... Finland was ahead in the NHL draft 2016, that's for sure.

I would say Sweden little bit ahead of Finland looking from now and 10 years back but it's a very close one.

USA vs Russia is a difficult one.

Canada
USA
Russia
Sweden
Finland

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Please

When is the last time more players were drafted to the NHL from the USA rather than Canada? probably never has been.
Also hockey is more than just juniors, when is the last time USA won anything major in hockey?

Canada >> USA

I think the argument is that the USA has been producing more high end talent over the last 3-5 years. They have more talent at the U18, U20, and U23 levels.

I don't see senior level tournament wins as having nearly as much to do with talent development.

 

[X66]

That is your problem.

Canada? McDavid who is phenom coming out of every big hockey nation every once in a while, but who else? Canada produces many players, but that's it.

Right now US has the edge easily. You can hate and underrate Russia all you want too Better for us.

Volume is a part of what makes Canada ranked #1 on my list.

Look at the context of the OP's question.

Look at it from all levels.

Who owns best on best tournaments?

Who produces the most players?

You can say the US has an edge over Canada the last few years, but those are the ups and downs of program periods, Canada will continue to chug along.

The OP is talking about the country as a whole, no one is at Canada's level today.

 

[Atas2000]

Please

When is the last time more players were drafted to the NHL from the USA rather than Canada? probably never has been.
Also hockey is more than just juniors, when is the last time USA won anything major in hockey?

Canada >> USA

Who cares about how many players were drafted? Who cares what Canada won in the 20's?

Exactly as I wrote. There are many players coming from Canada's development. But how many are real superstars? Recently US produces many high profile prospects. More than Canada. The hype around McDavid seems to make people forget to look behind him. Right here and now there are many more great young players coming from the US.

 

[21]

Canada will most probably be the top ranked nation in a foreseeable future.

The interest for hockey in Canada is not big, it is hysterical.

In countries like USA, Sweden, Russia and Finland we practice other sports too. ;-)

It's almost exactly like Norway in Nordic Skiing, no other country will probably ever threat them as the best country in the world in Nordic Skiing, it's what they do, Norweigans.

 

[Atas2000]

Volume is a part of what makes Canada ranked #1 on my list.

Look at the context of the OP's question.

Look at it from all levels.

Who owns best on best tournaments?

Who produces the most players?

You can say the US has an edge over Canada the last few years, but those are the ups and downs of program periods, Canada will continue to chug along.

The OP is talking about the country as a whole, no one is at Canada's level today.

Volume wins you what? The fact that Canada has so many junior players and produces less high end talent than other countries speaks volumes about Canada's deveopment system.

Nobody owns the best on best tourrnaments. I don't care about the canadian narrative. I guess to keep up that narrative the NHL cowardly pulled out of the best on best tournaments.

 

[TheTwelfth]

Canada - first, USA - second. No question here. Taking into account country size and latest junior champs I will place Finland on third and Sweden on forth. Russia is on fifth. With such population, number of players and money spent on hockey we are completely underachieving. Czech on sixth. New program they have show some results, Pasternak is a good example. Then Swiss, Germany, Slovakia, Denmark and Norway in around the same place.

You have to see really short term to put Finland ahead of Sweden. Finland has had some of their best generations come through the draft in the last 2-3 years and Sweden had some of their worst in a decade, but even at its worst Sweden is WAAAAAY better than they were between 96-2005 drafts. Sweden consistently has the third most players drafted of any nation, with a sizeable gap down to Finland. I would hold Sweden at least equal if not better than the United States if you factor in size of the countries. Obviously there has been a lack of high end forwards coming out of Sweden as compared to the US, and the goalie pool is rather bleak.

Russia is also much better than people give them credit for. Just since the last Olympics Tarasenko, Kucherov, Kuznetzov and Panarin have all established themselves among the elite scorers in the NHL, and we are now finally seeing some good defenders coming from Russia as well. Goalies is up there with the U.S and Finland.

1. Canada
T-2. Sweden
T-2. USA
T-4. Finland
T-4. Russia
6. Switzerland
7. Czech Republic
8. Denmark
9. Germany
10. Slovakia

 

[Namejs]

You have to see really short term to put Finland ahead of Sweden. Finland has had some of their best generations come through the draft in the last 2-3 years and Sweden had some of their worst in a decade, but even at its worst Sweden is WAAAAAY better than they were between 96-2005 drafts. Sweden consistently has the third most players drafted of any nation, with a sizeable gap down to Finland. I would hold Sweden at least equal if not better than the United States if you factor in size of the countries. Obviously there has been a lack of high end forwards coming out of Sweden as compared to the US, and the goalie pool is rather bleak.

Russia is also much better than people give them credit for. Just since the last Olympics Tarasenko, Kucherov, Kuznetzov and Panarin have all established themselves among the elite scorers in the NHL, and we are now finally seeing some good defenders coming from Russia as well. Goalies is up there with the U.S and Finland.

1. Canada
T-2. Sweden
T-2. USA
T-4. Finland
T-4. Russia
6. Switzerland
7. Czech Republic
8. Denmark
9. Germany
10. Slovakia

Denmark has no business being 8th. Just a place below the Czechs, seriously? You're looking way too much into the number of current NHL players. That number is so small that there's bound to be a lot of variance due to chance.

A bunch of ppg+ forwards in the Danish league wouldn't even make the German league.

 

[TheTwelfth]

Denmark has no business being 8th. Just a place below the Czechs, seriously? You're looking way too much into the number of current NHL players. That number is so small that there's bound to be a lot of variance due to chance.

A bunch of ppg+ forwards in the Danish league wouldn't even make the German league.

The Czech are sorely lacking top prospects. After Voracek it has been Zacha that looks like a bust and Pasternak. Denmark is a huge riser and Czech Republic is going the opposite direction.

Denmark is also (smartly) leeching off of some great hockey resources across the bridge. Växjö Lakers, Malmö Redhawks and Rögle have featured a lot of Danes in their senior and junior teams over the last few seasons.

They havent made up the difference yet, but they (DK) are trending much better than the Czech.

 

[Namejs]

The Czech are sorely lacking top prospects. After Voracek it has been Zacha that looks like a bust and Pasternak. Denmark is a huge riser and Czech Republic is going the opposite direction.

Denmark is also (smartly) leeching off of some great hockey resources across the bridge. Växjö Lakers, Malmö Redhawks and Rögle have featured a lot of Danes in their senior and junior teams over the last few seasons.

They havent made up the difference yet, but they (DK) are trending much better than the Czech.

None of the underlying numbers have changed for the Danes. The number of NHL players alone is not a very good indicator.

They are not trending upwards. They have improved immensely over the last 15 years, but there's a limit on what you can achieve with such a small amount of players, rinks, pro teams and such a mediocre general interest in hockey. And they have already surpassed that limit in a way, because the amount of talent being produced by them is unsustainable. If none of the underlying variables change, they're going to be worse in 15 years, not better.

They're a light year away from Czech Republic. Germany has a better hockey system in every respect.

 

[Zamuz]

Who cares about how many players were drafted? Who cares what Canada won in the 20's?

Exactly as I wrote. There are many players coming from Canada's development. But how many are real superstars? Recently US produces many high profile prospects. More than Canada. The hype around McDavid seems to make people forget to look behind him. Right here and now there are many more great young players coming from the US.

I mean who are the many high end profile prospects US has (can you give me a list)? I can list similar high end players from Canada who are young, also do not forget Nolan Patrick is Canadian.

 

[scipio]

Not sure if it's just me, but currently I wouldn't put Switzerland much ahead of Germany, Latvia, Denmark so on...Recently the development of the Swiss team has been quite disappointing to me. Especially after the silver medal.

 

[Zamuz]

Not sure if it's just me, but currently I wouldn't put Switzerland much ahead of Germany, Latvia, Denmark so on...Recently the development of the Swiss team has been quite disappointing to me. Especially after the silver medal.

Nah dude, Switzerland is greatly ahead IMO. The silver alone is better than any of the listed countries can even dream of.

Also you have some nice young players:
Nino Niederreiter
Sven Baertschi
Nico Hischier
Timo Meier
Kevin Fiala

 

[Xokkeu]

Not sure if it's just me, but currently I wouldn't put Switzerland much ahead of Germany, Latvia, Denmark so on...Recently the development of the Swiss team has been quite disappointing to me. Especially after the silver medal.

Switzerland is putting out first round talent almost every year. Latvia has one first rounder ever and he's not even very good. Germany has one gem in Draisaitl. I'd say Switzerland is a solid notch above those two countries.

 

[Snowsii]

Sweden vs Finland

Finland better in developing goalies with rare historic exceptions like Lundqvist.

Sweden much better defensemen in general, almost uncomparable. You could say that Sweden is developing the best defensive players in the world.

Forwards, well, it differs... Finland was ahead in the NHL draft 2016, that's for sure.

I would say Sweden little bit ahead of Finland looking from now and 10 years back but it's a very close one.

USA vs Russia is a difficult one.

Canada
USA
Russia
Sweden
Finland

For the bolded:

Yes, Sweden got quite a lead there, but no way they arent uncomparable..

- Ristolainen
- Määttä
- Honka
- Lindell
- Juolevi
- Välimäki
- Vaakanainen
- Heiskanen

Even though i would not be ashamed to call Swedens D's best in world.. Finlands youth isnt looking really bad anymore

Hopefully Finland continues producing these talents now on.

 

[Xokkeu]

For the bolded:

Yes, Sweden got quite a lead there, but no way they arent uncomparable..

- Ristolainen
- Määttä
- Honka
- Lindell
- Juolevi
- Välimäki
- Vaakanainen
- Heiskanen

Even though i would not be ashamed to call Swedens D's best in world.. Finlands youth isnt looking really bad anymore

Hopefully Finland continues producing these talents now on.

None of those guys really scream elite. Then again none of the Swedish guys born after OEL and Hedman really do either.

 

[Wooren]

The Czech are sorely lacking top prospects. After Voracek it has been Zacha that looks like a bust and Pasternak. Denmark is a huge riser and Czech Republic is going the opposite direction.

Denmark is also (smartly) leeching off of some great hockey resources across the bridge. Växjö Lakers, Malmö Redhawks and Rögle have featured a lot of Danes in their senior and junior teams over the last few seasons.

They havent made up the difference yet, but they (DK) are trending much better than the Czech.

Zacha is a 20 years old bust, Necas and Zadina (both better prospects than Zacha was) are not top prospects and Czechs are trending down.
You learn something new every day on HF Boards.

 

[FlameChampion]

1. Canada
2. USA
3. Sweden
4/5 Finland/Russia
6. Czech
7. Switz

 

[Bure80]

Exactly.

Slovakia is half a step above us in

So I would rank them as follows:

Canada/USA
Sweden
Russia/Finland
Czech Rep.

Switzerland (in between 1st and 2nd tier)

Slovakia
Germany
Denmark/Latvia/Norway
Belarus/France

And then comes the 3rd tier

Austria/Kazakhstan
Italy/Slovenia

4th tier

Hungary
Poland/South Korea

Best list for me The Denmark Hype is to big. Even they have improved much. Countries like Germany or Latvia are deeper.

 

[TheTwelfth]

None of those guys really scream elite. Then again none of the Swedish guys born after OEL and Hedman really do either.

Ignoring the fact that Larsson, Kylington and Liljegren were all at a point considered elite prospects (and Larsson is moving quickly into the elite defensive D status), you do know that the top prospect for 2018 draft is a Swedish defenseman (or Russian winger if you roll that way)?

For the bolded:

Yes, Sweden got quite a lead there, but no way they arent uncomparable..

- Ristolainen
- Määttä
- Honka
- Lindell
- Juolevi
- Välimäki
- Vaakanainen
- Heiskanen

Even though i would not be ashamed to call Swedens D's best in world.. Finlands youth isnt looking really bad anymore

Hopefully Finland continues producing these talents now on.

Still quite a gap, but I would say that Finland is starting to produce defensemen at a much better pace than Sweden produces forwards of similar quality

Also, I am getting super frustrated by all great/promising Swedish junior goalies that never seem to develop into NHL starter level goalies.