How Do Canadian Fans Feel About Sons of Former Can Stars Playing For the USA

[CrypTic]

taxes are too high in canada....thats one reason why canadian players become american citizens.........

That's undoubtedly true for some players. But taxes in California and some other states are also high. In 2013, combined state and federal income taxes were 47.6% and were recently raised to 48.6% for ppl with high incomes (though the extra 1% wouldn't hit the whole income). Sales taxes in the Bay Area range from 8.25 to 9.5%. (LA is 9%, Orange County - where Anaheim is located - is 8%. There is no federal sales tax like Canada has.) Property taxes are fairly low, though. (It can't exceed 1% of a home's assessed value.) I'm not sure how it compares to various provinces in Canada. Most immigrants' kids that I've known feel more American than X (whatever nationality/nationalties their parents had when they immigrated). They feel ties to both cultures.

Parts of Europe have higher taxes. Of course, you'd only be paying income taxes on the income you earn after you retire (if we're talking about players moving or staying somewhere after retirement).

It makes sense IMO if a player stays in the part of Canada or USA where they played. They've built a home, family, and friendships there. It would seem kind of weird if they move to a different part of the USA (if Canadian or European) or Canada (if from USA or Europe) but maybe they fell in love with that area or someone from there.

I think in Joe Thornton's case, he loves the area and since his wife is Swiss (and they spend time in Switzerland every summer), the USA kind of a neutral area for them both. I wouldn't be surprised to see him end up in Switzerland after he retires, though.

 

[FDBluth]

Their parents should be tried for treason and publicly hanged.

 

[OscarsCards]

They're born and raised so it's better this way not Kazakh, Belorussian, Italian or Croatian bought Canadians. I just feel sick about that.

 

[mjlee]

Where has he said that?

During an interview before the World Cup where he said he never sees himself moving back to Sweden and doesn't regard it as 'home' these days.

 

[saskganesh]

taxes are too high in canada....thats one reason why canadian players become american citizens.........

Taxes are arguably not high enough. Hockey players are no different from anyone else, they have social responsibilities too.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Don't care, personally. They were born and raised in the US, so by all rights, they're American.

But they're also Canadian by virtue of the Canadian Citizenship Act.

"Citizen by descent [paragraph 3(1)(b)]

Citizen’s date of birth: on or after February 15, 1977

Paragraph 3(1)(b) sets out that a person is a Canadian citizen if that person is born outside Canada to a Canadian parent on or after February 15, 1977."

 

[theaub]

As a dual citizen, this thread is going a lot more friendly than I thought it would when I saw it. I fully expected it to go full Sydney Leroux

Probably because its far more Teal Bunbury (a 100% acceptable decision, although he did switch sides a couple times and then ended up getting ****ed by the USSF) than Syd Leroux

 

[New User Name]

OP does kinda, sorta have an interesting point. Random example, but both my parents are Canadian and I was born in Montréal, but moved to the US at a young age (6). I played *very* high level soccer all through until I graduated High School. Obviously, I never made it, but had I ever gotten to the point of choosing, I would have chosen to represent the US without so much as a second thought. I was born Canadian, but I *am* American. No slight intended to Canada, it is a great country and I enjoy living here, but I am an American first.

If I ever did become something, would Canadian fans hold ill will towards me? The thought has occasionally crossed my mind out of idle curiosity.

Not anymore than Americans fans holding ill will towards you if the situation was reversed.

Question for you though. I understand why you would pick the US first. But what if the US team said no to you (because they were stacked) and Canada asked you to play for them.

 

[McBaevid]

Who cares? Being the son of a former player hardly means that player is gonna be a NHL star.

 

[New User Name]

That's undoubtedly true for some players. But taxes in California and some other states are also high. In 2013, combined state and federal income taxes were 47.6% and were recently raised to 48.6% for ppl with high incomes (though the extra 1% wouldn't hit the whole income). Sales taxes in the Bay Area range from 8.25 to 9.5%. (LA is 9%, Orange County - where Anaheim is located - is 8%. There is no federal sales tax like Canada has.) Property taxes are fairly low, though. (It can't exceed 1% of a home's assessed value.) I'm not sure how it compares to various provinces in Canada. Most immigrants' kids that I've known feel more American than X (whatever nationality/nationalties their parents had when they immigrated). They feel ties to both cultures.

Parts of Europe have higher taxes. Of course, you'd only be paying income taxes on the income you earn after you retire (if we're talking about players moving or staying somewhere after retirement).

It makes sense IMO if a player stays in the part of Canada or USA where they played. They've built a home, family, and friendships there. It would seem kind of weird if they move to a different part of the USA (if Canadian or European) or Canada (if from USA or Europe) but maybe they fell in love with that area or someone from there.

I think in Joe Thornton's case, he loves the area and since his wife is Swiss (and they spend time in Switzerland every summer), the USA kind of a neutral area for them both. I wouldn't be surprised to see him end up in Switzerland after he retires, though.

American born players usually go back. Phil Kessel even when he was playing for the Leafs had a full time home in Florida. I think JVR rents in Toronto and lives in the states during the summer too. Not sure about Gardner.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

I think what's more interesting is that so few kids with Euro parents playing in the NHL do not play for the US or Canada. Look at the Nylanders, they were both born in the North America, Willy played all his junior hockey until he was 14 in the US/Canada. He even had to get a dispensation from the IIHL to play for Sweden because he had not lived/played there long enough to qualify. Or someone like Alex Steen, born and bred in Canada, his family still live in Winnipeg and yet there was never a doubt that he'd represent any other country but Sweden.

Remember the big scandal in Nagano when Ulf Samuelsson got disqualified for being an American citizen and therefore lost his Swedish citizenship (at the time Sweden did not allow dual citizenship). His kids all played mostly in the US, possibly also holding dual citizenship (or at least they qualify because of birth) all represent Sweden internationally. I can't think of a Swedish kid born in NA who play for any other country but Sweden?

My feeling is that no one ever will with the possible exception of Erik Karlsson since he's said several times that he doesn't feel Swedish any more and his fiancée is Canadian and in all likelyhood all his kids will be born half-canadian in Canada, which I presume will qualify them for Canadian citizenship.

If they were to be born in Sweden (or any place else) from the Canadian fiancée, they would be Canadian...

 

[Hackett]

Must be hard to have Canadian players living and staying in the US post-career and have their kids develop into stars for the USA...

Its not hard.

The only thing is that it feels like the line between a Canadian and American can get blurred at times no matter what the citizenship says. However, its good for competition's sake. Right now, the gap between American and Canadian hockey is tight, and it will likely continue to get tighter. As long as the competition continues to be more or less on the same level, I'm content.

 

[BLNY]

If they were born in the USA, who else would they play for? Maybe if they had dual citizenship, you could make an argument. However, kids like Bellows have every right to play for the country they identify with.

 

[JackSlater]

OP does kinda, sorta have an interesting point. Random example, but both my parents are Canadian and I was born in Montréal, but moved to the US at a young age (6). I played *very* high level soccer all through until I graduated High School. Obviously, I never made it, but had I ever gotten to the point of choosing, I would have chosen to represent the US without so much as a second thought. I was born Canadian, but I *am* American. No slight intended to Canada, it is a great country and I enjoy living here, but I am an American first.

If I ever did become something, would Canadian fans hold ill will towards me? The thought has occasionally crossed my mind out of idle curiosity.

Perhaps some idiotic Canadian fans would hold it against you, but most wouldn't. For instance, I've never heard Canadians get mad that Cam Fowler plays for USA instead of Canada. You are a product of the American soccer system, so it makes sense that you would represent that country.

Not really "hard". Its a bit weird to see (not sure if "weird" is the right term either), but its understandable. If a Canadian superstar went on to have a kid that became an American superstar, that might be even weirder (like if Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman or Sakic etc had a kid who became a US national team star).

Like Bobby Hull and Gordie Howe?

 

[Celtic Note]

The US was founded by immigrants and immigrants continue to be an important part of our development as a country. Everyone of our families were immigrants, unless you are a pure native american.

So logically, why would anyone hate that an immigrant player represents the US, so as long as they are citizens?

 

[Larry44]

The US was founded by immigrants and immigrants continue to be an important part of our development as a country. Everyone of our families were immigrants, unless you are a pure native american.

So logically, why would anyone hate that an immigrant player represents the US, so as long as they are citizens?

Same applies to Canada. If a kid's American, he should play for you. Some have a choice, like Brett Hull, but choose the US because of better opportunities or whatever reason. All the more power to them. Americans haven't been too bothered by Canadian kids taking tops spots in the NBA draft either.

It's all good.

 

[canuckster19]

Who cares? Being the son of a former player hardly means that player is gonna be a NHL star.

Yeah but it often means they get undeserving chances over other players, it's really quite sad to see as well at young ages.

 

[Celtic Note]

Same applies to Canada. If a kid's American, he should play for you. Some have a choice, like Brett Hull, but choose the US because of better opportunities or whatever reason. All the more power to them. Americans haven't been too bothered by Canadian kids taking tops spots in the NBA draft either.

It's all good.

Agreed. I just didn't want to make any claims about Canada, since I am American.

As an aside, we are pretty much perfect neighbors IMO. A lot of positive similarities and some differences that help keep a grounded world view.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Yeah, that's the gist of it. Canadians are inundated with American culture, so it's mostly a comfortable place for them to live culturally. The climate in many places is better than that in Canada, and USA is a great country to live in if you have lots of money. If you've got an American wife who has run your household for years while you were in the NHL... it makes sense that you would stay in the United States where you and your family are already comfortable?

Even with the above said though, there are still cases where the Canadians come back. For instance, Pierre-Luc Dubois from the Canadian WJC team is the son of a Canadian professional hockey player and an American woman from the southern United States, and they moved back to Quebec.

That is the real key. Money. America is pretty average when you are poor or middle class, but has just about the best opportunities and lifestyle when you are wealthy. It's very business and investment friendly, and is designed to keep the wealthy a few levels above everyone else.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

Not anymore than Americans fans holding ill will towards you if the situation was reversed.

Question for you though. I understand why you would pick the US first. But what if the US team said no to you (because they were stacked) and Canada asked you to play for them.

Kind of a loaded question because if the USA said not to me, but Canada had apparently said yes, I would have no other choice.

If both said yes though, despite being born in Montréal, I would pick the USA.

 

[Inkling]

Kind of a loaded question because if the USA said not to me, but Canada had apparently said yes, I would have no other choice.

You would have another choice, which would be playing for no one and waiting for a future opportunity to play for the USA.

I can't remember names but I seem to recall a hockey player who wasn't chosen for Canada but had interest from another country he was qualified to represent, but he said 'no' and hoped for a future opportunity to play for Canada.

 

[McBaevid]

Yeah but it often means they get undeserving chances over other players, it's really quite sad to see as well at young ages.

That's because the N in NHL stands for Nepotism

 

[who_me?]

I don't understand why so many Canadian born players on US NHL teams decide to retire in the states. European players playing for Canadian or American NHL teams usually go back home. American born players playing in Canada are almost guaranteed to go back home.

Heck there's many cases of Canadians playing more years in Canada then are traded to a US team that stay.

Alfredsson couldn't get his family out of Canada quick enough when he went to Detroit. Even after only playing one year for the Red Wings they stayed in Michigan another year.......I think they moved back this year.

Can't be the weather, Sweden, Finland etc weathers similar to Canada's.

Can't be taxes, Sweden, Finlands taxes are similar to Canada.

Hell, many Canadian born players retire to upstate New York. Even Canadian officials move to the US. The best players in history are all now/were American, Howe, Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux.
Leafs president Shanahan is now American, so is Joe Thornton. Former Leafs GM Dave Nonis lives in Vermont or NH.

In fact I think it's extremely rare for Canadian born players to move back home after they retire. Of course they may return, to visit Mom, Dad and the old family dog once in a while

Anglophone Canada was originally settled by colonists from the southern American colonies during the latter part of the 18th century. Their ancestors had lived almost 200 years in America when their properties were suddenly seized and they were tarred, feathered, and expelled from the American colonies for not supporting their fellow Americans in their fight against the German king from the House of Hanover.

So when Canadians come back to America to live and retire, it is something of a homecoming, because America is where their ancestors' homes used to be. It feels like home because it used to be.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I don't care, more Canadian kids will rise up and we'll continue to dominate in the coming years.

Also, some will play for Canada when born in the USA and lived in Canada long enough.

 

[lawrence]

happens both ways.

Canada have American born players play for them for before.

Sean Coutier
Tyler Myers
Jacob Chycrun

to name a few.