I wasn't around when it happened, so I was just wondering the scale of the upset that was the U.S. beating the Soviets. Is it overblown? Or was it truly that remarkable?
How big of a miracle was the "Miracle on Ice?"
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LeBlondeDemon10
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It happened at the peak of the Cold War - when it was a legitimate possibility that Russia would launch missiles over the arctic into North America.
worstfaceoffmanever
These Snacks Are Odd
Imagine if the US U20 team beat the 2010 Canadian Olympic team. That's the kind of magnitude we're talking about here.
A team of American college players beat what was, most people would argue, the best hockey team in the world for the better part of the previous two decades. They had won four straight Olympic gold medals and the last two World Championships. They had star players in their primes, guys like Tretiak and Kharlamov, probably the best Russian players ever at their respective positions. Petrov was coming off one of the best years of his career in 78-79. There were rising young stars like Fetisov, Kasatonov and Makarov. They had an elite coach, and they controlled the puck like no team on the planet. By all accounts, they should have rolled through the tournament, and should have destroyed the Americans the way they did at MSG prior to the tournament. They even led the game 3-2 after two periods.
It was so utterly improbable that a team of players who hadn't even come close to finishing their development would beat a team that was as polished and cohesive as the Soviets that it can only be duly described as a miracle. The politics make it a great patriotic story for the US, but even without the politics of the Cold War, it would still be a remarkable story and a remarkable upset.
A team of American college players beat what was, most people would argue, the best hockey team in the world for the better part of the previous two decades. They had won four straight Olympic gold medals and the last two World Championships. They had star players in their primes, guys like Tretiak and Kharlamov, probably the best Russian players ever at their respective positions. Petrov was coming off one of the best years of his career in 78-79. There were rising young stars like Fetisov, Kasatonov and Makarov. They had an elite coach, and they controlled the puck like no team on the planet. By all accounts, they should have rolled through the tournament, and should have destroyed the Americans the way they did at MSG prior to the tournament. They even led the game 3-2 after two periods.
It was so utterly improbable that a team of players who hadn't even come close to finishing their development would beat a team that was as polished and cohesive as the Soviets that it can only be duly described as a miracle. The politics make it a great patriotic story for the US, but even without the politics of the Cold War, it would still be a remarkable story and a remarkable upset.
Wow, well said. It really makes you think if an upset of that magnitude could happen again.
quoipourquoi
Goaltender
In a single-game elimination tournament, sure. What's even more amazing is that Team USA had good enough of a record against the other Final Round teams to still win Gold.
For me personally, this is probably the most influencial tournament/team I've experienced. USA and the guys on the gold winning team managed to do well in made up tournaments when I was a kid.
Not really age wise, as the ages of the USA players actually were 1x19, 2x20, 6x21, 9x22, 2x25, so only three players were 20 or younger. But it is a good analogy anyway, since they didn't play in the NHL (yet).
Having played and trained together a lot (just like the Soviets) helped them too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_on_ice
Interesting to see how strong a few areas (like Minnesota) were.
One can argue that Belarus defeating Sweden in the Olympics were a bigger upset. (Belarus didn't win the gold medal though.)
Not really age wise, as the ages of the USA players actually were 1x19, 2x20, 6x21, 9x22, 2x25, so only three players were 20 or younger. But it is a good analogy anyway, since they didn't play in the NHL (yet).
Having played and trained together a lot (just like the Soviets) helped them too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_on_ice
Interesting to see how strong a few areas (like Minnesota) were.
One can argue that Belarus defeating Sweden in the Olympics were a bigger upset. (Belarus didn't win the gold medal though.)
double5son10
Registered User
It was HUGE. Having just watched that Soviet team only a year before dismantle the NHL All-Stars in the deciding game of the Challenge Cup and knowing that the U.S. team had had 10 dropped on them only a month before in an exhibition against the Soviets, that game was absolutely astonishing.
In retrospect, it seems to have diminished some. Brooks certainly got his props for coaching that team up, and of course many of the U.S. players went on to have great careers--Morrow went on to join the Islanders dynasty and was a key contributor, Broten appeared in three Cup finals in a fine seventeen yr. career, Mike Ramsey was a respected defensive defenseman and one of the best shot-blockers ever, Dave Christian played over a 1000 games, and Christoff, Pavelich and Mark Johnson all played well in the NHL in spite of injury plagued careers. All that said, it was still the Soviet National team. Three of the four Russians in the Pro Hockey Hall of Fame were on that team, and Mikhailov and Makarov should be in the Hall as well. That team was stacked.
Watching that win as a young American hockey player was awe inspiring. I may have been a kid, but I've truly never been more proud to be a Yank.
In retrospect, it seems to have diminished some. Brooks certainly got his props for coaching that team up, and of course many of the U.S. players went on to have great careers--Morrow went on to join the Islanders dynasty and was a key contributor, Broten appeared in three Cup finals in a fine seventeen yr. career, Mike Ramsey was a respected defensive defenseman and one of the best shot-blockers ever, Dave Christian played over a 1000 games, and Christoff, Pavelich and Mark Johnson all played well in the NHL in spite of injury plagued careers. All that said, it was still the Soviet National team. Three of the four Russians in the Pro Hockey Hall of Fame were on that team, and Mikhailov and Makarov should be in the Hall as well. That team was stacked.
Watching that win as a young American hockey player was awe inspiring. I may have been a kid, but I've truly never been more proud to be a Yank.
Uncle Rotter
Registered User
What tends to be forgotten these days is that the Soviets struggled in their 2 previous games against Finland & Canada. Canada lead them by 2 goals & could have easily led by 3 or 4. The entire game's on Youtube. There's a newspaper article from the time where the journalist is watching the game with a member of the US team, describing how he (the player) was cheering for the Soviets to come back because they wanted to be the ones to pull off the upset they felt the USSR were due.
It was an upset, but at times it is indeed overblown.
As was already said, quite a few future NHL stars were on that US team. Some even stepped onto NHL ice right after the Olympics and never looked out of place. The team was in fact so strong that they won the gold medal! Brooks was able to form a unit similar in the way the Soviet team was built. The US team trained and played together for nearly a year. And advantage none of the other teams in the tournament had. And of course everything fell into place at the right time. The Soviets had internal problems for the whole tournament, but it culminated with Tretiak being benched that night. Big mistake, which Tikhonov admitted. It disrupted the Soviet team and the US got themselves a once in a lifetime chance.
As was already said, quite a few future NHL stars were on that US team. Some even stepped onto NHL ice right after the Olympics and never looked out of place. The team was in fact so strong that they won the gold medal! Brooks was able to form a unit similar in the way the Soviet team was built. The US team trained and played together for nearly a year. And advantage none of the other teams in the tournament had. And of course everything fell into place at the right time. The Soviets had internal problems for the whole tournament, but it culminated with Tretiak being benched that night. Big mistake, which Tikhonov admitted. It disrupted the Soviet team and the US got themselves a once in a lifetime chance.
Yes and no.
By 1980, players like Petrov, Kharlamov, Mikhailov, Vasiliev, etc. were far past their prime.
Forget pulling Tretiak, I think Tikhonov's biggest mistake was having these older guys on the roster. The team looked stale and lacked what USA had in abundance...youthful enthusiasm. Its no coincidence that only a year later (1981 Canada Cup) most of the 'older generation' players were replaced.
However, that shouldn't diminish what USA did though because Soviet hockey was at its apex (due to unparalleled player depth).
LeBlondeDemon10
Registered User
I think you're exaggerating. 2-3 players stepped onto NHL ice after the Olympics and were solid, average NHL players. More than a few had a shot but did not last. Still, that is an accomplishment in itself. And a few were given opportunities based on this incredible upset, but it became evident that they were not NHL caliber. They likely would never have been given an opportunity otherwise. None were stars. This game was simply a matter of the Soviets being ripe for the picking and they ran into a well coached team with excellent chemistry.
David Suzuki
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Or vice verca
But to answer not that huge. A young, fast team beat an old, slow team. It was still huge but it was hardly one of the great upsets of all time, I guess.
wickedwitch
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- Mar 21, 2010
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Even Canada couldn't do it.
Canadians always comment that the reason they never won an Olympic gold medal during this period was because only amateurs could play. Yet some how the US over came the exact same barrier. And at the time, the difference in talent between the Canadians and Americans was much bigger than it is today.
Canadians always comment that the reason they never won an Olympic gold medal during this period was because only amateurs could play. Yet some how the US over came the exact same barrier. And at the time, the difference in talent between the Canadians and Americans was much bigger than it is today.
darkhorse686
Registered User
I think the comments here have summarized it rightly. It was an amazing, gritty performance by the US but the Soviets had a few chinks in their armor that hurt them. Kharlamov wasn't the same player was thanks to a car accident he'd been in about 3 and half years prior and Tretiak (I think) was in so-so form at the time of the Olympics while others like Mikhailov, Petrov, etc. were on the downslope of their careers. It didn't help that the Soviets had whipped the US 10-3 in an exhibition game which, according to coach Tikhonov, caused the Russian to underestimate the US.
For all that, the Soviets outshot the US 39-16 in game so they still dominated the play. If Jim Craig hadn't played the game of his life, things would have been a lot different.
For all that, the Soviets outshot the US 39-16 in game so they still dominated the play. If Jim Craig hadn't played the game of his life, things would have been a lot different.
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
The Yanks were ranked 8th in the tourny and were walking in with a mostly Uni kids. The Russians were walking in with what could be argued to be one of the greatest hockey teams of all time. Vladislav Tretiak was at the top of his game.
Goalies
# 1 Vladimir Myshkin
#20 Vladislav Tretiak
Defencemen
# 2 Viacheslav Fetisov
# 5 Vasili Pervukhin
# 6 Valeri Vasiliev
# 7 Aleksei Kasatonov
#12 Sergei Starikov
#14 Zinetula Bilyaletdinov
Forwards
# 9 Vladimir Krutov
#10 Alexandr Maltsev
#11 Yuri Lebedev
#13 Boris Mikhailov, C
#16 Vladimir Petrov
#17 Valeri Kharlamov
#19 Helmut Balderis
#22 Viktor Zhlutkov
#23 Alekandr Golikov
#24 Sergei Makarov
#25 Vladimir Golikov
#26 Alexandr Skvortsov
there are some great names on that list
they lost to a bunch of players no one every heard of
Goalies
# 1 Vladimir Myshkin
#20 Vladislav Tretiak
Defencemen
# 2 Viacheslav Fetisov
# 5 Vasili Pervukhin
# 6 Valeri Vasiliev
# 7 Aleksei Kasatonov
#12 Sergei Starikov
#14 Zinetula Bilyaletdinov
Forwards
# 9 Vladimir Krutov
#10 Alexandr Maltsev
#11 Yuri Lebedev
#13 Boris Mikhailov, C
#16 Vladimir Petrov
#17 Valeri Kharlamov
#19 Helmut Balderis
#22 Viktor Zhlutkov
#23 Alekandr Golikov
#24 Sergei Makarov
#25 Vladimir Golikov
#26 Alexandr Skvortsov
there are some great names on that list
they lost to a bunch of players no one every heard of
Uncle Rotter
Registered User
Big Phil
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- Nov 2, 2003
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Pretty much. When Belarus beat Sweden in 2002 it was a shock across the hockey world, but 22 years earlier it was a miracle. Just in case someone was looking for a modern comparison of how big it was the Sweden/Belarus game is it................and then double it.
I heard of most of them. Fourteen of them played college hockey in the WCHA where I refereed. Many people in Minnesota, North Dakota and Wisconsin knew who they were. In fact, anyone who followed college hockey in the US knew who they were.
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
And I am old enough to say with a straight face the Collage hockey in the 80's was not followed by even the most die hard hockey fans outside of the states where the games were played--Miracle changed that.
Some quick facts--only a few NHL teams had collage scouts before 1980--most looked down on the game played at that Level. Detroit. NYI, Minny, NYR, Boston, Buffalo, and Chicago were the only teams that had full time scouts--several other teams had stringers who were paid per game or in some cases a month at a time and even then, it wasn' until the changing of the guard at the NHL level, where GMs started getting hired not only based upon their hockey sense--but whether or not they had a collage degree.
I remember attending a conference in Edmonton (when I was thinking about trying to go from being a sucky 4th liner in the AJHL to being a scout) and they talked about how much scouting had changed over the past 20 years (this was in about 1989) and one of the big changes was how team looked at university and collage and the guy who was running the conference pointed at the 1980 win and gave that stats of how little time, many teams spent on uni or collage hockey players. And it was not until Adam Oates and another guy came out in the mid 80's were all NHL teams realized what was going on and then jumped on the wagon
BubbaBoot
Registered User
Not really. Some very good players yes, six maybe.....the rest were serviceable for short spells and a fair amount never played in the NHL.
Jim Craig - played a total of 30 NHL games.
Ken Morrow - top 25 for American defensemen.
Mike Ramsey - a lower end top 15 all-time American defensemen.
Mark Johnson - a top 25 forward.
Rob McClanahan - shuttled between 3 teams and the minors in 4 years.
Dave Silk - was a 3rd liner who shuttled down to the minors a few times, then finished with 5 yrs in Germany.
Bill Baker - - shuttled between 4 teams and the minors in 4 years.
Neal Broten - top 20 for American forward
Dave Christian - top 20 for American forward
Steve Christoff - two 26 goal season in 5 years on 3 teams.
Mike Eruzione - retired after the Olympics.
John Harrington - minors, National team and Europe over the next 4 years.
Steve Janaszak - 3 NHL games on two teams & 7 minor league teams in 3 years.
Jack O'Callahan - was a 2nd / 3rd pairing defensemen for 7 years, when he wasn't hurt.
Mark Pavelich - had a good 5 year run with the Rangers, twice scoring over 30 goals.
Buzz Schneider - 4 WHA games, National team and 4 minor league teams in 4 years BEFORE.
Eric Strobel - 13 AHL games BEFORE.
Bob Suter - 1 season in the Central Hockey League.
Phil Verchota - 1 season in Finland and 2 tours with the National team.
Mark Wells - 28 minor league games BEFORE. 106 minor lague games in 2 yrs after.
tony d
Registered User
The team where massive underdogs made up of a bunch of over achievers. Their story is probably one of the biggest if not the biggest upset in hockey history.
Poland beating Soviets at 1976 WC was the biggest single game upset, imo. Soviets defeated them 16-1 a couple months earlier at the olympics.
If you ever get a chance to see the documentary HBO did about it some years ago now, I'd do so. It really puts into perspective not just what was going on on the ice, but also off. It wasn't just a david & goliath like story, but also what the world and the US was going through at the time.
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