How aggressive should the Leafs be at the deadline? Whimper or All In?

[notbias]

Either do something or don't... last year was a waste of assets even if they were all mid-picks.

I won't be upset if the GM spends some assets to make the team better, but be smart about it, 6 picks and the best thing we got was Dewar...

 

[Ports]

Based on?

OEL is more physical and a better defender than Rielly.

Thoughts??

View attachment 972707

Another slow centre. No thanks. Brayden Schenn is who they should target.

 

[PromisedLand]

If now isn't the time wheh the east is weaker then It's been in at least a decade, you are top 5 in the NHL and leading the Atlantic.

If now isn't the time wheh is it?

Wheh is it time to have the gutts to do something

well... we've pretty much done that for a while. we do not really have a #1D man. Our depth isn't as good. we have pending UFAs with high AAV who have time and time again not shown up in the post season when it really matters. On top of that we have goalies who have performed decently but are still unproven in the playoffs.

Eventually one has to take calculated risks instead of going all in all the time. My preference is to wait out this year and see how the same core plays with a new coach. If its still the same old same old then there are most certainly significant changes needed.

My personal preference is not to add too much at the TDL.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

well... we've pretty much done that for a while. we do not really have a #1D man. Our depth isn't as good. we have pending UFAs with high AAV who have time and time again not shown up in the post season when it really matters. On top of that we have goalies who have performed decently but are still unproven in the playoffs.

Eventually one has to take calculated risks instead of going all in all the time. My preference is to wait out this year and see how the same core plays with a new coach. If its still the same old same old then there are most certainly significant changes needed.

My personal preference is not to add too much at the TDL.

So you would take the gutless approach

 

[PromisedLand]

So you would take the gutless approach

there is a big difference between so called being "gutless" and "calculated risk"

not doing anything major given past results isn't gutless; doing something major given past results is downright dumb

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

there is a big difference between so called being "gutless" and "calculated risk"

not doing anything major given past results isn't gutless; doing something major given past results is downright dumb

When you are top 5 in the league It's go time

 

[stats1]

Well!!!! If you put Willy and Tanev on LTIR you have about 15 million in cap space before the TDL it’s all in time!!!! In all honesty Leafs need another top 4 D. You’re not doing anything with this group. And they could use a Brayden Schenn

 

[hobarth]

well... we've pretty much done that for a while. we do not really have a #1D man. Our depth isn't as good. we have pending UFAs with high AAV who have time and time again not shown up in the post season when it really matters. On top of that we have goalies who have performed decently but are still unproven in the playoffs.

Eventually one has to take calculated risks instead of going all in all the time. My preference is to wait out this year and see how the same core plays with a new coach. If its still the same old same old then there are most certainly significant changes needed.

My personal preference is not to add too much at the TDL.

Sort of feel the same but nonproven goalies isn't a deal killer, Murray, Binnington and Dryden are my references.

Bad d is also not a deal killer, I think of Pittsburgh and their first Cup in 2016, they didn't have a single name defender, their defense looked dreadful on paper.

The only time TO was lucky enough to go all in for the playoffs and that player was healthy was when TO acquired O'Rielly, the only time TO made it outside of the 1st round.

TO needs better forwards, we saw TO basically getting dominated by Chicago and a wounded Boston for 2 periods, of late, that tells me that TO needs a humongous upgrade at forward or a true #1 d-man. TO won both games but we know that TO's current forward group doesn't have enough to win in the playoffs. Every year during the playoffs TO's defensive record is good enough to win but getting timely goals has proven impossible.

Being dominated by Chicago and Boston is a strong indication of TO's probable future in these playoffs, heart/character is something that should be on display in at least 2/3rds of games against such weak opposition and that TO can't muster that is extremely telling.

TO has bunch of depth forwards, trading for a Laughton would simply be another depth player and giving away anything other than a low draft choice would be silly/stupid.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Sort of feel the same but nonproven goalies isn't a deal killer, Murray, Binnington and Dryden are my references.

Bad d is also not a deal killer, I think of Pittsburgh and their first Cup in 2016, they didn't have a single name defender, their defense looked dreadful on paper.

The only time TO was lucky enough to go all in for the playoffs and that player was healthy was when TO acquired O'Rielly, the only time TO made it outside of the 1st round.

TO needs better forwards, we saw TO basically getting dominated by Chicago and a wounded Boston for 2 periods, of late, that tells me that TO needs a humongous upgrade at forward or a true #1 d-man. TO won both games but we know that TO's current forward group doesn't have enough to win in the playoffs. Every year during the playoffs TO's defensive record is good enough to win but getting timely goals has proven impossible.

Being dominated by Chicago and Boston is a strong indication of TO's probable future in these playoffs, heart/character is something that should be on display in at least 2/3rds of games against such weak opposition and that TO can't muster that is extremely telling.

TO has bunch of depth forwards, trading for a Laughton would simply be another depth player and giving away anything other than a low draft choice would be silly/stupid.

They didn't get dominated by Chicago they had 1 bad period and then won 5-2

 

[therealkoho]

Thinking hard about this, what do the Leafs need worse a Dman or a forward?

If its a Dman then it will most likely going to be expensive or it's not worth doing is it?

So figuring on 2 1sts one of Danford or Cowan or gulp both, for a Parayko or someone in that class. It would be a great get but way too big of a gamble if they don't bring home the silverware.

So I suggest this

1st Cowan Domi Rifai one of Dewar or Holmberg

Laughton + Ristolainen + Ginning who's a Swedish Dman 6'2" 196 25yrs old who was drafted 50th overall 2018. He just came over and is now in Lehigh Valley. He projects to be a bottom pairing guy who can move the puck but without any real offensive acumen he'll need at least a full year in the A.

 

[sunstersun]

Just trade for Schenn as a Rielly partner.

He should be cheapish.

 

[ULF_55]

well... we've pretty much done that for a while. we do not really have a #1D man. Our depth isn't as good. we have pending UFAs with high AAV who have time and time again not shown up in the post season when it really matters. On top of that we have goalies who have performed decently but are still unproven in the playoffs.

Eventually one has to take calculated risks instead of going all in all the time. My preference is to wait out this year and see how the same core plays with a new coach. If its still the same old same old then there are most certainly significant changes needed.

My personal preference is not to add too much at the TDL.

My preference is all in or all out.

Seems hardly worthwhile adding depth players when they already have depth players in the minors.

Pay a 2nd. round pick and prospect for a 3rd. liner seems more like painting the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Hit that berg and a 3rd. liner isn't going to patch the hole.

 

[Macallan18]

My preference is all in or all out.

Seems hardly worthwhile adding depth players when they already have depth players in the minors.

Pay a 2nd. round pick and prospect for a 3rd. liner seems more like painting the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Hit that berg and a 3rd. liner isn't going to patch the hole.

exactly right. I would go all in, we have goaltending for the first time in forever, and some stars, and some secondary scoring apparently.
I want a true first pairing d man to put with Rielly.
And for the the naysayers saying they aren't available, look at how many good d men HAVE been traded that we perennially miss out on.
Noah Dobson, trade the farm.
.

 

[stats1]

Just trade for Schenn as a Rielly partner.

He should be cheapish.

Ohh yes let’s cheap out on Schenn and then we can all bitch and complain when we get bounced in the first round. Yes this is up to the core players to get us deep but outside of getting O’Reilly we have never really gone for it. I understand people don’t want to get older guys but if Brayden Schenn is available or if Parayko is available we should be making these moves. We don’t need depth, we need upgrades. What happens if Tanev is out for the playoffs?? You think Luke is enough?

Rielly-Schenn
Benoit-McCabe
OEL-Timmins.

Yeah….. that’s ugly. We don’t need depth we need upgrades. Holding onto prospects like Cowan and draft picks at this stage doesn’t make sense imo. We have a great goalie tandem, we got a legit top pair if Tanev is healthy. We need more. I want a damn cup! Go get Parayko put him with Rielly and all of a sudden you got a Cup contending top 4 D core . And then OEL and Benoit on the bottom pair

 

[Evilhomer]

exactly right. I would go all in, we have goaltending for the first time in forever, and some stars, and some secondary scoring apparently.
I want a true first pairing d man to put with Rielly.
And for the the naysayers saying they aren't available, look at how many good d men HAVE been traded that we perennially miss out on.
Noah Dobson, trade the farm.
.

I like Dobson, but in a lot of respects he is similar to Rielly. He is definitely not a number one defenseman.

 

[Mentat]

As long as our superstars keep going MIA in the Playoffs, it really doesn´t matter what we do in this trade deadline.
We´re just putting lipstick on an old pig.

 

[Hellcat]

Whoever they pick up needs to be cheap and have that "he's a gamer" reputation. Mitch an elite skilled player but not a gamer. Matthews an elite skilled player but not a gamer. Willie an elite skilled player but not a gamer. Rielly not a gamer, Kampft, Robertson, McMann, Tavaraes, Timmins, Holmberg, OEL all not gamers. There needs to be some red meat intensity coming back. I was watching some highlights last year, FLA was simply a bully on the school yard, if they weren't putting offensive pressure on you, they were bullying you out of the school yard, they never gave you a shift to rest, there was always some sort of stress/chaos they were sending your way.. We have the talent, I would argue we have more talent than the Cup winners last year, what we dont have is the intensity and bully factor. Shock and awe works for a reason.

If you play the way you need to play, there will be lots of injured players, the problem is we dont have a Cup winning roster, let alone the depth to get us through the inevitable injuries. For me it makes no sense to spend assets on a team that is this imperfect and has some risk to lose 2 of their top players next season. Some will say that this is the year, Boston, Fla, Tampa all look human, possibly the East has never looked so weak. I think there is a good argument for that case. For me the long term future is at stake if we gamble away too much, Dubas did a good job of emptying the cupboards before he left. I think it's time to make smart inexpensive moves and build for the future. To trade away assets when there is a chance Tavares and Mitch are gone after this season, seems irresponsible to me. For me, Cowan and Mitien are off limits due to the fact we might be losing JT and MM.

 

[Jojalu]

Whoever they pick up needs to be cheap and have that "he's a gamer" reputation. Mitch an elite skilled player but not a gamer. Matthews an elite skilled player but not a gamer. Willie an elite skilled player but not a gamer. Rielly not a gamer, Kampft, Robertson, McMann, Tavaraes, Timmins, Holmberg, OEL all not gamers. There needs to be some red meat intensity coming back. I was watching some highlights last year, FLA was simply a bully on the school yard, if they weren't putting offensive pressure on you, they were bullying you out of the school yard, they never gave you a shift to rest, there was always some sort of stress/chaos they were sending your way.. We have the talent, I would argue we have more talent than the Cup winners last year, what we dont have is the intensity and bully factor. Shock and awe works for a reason.

If you play the way you need to play, there will be lots of injured players, the problem is we dont have a Cup winning roster, let alone the depth to get us through the inevitable injuries. For me it makes no sense to spend assets on a team that is this imperfect and has some risk to lose 2 of their top players next season. Some will say that this is the year, Boston, Fla, Tampa all look human, possibly the East has never looked so weak. I think there is a good argument for that case. For me the long term future is at stake if we gamble away too much, Dubas did a good job of emptying the cupboards before he left. I think it's time to make smart inexpensive moves and build for the future. To trade away assets when there is a chance Tavares and Mitch are gone after this season, seems irresponsible to me. For me, Cowan and Mitien are off limits due to the fact we might be losing JT and MM.

Not sure if there is any truth to any of this Rantanen noise but I hear it on the radio and have seen a couple articles.

Do the Leafs believe Marner is about to walk?

 

[kevsh]

There needs to be some red meat intensity coming back.

Agreed, but it's pointless unless there is some red meat intensity in our star players.

And that's been the problem from day one, which is so disheartening when they literally have had front row seats to watch two highly-skilled divisional rivals flop in the playoffs until their stars "got it" and started to play nasty. Both teams turned around and went on to Cup wins that next season.

You would have thought our guys saw that and thought "okay, now we know what we have to do". But nope, instead I think their arrogance and/or simply their refusal to do what it takes to win has led them to inherit the much deserved "prima donna" tags.

And they've never shown any sign that they're ever going to (or even want to) change that. Unless, they do, they're never winning anything.

 

[ToneDog]

Kyper proposing they add Rantanen for Knies +. IMO if I am trading Knies it is for Dobson. Big RHD who can QB the PP.

 

[Hellcat]

Agreed, but it's pointless unless there is some red meat intensity in our star players.

And that's been the problem from day one, which is so disheartening when they literally have had front row seats to watch two highly-skilled divisional rivals flop in the playoffs until their stars "got it" and started to play nasty. Both teams turned around and went on to Cup wins that next season.

You would have thought our guys saw that and thought "okay, now we know what we have to do". But nope, instead I think their arrogance and/or simply their refusal to do what it takes to win has led them to inherit the much deserved "prima donna" tags.

And they've never shown any sign that they're ever going to (or even want to) change that. Unless, they do, they're never winning anything.

Might not be arrogance, might just be who they are. Some guy's just dont have the chromosomes to be a nasty piece of machinery. I personally love being that guy that gets people off their game, get in their face, intimidate them and I know the way I use to play, too old to play now, I was going to get it back and I was fine with that. the number of times someone hacked me in the ankle , back of the knee, side of the knee are too many to count but when people were mad at me they were not focused on their game, that's a win in my books. You can't turn a sloth into a lion. Mitch, Matty and Willie are what they are, they are not going to start playing like Bennett.

Not sure if there is any truth to any of this Rantanen noise but I hear it on the radio and have seen a couple articles.

Do the Leafs believe Marner is about to walk?

When a player goes to UFA, there is always a risk. I'm sure there is a GM out there that thinks a 15mil Mitch make sense, what to they say, money talks right?

I think the Rantanen talk is just that talking heads creating a story for clicks.

 

[Hellcat]

Kyper proposing they add Rantanen for Knies +. IMO if I am trading Knies it is for Dobson. Big RHD who can QB the PP.

Which is why Kyper will never be a GM. This short term solution thing is why were are 8 years in with out a 2nd round win and an empty prospect cupboard. It's hard to be patient when everyone is telling you you are doing the wrong thing but the right thing is to be patient. We lost Hyman and then what were are we looking for, a power forward that will crash the net (Knies), now that we have Knies we are looking to trade him for a one year rental? then next year we will be looking for Knies. Fixing one problem by creating another is not a way to run a team.

 

[Macallan18]

I like Dobson, but in a lot of respects he is similar to Rielly. He is definitely not a number one defenseman.

Ok I won’t quibble over who, but get someone.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Which is why Kyper will never be a GM. This short term solution thing is why were are 8 years in with out a 2nd round win and an empty prospect cupboard. It's hard to be patient when everyone is telling you you are doing the wrong thing but the right thing is to be patient. We lost Hyman and then what were are we looking for, a power forward that will crash the net (Knies), now that we have Knies we are looking to trade him for a one year rental? then next year we will be looking for Knies. Fixing one problem by creating another is not a way to run a team.

Does it make you a GM?

Kidding.

Come on My Dude. He is saying "a scenario like...". These conversations are not done with any weight. Jeff Marek and Friedman used to throw musings like this on an hourly basis. Marek even one time suggesting last year a 10 player trade in the works between TOR and CGY ("like the Gilmour trade").

Never? The first step in being a GM is not spitballing fun trades on a podcast.

 

[Jojalu]

Might not be arrogance, might just be who they are. Some guy's just dont have the chromosomes to be a nasty piece of machinery. I personally love being that guy that gets people off their game, get in their face, intimidate them and I know the way I use to play, too old to play now, I was going to get it back and I was fine with that. the number of times someone hacked me in the ankle , back of the knee, side of the knee are too many to count but when people were mad at me they were not focused on their game, that's a win in my books. You can't turn a sloth into a lion. Mitch, Matty and Willie are what they are, they are not going to start playing like Bennett.



When a player goes to UFA, there is always a risk. I'm sure there is a GM out there that thinks a 15mil Mitch make sense, what to they say, money talks right?

I think the Rantanen talk is just that talking heads creating a story for clicks.

I thought so too.

But if it seems likely Rantanen won't resign with Carolina do they keep him for a run or try to get something back for him?

Tough spot for them.