Seravalli: Horvat Contract Discussion

[strattonius]

I mean they have miller and petey down the middle…

Idk if it makes a ton of sense keeping him going forward. He’s too good to be a #3C imo.

Never really understood this logic anymore. The NHL isn't a top6/bottom 6 league anymore. You must have at least 3 lines that can score. Strength down the middle is one of the most important positions to fill out on the roster. If Alvin and Co. are sitting at a round table brainstorming 'we would have 3 very good Centers we can't do that' I'd lose all the faith I got back after Benning was fired.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Hopefully Horvat tells them to shove it.

 

[Regal]

I mean they have miller and petey down the middle…

Idk if it makes a ton of sense keeping him going forward. He’s too good to be a #3C imo.

Realistically, Miller probably should be a wing if they re-sign Horvat long term, but they need to find a competent 3C in that instance, and it’s been a problem for awhile.

 

[centipede2233]

paying horvat 7 mil plus who has a career high 61 pts and only one season above a +/- above 0 with a +3 and he’s your 3rd best center makes no sense. I think they need to trade EP for an equally good RD, sign Bo for an AAV of 6.5. That’s what I’d do

 

[AHLdepth]

But that's how negotiations work? The team says "would you do 8x5.75" or whatever. Horvat comes back and says " closer to 8x8" or whatever. They hammer away and meet somewhere in the middle.

 

[Richard88]

If he's available then Newhook + 1st would be a decent base for Horvat extended.

Vancouver would probably prefer to target a young RHD though unless Horvat doesn't want to extend with teams who can offer a RHD with value comparable to Newhook.

 

[credulous]

horvat is one of the most overrated players in the league. he's a good forward but he's nowhere close to what his reputation suggests. he's benefited from playing on a very good power play throughout his career and being gifted prime offensive opportunities. his actual playmaking is below par, his skating is barely acceptable and his defense is bad. allegedly he's a leader but the canucks have been awful his entire tenure as captain. he's a good canadian farm boy with a strong jaw though so some team will pay him 7.5 x 8

 

[mriswith]

The new management group has not let anything leak, the ship is airtight. At this point no rumours are true or any more credible than fan theories until proven otherwise.

horvat is one of the most overrated players in the league. he's a good forward but he's nowhere close to what his reputation suggests. he's benefited from playing on a very good power play throughout his career and being gifted prime offensive opportunities. his actual playmaking is below par, his skating is barely acceptable and his defense is bad. allegedly he's a leader but the canucks have been awful his entire tenure as captain. he's a good canadian farm boy with a strong jaw though so some team will pay him 7.5 x 8

There are some legit criticisms for Horvat and with Miller signed I'd be interested in trading him to fix the d; however, in fairness the guy probably wins the "most talented centre with least talented wings" of the last decade award. The absolute garbage he's had to play with for most of his career is astonishing.

Like his 2018/2019 campaign scoring 61 points while being forced to drag the corpse of Loui Eriksson, Virtanen, Leipsic and Roussel et al around the ice was phenomenal.

He's had no one to pass to for almost his entire career. He's been so traumatized by awful wingers that he thinks Pearson is untouchable.

 

[Peter Griffin]

horvat is one of the most overrated players in the league. he's a good forward but he's nowhere close to what his reputation suggests. he's benefited from playing on a very good power play throughout his career and being gifted prime offensive opportunities. his actual playmaking is below par, his skating is barely acceptable and his defense is bad. allegedly he's a leader but the canucks have been awful his entire tenure as captain. he's a good canadian farm boy with a strong jaw though so some team will pay him 7.5 x 8

Pretty much this. Part of me hopes he prices himself out of Vancouver as at anything above $6.5M longterm, he’s not worth it.

 

[golffuul]

The new management group has not let anything leak, the ship is airtight. At this point no rumours are true or any more credible than fan theories until proven otherwise.


There are some legit criticisms for Horvat and with Miller signed I'd be interested in trading him to fix the d; however, in fairness the guy probably wins the "most talented centre with least talented wings" of the last decade award. The absolute garbage he's had to play with for most of his career is astonishing.

Like his 2018/2019 campaign scoring 61 points while being forced to drag the corpse of Loui Eriksson, Virtanen, Leipsic and Roussel et al around the ice was phenomenal.

He's had no one to pass to for almost his entire career. He's been so traumatized by awful wingers that he thinks Pearson is untouchable.

This...and he still scored 31 goals in 70 games for a Vancouver team that STRUGGLED for a lot of the season.

 

[credulous]

There are some legit criticisms for Horvat and with Miller signed I'd be interested in trading him to fix the d; however, in fairness the guy probably wins the "most talented centre with least talented wings" of the last decade award. The absolute garbage he's had to play with for most of his career is astonishing.

i don't think he's bad and i think he has been weighted down by the awful teams benning put around him but he's a lot closer to antoine vermette than ryan o'reilly even though his reputation suggests otherwise

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

paying horvat 7 mil plus who has a career high 61 pts and only one season above a +/- above 0 with a +3 and he’s your 3rd best center makes no sense. I think they need to trade EP for an equally good RD, sign Bo for an AAV of 6.5. That’s what I’d do

What ????

 

[centipede2233]

What ????

Trade from strength. You can’t trade Bo, he has no trade value or very little. Sign and keep him and trade EP for an equal RD to address weakness. Gotta give to get my friend.

 

[Kryten]

The new management group has not let anything leak, the ship is airtight. At this point no rumours are true or any more credible than fan theories until proven otherwise.


There are some legit criticisms for Horvat and with Miller signed I'd be interested in trading him to fix the d; however, in fairness the guy probably wins the "most talented centre with least talented wings" of the last decade award. The absolute garbage he's had to play with for most of his career is astonishing.

Like his 2018/2019 campaign scoring 61 points while being forced to drag the corpse of Loui Eriksson, Virtanen, Leipsic and Roussel et al around the ice was phenomenal.

He's had no one to pass to for almost his entire career. He's been so traumatized by awful wingers that he thinks Pearson is untouchable.

Hes weird, Horvat is good at faceoffs and has goal scoring ability, but isnt a playmaker which is needed as a center unless being great defensively which he is not

 

[canadianmagpie]

First it was the media speculating that Boeser was on the block because they were thinking about not extending him. He signs. Then it's speculation about Miller being traded. He signs. I think they just look at capfriendly and see what Canuck is due for an extension before stating they're next on the block. Guess it's about Travis Dermott next!

 

[kcunac]

Boeser isn't really a comparable. He had a 7.5 QO as an RFA. Half the board (mostly non-Canuck fans) thought that was the min Boeser would get and the other half thought the QO didn't matter at all (mostly Canucks fans). Of course the reality is somewhere in between where it mattered, but wasn't everything. As mentioned, Boeser has been better than Horvat in the past, though not last season.

The much better comp is Miller, whose 99 pts got him $8 million (or $80,808 per point) over 7 years. The same $80,808 per point applied to Horvat's 52 pts would give him $4.2 million. Now of course there are many factors that could bump that number up: 8 year contract; 2 years younger; more goals than assists; etc. , but the reality is that Miller is just a much better player.

For these reasons, I just can't see it going above $7 million and probably more like $6.5 over 8 years. Maybe Bo thinks he is worth more and gets it in UFA. Just can't see the Nucks giving it to him.

 

[Reality Czech]

Bo knows lowball offers

 

[DeltaSwede]

Is this the low point for Vancouver media?

I mean most of everything that's come out the past 2 years is bs

 

[Face Of Bear]

enough people have recently signed for 7-8 that Horvat is clearly better then

 

[John Mandalorian]

horvat is one of the most overrated players in the league. he's a good forward but he's nowhere close to what his reputation suggests. he's benefited from playing on a very good power play throughout his career and being gifted prime offensive opportunities. his actual playmaking is below par, his skating is barely acceptable and his defense is bad. allegedly he's a leader but the canucks have been awful his entire tenure as captain. he's a good canadian farm boy with a strong jaw though so some team will pay him 7.5 x 8

He probably smells pretty bad too then?

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

So who was the drama between?
Did it ever come out if it was more Miller or Horvat?

I think both sides seem to be angling here and it will get done, something in the mid $6 mil range x 7-8 years?

 

[hamzarocks]

Miller makes 8M hes significantly ahead of Horvat

He should come in at 6.5-7M for 8 years

 

[Pens x]

Usually, JR overpays contracts by 25%. Strange, if true.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Is horvat that much better than trocheck?

Yes

 

[Luck 6]

Well, I mean, I'm kind of thinking they will end at a number that starts with a 6, so using 5 as a starting point isn't crazy...

He'll be 28 to start next season, and I would think an 8 year deal is not out of the question.

Age 28: 8mil
Age 29: 8mil
Age 30: 8mil
Age 31: 6mil
Age 32: 5mil
Age 33: 4.5mil
Age 34: 4mil
Age 35: 4mil

8 years at 5.94mil, as a starting point.

They're probably settle on something like this:

Age 28: 8mil
Age 29: 8mil
Age 30: 8mil
Age 31: 8mil
Age 32: 7mil
Age 33: 5mil
Age 34: 5mil
Age 35: 5mil

8 years at 6.75mil

Miller set the bar for the Canucks by taking an 8mil cap hit over 7 years. Horvat isn't worth the same, he's more of a 50-60 point guy. So 7mil x 6 years, or 6.75mil at 8 years, or something in that range is what I expect him to get.