Hopefully this team learns to sell high

[shakes]

So which one of you geniuses would have honestly traded Phaneuf, Kessel, and Lupul at the trade deadline?

At what point do you stop trying to accumulate draft picks, and actually try to do something with the players you have?

Never.. people on here love their draft picks and while Kessel is an elite level forward that ANY team would love to have on their team, think of the draft picks that the Leafs could get!!! Then if any of those picks happened to turn out good, they could then trade them for a bunch more picks. He who has the most draft picks, wins. That's the name of the game around here.

 

[Mess]

So, lets trade kadri then, right?

We should also be trading JVR.

If you can trade a player and improve your team, obviously it should be considered. But this thread is fully of people saying that players should be traded simply because they are a hot commodity. This isn't always the case and isn't always whats best for the team (ie the guy stating he'd trade Bernier).

If trading Kadri and/or JVR to land a #1C or #1D core positional needs then why not as it would be done under the premiss of improving the team?

I don't think they're saying that at all.. Its based on the team, its competitiveness and asset management and team building. Cup contending teams don't sell their best players just because their value is how.

 

[ACC1224]

This sounds like a hindsight thread.

 

[desperateblue]

Cup contending teams draft well and have patience and let the draft picks develope.
It makes no sense to collect picks draft guys then give up on them.
This team has to many holes to fill to think any one player is more important than two or three others.

 

[BiggestLeafsFanEVER*]

this thread is just another way of saying we should trade kessel.

except obviously we shouldn't do that

 

[seanlinden]

Raymond is the best example of poor asset management.

• Great cap hit
• Good numbers
• Trailed off as the season went on, we already got the most out of him already
• UFA expecting a raise
• Was never going to be the difference between making the playoffs or not
• Obvious not all UFA's could be signed in the summer, should get something for at least one you won't be signing

He was practically screaming "trade me" and still nothing to show for it now.

Again, this was a hindsight 20/20 thing.

Raymond scored a ton of key goals for us. No, he didn't reach 20, but if he had done so, it might have made the difference between making the playoffs or not, or facing Boston in the first round.

What we were hoping to get from Raymond was a playoff appearance (and hopefully, an extended one).

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

Would have kept Grabovski and traded Lupul last off-season. You could tell once Randy came on that Lupes was not going to produce the same as with Wilson.

 

[Diatomic]

Sell high on bozo bozak, do it nonis!!!

 

[ForSpareParts*]

Sell high on bozo bozak, do it nonis!!!

That's not a bad plan.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Regarding Raymond - that was the knock on him from Canucks fans. He fades come playoff time. He's nowhere to be found when things get tight defensively. So I agree, we got what we were going to get

And this thread is not about trading Kessel. It's about the Leafs holding on to players too long, or extending them/signing them when their values are low
Having said that would I trade Kessel for the right deal? Absolutely

 

[Al14]

That's not a bad plan as long as you trade Kessel too.

Fixed it for ya!

 

[nuck]

Look at where Anaheim and the Habs were two years ago and where they are today. Fans and media were preaching blow it up in both cases. It turns around that quickly and clubs rely on that. There are no sell high options most of the time, except to trade a player for a similar talent.

There will be no tear down of the existing club because ownership has never been that patient. Clarkson was a "finishing piece" to bring them to the next level. Thats how close they thought they were. Unless Kessel pops wood in the shower he is going nowhere and Bozak's value is primarly as a remora on Kessel so can't sell him off. Maybe JVR except isn't he the type of player they need to add, both cheap and productive? Bernier is a young goalie with #1 talent to build around. Nobody trades these guys after they have broken out.

I see no sell high candidates at all unless you mean maybe Dion, but that makes their soft D even softer and who takes over the top pairing duties? That is a gamble ownership won't allow because they have mever looked more than a couple of years ahead. An unfortunate side effect of making truckloads of money, even when the product is mediocre. They will change the coach and give a year for some results before heads start rolling in the lineup. We can have the sell high talk in another year.

 

[hockeyes]

Again, this was a hindsight 20/20 thing.

Raymond scored a ton of key goals for us. No, he didn't reach 20, but if he had done so, it might have made the difference between making the playoffs or not, or facing Boston in the first round.

What we were hoping to get from Raymond was a playoff appearance (and hopefully, an extended one).

I had the same opinion before TDL, during the TDL and after the TDL.

I liked Raymond for his cost, absolutely, but he was never going to push this team anywhere. It's not like dealing Raymond was Nonis pulling the pin on the season or anything.

 

[Tak7]

This team isn't a seller.

Leiweke already confirmed this.

Any trades will be "hockey trades", not trying to recoup future assets.

Good shout on Bozak though. I think that he's going to regress to a more average performance next season and this season will be more of one-off rather than him establishing himself.

 

[seanlinden]

Regarding Raymond - that was the knock on him from Canucks fans. He fades come playoff time. He's nowhere to be found when things get tight defensively. So I agree, we got what we were going to get

And this thread is not about trading Kessel. It's about the Leafs holding on to players too long, or extending them/signing them when their values are low
Having said that would I trade Kessel for the right deal? Absolutely

Who's to say in forsight, that it's too long. Low relative to what?

I had the same opinion before TDL, during the TDL and after the TDL.

I liked Raymond for his cost, absolutely, but he was never going to push this team anywhere. It's not like dealing Raymond was Nonis pulling the pin on the season or anything.

The fact is, Raymond was scoring clutch goals. Of our 8-game stretch, I believe we lost the majority of them by 1 goal (or had an empty netter scored against us). Raymond certainly had the potential to be a difference maker.

Dealing him would've absolutely been pulling the plug on the season. The guy was on his way to 20, and played on the 2nd powerplay. What kind of message are you sending when you trade a guy like that away?

As for the suggestion of Bozak, who's to say that trading him now would be trading high? The people on this board aren't smarter than any of the 30 GMs out there. They're going to value him fairly, just like we would. If we trade him, we're going to lose on the chemistry he brings with Kessel.

 

[DD03]

Sell high on bozo bozak, do it nonis!!!

It's not selling high on Bozak when he has a career year. No one will overpay for that.

 

[egd27]

I honestly don't think that Bolland (especially given his injuries), Raymond and Kuelmin are the difference between just making the playoffs and going deep. And obviously they weren't a factor at all down the stretch.

Wasn't trying to suggest that they were going deep or that those 3 were difference makers. But teams in a position to battle for home ice (which they were at the time) don't trade off what little depth they have for futures.

If the supposedly inevitable collapse that "everyone" was predicting occurred after selling off Kulemin and Raymond, Nonis would be out of work.

 

[seanlinden]

It's not selling high on Bozak when he has a career year. No one will overpay for that.

So who's a "sell high" player right now?

 

[Stephen]

Of course it does.

Our current roster, from a forward perspective, is built around Phil Kessel. If you trade him, you have to rebuild the forward group around somebody else.

As for the general purpose of this thread, just like the stock market, there's no such thing as selling high or selling low, there's only selling at current value. At any point in time, a player's value can go up or can go down.

From a team building / winning perspective, you generally need your most valuable players.

Not necessarily. Let's say you got Ryan Johansen, Boone Jenner and a draft pick back. Right away Johansen could be tried out on the top line with JVR, Jenner on a bottom 2 line apprentice role. The whole dynamic of the group is already much bigger and grittier and not geared for one rush chances.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

At what point do you stop trying to accumulate draft picks, and actually try to do something with the players you have?

Not when you finish 12th in the East.

 

[The CyNick]

It's a tough situation to be in.

This team definitely has been bad at selling their assets at the right time but in hindsight, it would have been hard to sell said assets when it looked like they were worth keeping, if that makes sense.

I was very pro-trade the pending UFA's for picks at the deadline, even at our position, especially a player like Raymond. But I also said I understand why they didn't and really, it's hard to blame them. You don't make your team weaker by selling off assets, especially not for a mid-round pick or two. As a fan, it makes sense but as GM trying to win, it makes no sense to get a pick that won't have any impact for 3 to 5 years.

Bottom line, Leafs do need to get better at evaluating their teams position and also their depth coming up. D'Amigo and Ashton showed in their short tenure and ice time that they can be relied upon as bottom 6 players, and I think that makes one or two players expendable... but the Leafs couldn't see much beyond trying to make the playoffs at all cost. It really sucks losing players like Grabovski, MacArthur and probably more now for absolutely nothing in return.

the return for most of our RFAs would have been weak. Vanek wad acquired for a ham sandwich. nobody we had available would have been more valuable than vanek.

We can only start don't that when we have guys on the farm knocking on the door to take spots. It's another one of those things we should strive to get to.

 

[Sonofamitch]

It's not selling high on Bozak when he has a career year. No one will overpay for that.

If you package him with Kessel I think it would be pretty attractive. 2/3rds of one of the better offensive lines in the league.

 

[ShaneFalco]

So who's a "sell high" player right now?

I think they've missed their chances for selling high this year
Lupul - was probably last year
Franson - same
I would agree with Bozak but we unless they find a replacement........
Maybe you look at Gardiner or Kadri if you can get youth for youth

 

[Ricky Bobby]

So who's a "sell high" player right now?

Kadri + Gunnarson are the top candidates because of their contracts.

 

[kihei]

"Sell high; buy low." Great idea. Reminds me of the advice my Little League batting coach used to give us pitchers: "Keep the ball in the strike zone but don't give 'em anything to hit." In both instances, easier said than done.