HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 9
- Thread starter Dr John Carlson
- Start date
Igor Shesterkin has already accomplished more than Liut and Giacomin in the playoffs.
Richter had some pretty solid peaks in 94 and 96 (World Cup).
Surely we have Connell above Chabot, No?
Cheevers has a short prime behind a powerhouse team (with1.5 Cup runs), for whatever it's worth, he's arguably the best WHA goaltender for at least the year he wins the Hatskin, and then he's potentially a net negative a lot of his late career (though he's 35+).
Richter had some pretty solid peaks in 94 and 96 (World Cup).
Surely we have Connell above Chabot, No?
Cheevers has a short prime behind a powerhouse team (with1.5 Cup runs), for whatever it's worth, he's arguably the best WHA goaltender for at least the year he wins the Hatskin, and then he's potentially a net negative a lot of his late career (though he's 35+).
MXD
Partying Hard
- Oct 27, 2005
- 51,801
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jigglysquishy
Registered User
Vezina Shares
Stolen from @TheDevilMadeMe 's methodology and updated to 2024
There are 22 goalies with a 1.0 share or higher
Bolded are eligible. Italicized are inducted
Fleury is at 0.86, Richter is at 0.21
Times top 3
Rinne - 4 (1,2,2,3)
Liut - 2 (1,2)
Rask - 2 (1,2)
Quick - 2 (2,3)
Shesterkin - 1 (1)
Fleury 1 - (1)
Richter 1 - (3)
All-Star Team Finishes (1945 onwards)
Stolen from @TheDevilMadeMe 's methodology and updated to 2024
There are 22 goalies with a 1.0 share or higher
| Goalie | Times | Share | |
| 1 | Martin Brodeur | 15 | 5.40 |
| 2 | Dominik Hasek | 11 | 4.76 |
| 3 | Patrick Roy | 17 | 4.63 |
| 4 | Connor Hellebucyk | 5 | 2.63 |
| 5 | Ed Belfour | 11 | 2.51 |
| 6 | Pekka Rinne | 5 | 2.12 |
| 7 | Andrei Vasilevsky | 6 | 2.05 |
| 8 | Tom Barrasso | 7 | 1.98 |
| 9 | Sergei Bobrovsky | 6 | 1.97 |
| 10 | Henrik Lundqvist | 10 | 1.93 |
| 11 | Grant Fuhr | 8 | 1.84 |
| 12 | Braden Holtby | 3 | 1.68 |
| 13 | Roberto Luongo | 9 | 1.66 |
| 14 | Tim Thomas | 3 | 1.55 |
| 15 | John Vanbiesbrouck | 9 | 1.52 |
| 16 | Tuukka Rask | 5 | 1.50 |
| 17 | Miikka Kiprusoff | 7 | 1.44 |
| 18 | Carey Price | 7 | 1.40 |
| 19 | Evgeni Nabokov | 6 | 1.23 |
| 20 | Curtis Joseph | 8 | 1.02 |
| 21 | Pete Peeters | 3 | 1.02 |
| 22 | Igor Shesterkin | 3 | 1.02 |
Fleury is at 0.86, Richter is at 0.21
Times top 3
Rinne - 4 (1,2,2,3)
Liut - 2 (1,2)
Rask - 2 (1,2)
Quick - 2 (2,3)
Shesterkin - 1 (1)
Fleury 1 - (1)
Richter 1 - (3)
All-Star Team Finishes (1945 onwards)
| Player | First | Second | Third | Total | Weighted Total |
| Ed Giacomin | 1 | 3 | 0 | 4 | 14 |
| Pekka Rinne | 1 | 1 | 2 | 4 | 10 |
| Mike Liut | 1 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 9 |
| Chuck Rayner | 0 | 3 | 0 | 3 | 9 |
| Tuukka Rask | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 8 |
| Igor Shesterkin | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 5 |
| Marc-Andre Fleury | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 3 |
| Gerry Cheevers | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Mike Richter | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Last edited:
Gerulaitis
Registered User
- Apr 19, 2024
- 177
- 105
For the 2010+ group.
I find Rinne/Rask extremely comparable to be honest. Both very consistent numbers, but both played on strong teams (especially strong defensive teams) their whole careers, which definitely helps them. Last round I had Rask above Rinne barely, but didn't really consider either/or seriously. I think they both should be contenders this week (certainly for top 10, if not as obviously for top 5), but not sure who should be first. Does anyone feel strongly that one should rank significantly above the other?
MAF - I posted him a lot about him the previous round. Essentially to me - he has the most complete resume of any goalie left by a long shot. Tremendous career and longevity, including regular season and playoff success. His issues are that his sustained peak isn't that high (ex, Shesterkin's best ~3-4 seasons are easily above, and he only has 4 seasons total...) - and if you deduct points for bad performances, his stock certainly suffers. For me - I think he has enough highs, and has always bounced back in his career from bad performances, that's he's probably my #1 in this round at the moment.
Shesterkin - I have no idea. My brain needs to compute how to rank 4 seasons worth vs everyone else's full careers. I could see him anywhere from #1 (top 4 seasons he's easily #1 right?) to NR.
I find Rinne/Rask extremely comparable to be honest. Both very consistent numbers, but both played on strong teams (especially strong defensive teams) their whole careers, which definitely helps them. Last round I had Rask above Rinne barely, but didn't really consider either/or seriously. I think they both should be contenders this week (certainly for top 10, if not as obviously for top 5), but not sure who should be first. Does anyone feel strongly that one should rank significantly above the other?
MAF - I posted him a lot about him the previous round. Essentially to me - he has the most complete resume of any goalie left by a long shot. Tremendous career and longevity, including regular season and playoff success. His issues are that his sustained peak isn't that high (ex, Shesterkin's best ~3-4 seasons are easily above, and he only has 4 seasons total...) - and if you deduct points for bad performances, his stock certainly suffers. For me - I think he has enough highs, and has always bounced back in his career from bad performances, that's he's probably my #1 in this round at the moment.
Shesterkin - I have no idea. My brain needs to compute how to rank 4 seasons worth vs everyone else's full careers. I could see him anywhere from #1 (top 4 seasons he's easily #1 right?) to NR.
Professor What
Registered User
So, someone said that they thought that Rinne and Rask would be an interesting comparison. I said that I favored Rinne, and I'll try to explain why now.
It really has a lot to do with Rask for me. We joke around about goalies being goofy characters, and there are plenty of personalities to fit the stereotype. Less funnily, we also talk about goalies being some of the more mentally fragile players. I think with what they face, that's understandable, but a guy that is particularly susceptible to that shouldn't fare as well. I think that's Rask.
I've already admitted that his meltdown in game 6 of the 2013 Finals might get too much weight from me, but I also think that's because it fits his persona. He was prone to outbursts, and I often felt that he didn't have control of himself. I don't think it's any surprise that he lost some starting time to an inferior goalie who was unstable himself (though admittedly Thomas hit a hot streak that's a little difficult to explain). Rask simply wasn't stable. You can do a Google search for Tuukka Rask and get no shortage of results.
Rinne meanwhile always struck me as a much more stable personality. He'd have the occasional season where he wasn't necessarily up to snuff, but bad Rinne never felt as unstable as bad Rask did. Rinne gave more confidence of recovery for me than Rask did. If Rinne was off his game, it didn't concern me the way it did when Rask was off of his. I always felt that Rinne could put his crap back together a lot more easily.
Now, I will say that Rask's overall playoff record looks better to me, though I also think that Rinne's contribution to the 2017 run were significant. Whereas I feel that the Bruins lost a Cup thanks to Rask (after an admittedly strong overall run), I feel that the 2017 Preds don't get anywhere near the run they had without Rinne.
The split for me is taking Rask in the playoffs and Rinne in the regular season, but Rinne's strength has a lot more play involved in it, and, again, I just feel that he's the more stable individual.
As for other candidates, the one that jumps out the most to me is Shesterkin. Somebody please sell me on the idea that he should be on the list here. He didn't make my initial list, largely because he just doesn't have a lot of time in (basically 4 years) and he's got one real standout season. Is he talented? Unquestionably in my opinion. But is there enough meat on the bone for him to make the list, let alone at this point? Maybe in future years there would be, but I simply don't see it. That said, if someone can make the case, I'm open to it.
It really has a lot to do with Rask for me. We joke around about goalies being goofy characters, and there are plenty of personalities to fit the stereotype. Less funnily, we also talk about goalies being some of the more mentally fragile players. I think with what they face, that's understandable, but a guy that is particularly susceptible to that shouldn't fare as well. I think that's Rask.
I've already admitted that his meltdown in game 6 of the 2013 Finals might get too much weight from me, but I also think that's because it fits his persona. He was prone to outbursts, and I often felt that he didn't have control of himself. I don't think it's any surprise that he lost some starting time to an inferior goalie who was unstable himself (though admittedly Thomas hit a hot streak that's a little difficult to explain). Rask simply wasn't stable. You can do a Google search for Tuukka Rask and get no shortage of results.
Rinne meanwhile always struck me as a much more stable personality. He'd have the occasional season where he wasn't necessarily up to snuff, but bad Rinne never felt as unstable as bad Rask did. Rinne gave more confidence of recovery for me than Rask did. If Rinne was off his game, it didn't concern me the way it did when Rask was off of his. I always felt that Rinne could put his crap back together a lot more easily.
Now, I will say that Rask's overall playoff record looks better to me, though I also think that Rinne's contribution to the 2017 run were significant. Whereas I feel that the Bruins lost a Cup thanks to Rask (after an admittedly strong overall run), I feel that the 2017 Preds don't get anywhere near the run they had without Rinne.
The split for me is taking Rask in the playoffs and Rinne in the regular season, but Rinne's strength has a lot more play involved in it, and, again, I just feel that he's the more stable individual.
As for other candidates, the one that jumps out the most to me is Shesterkin. Somebody please sell me on the idea that he should be on the list here. He didn't make my initial list, largely because he just doesn't have a lot of time in (basically 4 years) and he's got one real standout season. Is he talented? Unquestionably in my opinion. But is there enough meat on the bone for him to make the list, let alone at this point? Maybe in future years there would be, but I simply don't see it. That said, if someone can make the case, I'm open to it.
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
Shestyorkin's four straight years of elite play is more or less a luxury at this point in the list. He has a first (2024) and second-team (2022) playoff all-star nod too: Playoff All-Star Teams
Professor What
Registered User
Does he really have anything in the regular season that compares to his Vezina season though? I see four really good years, no doubt, but as far as truly elite play, I see 2021-22.
I can admit that one thing that hurts him in my eyes is that I like better longevity. I admit I like his playoff performance. I just don't feel that he's established enough yet.
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
I think that's fair enough. I debated if he crossed the "threshold" for qualification for me. I think he's been in the conversation for best goalie since he stepped foot in the league. So once he reached that threshold, he ranked very high for me (I assume I'll be the highest on him by dozens of places). Of all the goalies, I don't feel compelled to really make a big public case for him because I think it's very reasonable to go "not ready yet" on him.
I mean, Christ, look at the prevailing reticence on Andrei Vasilevskiy from rounds before haha - by that precedent, Shestyorkin can take a hike...
jigglysquishy
Registered User
Every Lorne Chabot playoff game
1927 Playoffs
Rangers and Bruins tie 0-0 in a two-game total-goal series
The Calgary Daily Herald · Apr 4, 1927
Bruins win 3-1
Ottawa Citizen · Apr 5, 1927
1928 Playoffs
Rangers beat Pirates 4-0 in a two-game total-goal series
The Montreal Gazette · Mar 28, 1928
Pirates win 4-2, but lose series 6-4
The Saskatoon Phoenix · Mar 30, 1928
Rangers and Bruins tie 1-1 in a two-game total-goal series
The Montreal Gazette · Apr 2, 1928
Rangers win 4-1 to win series 5-2
The Calgary Daily Herald · Apr 4, 1928
1928 Stanley Cup Finals
Maroons beat Rangers 2-0 in a best-of-five series
Rangers 0 Maroons 1
The Border Cities Star · Apr 6, 1928
Rangers win 2-1 in OT
Rangers 1 Maroons 1
Chabot is injured early in the second period after getting a puck to the eye from a shot by Nels Stewart. He is replaced in goal by coach Lester Patrick. Chabot is declared out for the series as he suffered "a hemorrhage of the anterior and posterior chambers of the eye."
Maroons win 2-0
Rangers 1 Maroons 2
Joe Miller played in relief of Lorne Chabot
Rangers win 1-0
Rangers 2 Maroons 2
Joe Miller played in relief of Lorne Chabot
Rangers win 2-1
Joe Miller played in relief of Lorne Chabot
Here is the famous Lester Patrick game. I have updated Wikipedia to reflect which goalie played in which game (it had Chabot in net all series).
Having a weak goalie like Joe Miller replace you and win the Cup isn't a good look. Neither is having 43 year old coach Lester Patrick win an OT game.
Chabot gets lots of praise though. So it's hard to reconcile those two. Frank Boucher gets immense praise all playoffs and is easily the star of the Rangers. If there was a Conn Smythe in 1928, Frank Boucher would be the unanimous pick.
1929 Playoffs
Leafs beat Cougars 3-1 in a two-game total-goal series
Ottawa Citizen · Mar 20, 1929
Leafs win 4-1 to win series 7-2
The Border Cities Star · Mar 22, 1929
Rangers beat Leafs 1-0 in a two-game total-goal series
No relevant comments on Chabot or JR Roach in the other net. Ace Bailey and Frank Boucher star.
Rangers win 2-1 in OT to win series 2-0
The Border Cities Star · Mar 27, 1929
All in all, the most praised Leaf this run.
1931 Playoffs
Leafs and Black Hawks tie 2-2 in a two-game total-goal series
No relevant comments
Black Hawks win 2-1 in OT to win series 4-3
Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · Mar 27, 1931
Very little talk about Chabot this round. King Clancy stars for the Leafs
1932 Playoffs
Black Hawks win 1-0 in a two-game total-goal series
No relevant comments. Massive praise to Charlie Gardiner though.
Leafs win 6-1 to win series 6-2
No relevant comments. More praise for Gardiner. No one stands out for the Leafs here, but Conacher is probably the most praised.
Maroons and Leafs tie 1-1 in a two-game total-goal series
No relevant comments
Leafs win 3-2 in OT to win series 4-3
Shots: Leafs 71 Maroons 43 (hmmmmm)
No relevant comments
1932 Stanley Cup Finals
Leafs beat Rangers 6-4 in a best of five series. Games 1 and 2 are played in Boston because the circus is at MSG.
Shots: Leafs 28 Rangers 32
Leafs 1 Rangers 0
The Montreal Gazette · Apr 6, 1932
Leafs win 6-2
Leafs 2 Rangers 0
Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · Apr 8, 1932
Leafs win 6-4
Shots: Leafs 56 Rangers 36
Leafs 3 Rangers 0
Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · Apr 11, 1932
Chabot doesn't get that much praise throughout the playoffs. In the finals, the Leafs thoroughly outplay the Rangers. If JRR is less than spectacular the games are less close.
Conacher is likely the Conn Smythe winner for Toronto, with King Clancy coming second. Frank Boucher and Busher Jackson for third.
1933 Playoffs
Bruins beat Leafs 2-1 in OT in a best-of-five series
Leafs 0 Bruins 1
No relevant comments
Leafs win 1-0 in OT
Leafs 1 Bruins 1
No relevant comments
Bruins win 2-1 in OT
Leafs 1 Bruins 2
Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · Mar 31, 1933
Leafs win 5-3
Leafs 2 Bruins 2
No relevant comments
Leafs win 1-0 in 6OT
Shots: Leafs 112 Bruins 89
Leafs 3 Bruins 2
Ottawa Citizen · Apr 4, 1933
Chabot Brilliant
1933 Stanley Cup Finals
Rangers beat Leafs 5-1 in a best-of-five series
Leafs 0 Rangers 1
No relevant comments
Rangers win 3-1
Leafs 0 Rangers 2
The Leader-Post · Apr 10, 1933
Leafs win 3-2
Leafs 1 Rangers 2
The Calgary Daily Herald · Apr 12, 1933
Rangers win 1-0 in OT
Leafs 1 Rangers 3
The Montreal Gazette · Apr 14, 1933
Not much to go on here. Rangers just work the Leafs. Cook-Boucher-Cook line stars, but Dillon sweeps in with a big goal total. No one outside Clancy, Chabot, and Jackson get much praise on the Leafs. Was expecting more praise for a Cup finalist.
1934 Playoffs
Hawks (Gardiner) beat Canadiens (Chabot) 3-2 in a two-game total-goal series
The Montreal Gazette · Mar 23, 1934
Habs Hawks tie 1-1 in OT. Black Hawks win series 3-2
No relevant comments.
Morenz gets the big praise this series.
1935 Playoffs
Black Hawks (Chabot) tie Maroons (Connell) 0-0 in a two-game total-goal series
The Montreal Gazette · Mar 25, 1935 ·
Maroons win 1-0 in OT to win series
No relevant comments, but papers do report that Chabot announced his retirement.
1936 Playoffs
Red Wings (Smith) beat Maroons (Chabot) 1-0 in 6 OT in a best-of-five series
Shots: Maroons 92 Wings 66
Maroons 0 Red Wings 1
The Windsor Daily Star · Mar 25, 1936
Red Wings win 3-0
Maroons 0 Red Wings 2
No relevant comments.
Red Wings win 2-1
Maroons 0 Red Wings 3
No relevant comments.
Overall, I mean, it's okay? He has strong games here and there, but most of the time he's not the best player on his team. His 1928-1932 run is his peak. But I'm very cognisant that the 1932 Leafs were quite strong and he's not in the top three most praised Leafs on the Cup winner. 1933-1936 don't do much for me either. The mercenary thing doesn't generate much praise.
All in all, I think he's clearly behind Connell and Kerr for 1925-1940 era goalies for me. Both have a better signature playoff run and just get more consistent praise.
We have four goalies up this round who all peaked in a relatively short window (aforementioned plus Roach). I'm definitely leaning towards Connell being first.
We've been kind to 1930s era goalies so I'm not in a rush to induct a bunch more. After Connell, none are really standing out to me as needing to be inducted this round.
1927 Playoffs
Rangers and Bruins tie 0-0 in a two-game total-goal series
The Calgary Daily Herald · Apr 4, 1927
Bruins win 3-1
Ottawa Citizen · Apr 5, 1927
1928 Playoffs
Rangers beat Pirates 4-0 in a two-game total-goal series
The Montreal Gazette · Mar 28, 1928
Pirates win 4-2, but lose series 6-4
The Saskatoon Phoenix · Mar 30, 1928
Rangers and Bruins tie 1-1 in a two-game total-goal series
The Montreal Gazette · Apr 2, 1928
Rangers win 4-1 to win series 5-2
The Calgary Daily Herald · Apr 4, 1928
1928 Stanley Cup Finals
Maroons beat Rangers 2-0 in a best-of-five series
Rangers 0 Maroons 1
The Border Cities Star · Apr 6, 1928
Rangers win 2-1 in OT
Rangers 1 Maroons 1
Chabot is injured early in the second period after getting a puck to the eye from a shot by Nels Stewart. He is replaced in goal by coach Lester Patrick. Chabot is declared out for the series as he suffered "a hemorrhage of the anterior and posterior chambers of the eye."
Maroons win 2-0
Rangers 1 Maroons 2
Joe Miller played in relief of Lorne Chabot
Rangers win 1-0
Rangers 2 Maroons 2
Joe Miller played in relief of Lorne Chabot
Rangers win 2-1
Joe Miller played in relief of Lorne Chabot
Here is the famous Lester Patrick game. I have updated Wikipedia to reflect which goalie played in which game (it had Chabot in net all series).
Having a weak goalie like Joe Miller replace you and win the Cup isn't a good look. Neither is having 43 year old coach Lester Patrick win an OT game.
Chabot gets lots of praise though. So it's hard to reconcile those two. Frank Boucher gets immense praise all playoffs and is easily the star of the Rangers. If there was a Conn Smythe in 1928, Frank Boucher would be the unanimous pick.
1929 Playoffs
Leafs beat Cougars 3-1 in a two-game total-goal series
Ottawa Citizen · Mar 20, 1929
Leafs win 4-1 to win series 7-2
The Border Cities Star · Mar 22, 1929
Rangers beat Leafs 1-0 in a two-game total-goal series
No relevant comments on Chabot or JR Roach in the other net. Ace Bailey and Frank Boucher star.
Rangers win 2-1 in OT to win series 2-0
The Border Cities Star · Mar 27, 1929
All in all, the most praised Leaf this run.
1931 Playoffs
Leafs and Black Hawks tie 2-2 in a two-game total-goal series
No relevant comments
Black Hawks win 2-1 in OT to win series 4-3
Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · Mar 27, 1931
Very little talk about Chabot this round. King Clancy stars for the Leafs
1932 Playoffs
Black Hawks win 1-0 in a two-game total-goal series
No relevant comments. Massive praise to Charlie Gardiner though.
Leafs win 6-1 to win series 6-2
No relevant comments. More praise for Gardiner. No one stands out for the Leafs here, but Conacher is probably the most praised.
Maroons and Leafs tie 1-1 in a two-game total-goal series
No relevant comments
Leafs win 3-2 in OT to win series 4-3
Shots: Leafs 71 Maroons 43 (hmmmmm)
No relevant comments
1932 Stanley Cup Finals
Leafs beat Rangers 6-4 in a best of five series. Games 1 and 2 are played in Boston because the circus is at MSG.
Shots: Leafs 28 Rangers 32
Leafs 1 Rangers 0
The Montreal Gazette · Apr 6, 1932
Leafs win 6-2
Leafs 2 Rangers 0
Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · Apr 8, 1932
Leafs win 6-4
Shots: Leafs 56 Rangers 36
Leafs 3 Rangers 0
Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · Apr 11, 1932
Chabot doesn't get that much praise throughout the playoffs. In the finals, the Leafs thoroughly outplay the Rangers. If JRR is less than spectacular the games are less close.
Conacher is likely the Conn Smythe winner for Toronto, with King Clancy coming second. Frank Boucher and Busher Jackson for third.
1933 Playoffs
Bruins beat Leafs 2-1 in OT in a best-of-five series
Leafs 0 Bruins 1
No relevant comments
Leafs win 1-0 in OT
Leafs 1 Bruins 1
No relevant comments
Bruins win 2-1 in OT
Leafs 1 Bruins 2
Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · Mar 31, 1933
Leafs win 5-3
Leafs 2 Bruins 2
No relevant comments
Leafs win 1-0 in 6OT
Shots: Leafs 112 Bruins 89
Leafs 3 Bruins 2
Ottawa Citizen · Apr 4, 1933
Chabot Brilliant
1933 Stanley Cup Finals
Rangers beat Leafs 5-1 in a best-of-five series
Leafs 0 Rangers 1
No relevant comments
Rangers win 3-1
Leafs 0 Rangers 2
The Leader-Post · Apr 10, 1933
Leafs win 3-2
Leafs 1 Rangers 2
The Calgary Daily Herald · Apr 12, 1933
Rangers win 1-0 in OT
Leafs 1 Rangers 3
The Montreal Gazette · Apr 14, 1933
Not much to go on here. Rangers just work the Leafs. Cook-Boucher-Cook line stars, but Dillon sweeps in with a big goal total. No one outside Clancy, Chabot, and Jackson get much praise on the Leafs. Was expecting more praise for a Cup finalist.
1934 Playoffs
Hawks (Gardiner) beat Canadiens (Chabot) 3-2 in a two-game total-goal series
The Montreal Gazette · Mar 23, 1934
Habs Hawks tie 1-1 in OT. Black Hawks win series 3-2
No relevant comments.
Morenz gets the big praise this series.
1935 Playoffs
Black Hawks (Chabot) tie Maroons (Connell) 0-0 in a two-game total-goal series
The Montreal Gazette · Mar 25, 1935 ·
Maroons win 1-0 in OT to win series
No relevant comments, but papers do report that Chabot announced his retirement.
1936 Playoffs
Red Wings (Smith) beat Maroons (Chabot) 1-0 in 6 OT in a best-of-five series
Shots: Maroons 92 Wings 66
Maroons 0 Red Wings 1
The Windsor Daily Star · Mar 25, 1936
Red Wings win 3-0
Maroons 0 Red Wings 2
No relevant comments.
Red Wings win 2-1
Maroons 0 Red Wings 3
No relevant comments.
Overall, I mean, it's okay? He has strong games here and there, but most of the time he's not the best player on his team. His 1928-1932 run is his peak. But I'm very cognisant that the 1932 Leafs were quite strong and he's not in the top three most praised Leafs on the Cup winner. 1933-1936 don't do much for me either. The mercenary thing doesn't generate much praise.
All in all, I think he's clearly behind Connell and Kerr for 1925-1940 era goalies for me. Both have a better signature playoff run and just get more consistent praise.
We have four goalies up this round who all peaked in a relatively short window (aforementioned plus Roach). I'm definitely leaning towards Connell being first.
We've been kind to 1930s era goalies so I'm not in a rush to induct a bunch more. After Connell, none are really standing out to me as needing to be inducted this round.
Professor What
Registered User
It seems like the commentary on his game is neutral at worst, but I guess you can ask how much of that is a team effect, particularly after 1928.
I agree that he's behind Connell and Kerr. Those two are battling near the top of my ballot at first gut instinct. Chabot is battling to be on the ballot. And I'm not sure I see much to separate him from Roach, who's also battling for the tail end of the ballot.
Professor What
Registered User
I had to go back and look at what you were talking about with Vasi, but yeah (I forgot how polarizing he was). I didn't really know what to do with him, if I'm honest. I was one of the mass of NRs on him in the first round. I could see the case, but I wasn't fully sold on it. When he actually went onto the board, he was about the middle of my ballot, so I was okay with it.
Anyway, as to what that means for now, if I wasn't sure what to do with Vasi at first (and I actually like Vasi, just apparently not as much as this group as a whole), Shesterkin might as well be an alien right now. I'm not sure that I see him ever making my ballot. That said, enough people had him on their preliminary lists that he's come up, so I could be overridden for sure. I'm not going to lose sleep over it. I think he gets there one day. I just don't think that today is the day.
I’ve mentioned it before, but here it goes again- in my opinion, Paddy Moran was the best goalie of his time, and the project is woefully late in discussing him. Outside of playing in the early days of hockey, his resume has everything you would want for a project like this; the peak is there, with numerous mentions for all-star and claims that he was the best goalie around. The longevity is there, with equally plentiful mentions of him being the greatest or one of the greatest of all time. The competition is even there- there are multiple quotes of Moran being considered Vezina’s equal for the few seasons they overlapped, and his career overlapped with other Hall of Famers like Hugh Lehman, Hap Holmes, Percy LeSueur, and Riley Hern. He won championships (in 1904 Quebec HC won the CAHL; successful Stanley Cup victories in 1912 (wins of 9-3 and 8-0 against Moncton) and 1913 (wins of 14-3 and 6-2 against Sydney), and, on the flip side, showed that he could be a star on a poor team as well.
Like with LeSueur, I haven’t gone through Moran’s entire career on a game-by-game basis, like I have for the pre-1910 seasons. I have some quotes and comments from later years, but they are not comprehensive.
I highly encourage everyone to click on all the spoilers for the various quotes I have compiled. However, in case people don’t want to read what is about 18 pages of data, here are a couple main themes:
1902: with Quebec HC, CAHL
1903: with Quebec HC, CAHL
1904: with Quebec HC, CAHL
1905: with Quebec HC, CAHL
1906: with Quebec HC, ECAHA
1907: with Quebec HC, ECAHA
1908: with Quebec HC, ECAHA
1909: with Quebec HC, ECHA
All Star Teams, Notes from Contemporaries, and Interesting Notes
Like with LeSueur, I haven’t gone through Moran’s entire career on a game-by-game basis, like I have for the pre-1910 seasons. I have some quotes and comments from later years, but they are not comprehensive.
I highly encourage everyone to click on all the spoilers for the various quotes I have compiled. However, in case people don’t want to read what is about 18 pages of data, here are a couple main themes:
- Moran has excellent longevity for the era, playing until age 40,
- Moran also had a very high peak, often being mentioned as the best in the world (as early as 1904 and as late as 1915) and/or the greatest of all time,
- He was highly sought after; when professionalism began, there are reports of Moran being offered $100/month plus a regular job in 1904, which a paper reported “if any goal keeper is worth the figure, he is Paddy Moran”, and then in 1910 Art Ross reportedly signed a $4,000 contract then paid $2,000 of it to secure Moran for the team,
- The greatest goalscorer of the pre-1910 period (Russell Bowie) named Paddy Moran the hardest goalie to beat,
- Good goalies and/or goalie play were measured up to Moran/Moran’s play, and the great goalies that came later were often compared to Moran,
- Finally, Moran was in the first group of living goalies admitted to the Hall of Fame, ahead of guys we’ve already voted onto our list like Tiny Thompson, George Hainsworth, Percy LeSueur, Clint Benedict, Roy Worters, and Hap Holmes (I think I only got the guys who were retired by the time the HoF opened).
1902: with Quebec HC, CAHL
Context: Quebec HC finished 4-4, tied for third in a 5 team league. The CAHL was almost certainly the best league in existence at that time; other major leagues were the MHA, OHA, and WPHL.
Selected Quotes (Sources: Ottawa Citizen, Ottawa Journal, Montreal Gazette, Montreal Star, Quebec Chronicle, Montreal Herald)
“No men on either team, however, played more brilliantly than the two goalers. Moran in particular distinguishing himself”
“Moran in Quebec’s goal did some most phenomenal stopping and the game was mostly won by him and Quebec’s defence”
“Moran, the goalkeeper of the easterners, was invincible, and stopped shot after shot in rapid succession.”
“Moran in the poles was a tower of strength, stopping shots that seemed almost impossible”
Moran, the Quebec goal tender, Holliday, the point man, and Hod. Stewart, who was on the forward line, played a game in which offences against the rules was a leading part. Moran did a lot of slashing with his stick and had to be ruled off several times- a thing that is not usually the case with goal tends”
“Moran, as usual, put up a star game, and he is largely responsible for the Vics’ defeat”
“For Quebec, Moran was the star. He stopped numberless shots that under ordinary conditions would have scored. Moreover he kept his temper admirably and in all made a splendid showing. He is a decided acquisition to the team
Selected Quotes (Sources: Ottawa Citizen, Ottawa Journal, Montreal Gazette, Montreal Star, Quebec Chronicle, Montreal Herald)
“No men on either team, however, played more brilliantly than the two goalers. Moran in particular distinguishing himself”
“Moran in Quebec’s goal did some most phenomenal stopping and the game was mostly won by him and Quebec’s defence”
“Moran, the goalkeeper of the easterners, was invincible, and stopped shot after shot in rapid succession.”
“Moran in the poles was a tower of strength, stopping shots that seemed almost impossible”
Moran, the Quebec goal tender, Holliday, the point man, and Hod. Stewart, who was on the forward line, played a game in which offences against the rules was a leading part. Moran did a lot of slashing with his stick and had to be ruled off several times- a thing that is not usually the case with goal tends”
“Moran, as usual, put up a star game, and he is largely responsible for the Vics’ defeat”
“For Quebec, Moran was the star. He stopped numberless shots that under ordinary conditions would have scored. Moreover he kept his temper admirably and in all made a splendid showing. He is a decided acquisition to the team
1903: with Quebec HC, CAHL
Context: Quebec HC went 3-4, second to last in a 5 team league. Like 1902, I would argue that the CAHL was the best team in the world at this point, with the MHA, MNHA, OHA, and WPHL being worth mentioning.
Selected Quotes (Sources: Ottawa Citizen, Ottawa Journal, Montreal Gazette, Montreal Star, Quebec Chronicle, Montreal Herald)
“But their weak point was in the defence, although Moran, in goals, stopped a large number of dangerous shots, but could not be expected to do all the work alone”
“... and the one reason for the score not being larger than it was, was on account of Moran’s great stopping”
“Moran, who is now the captain of the team and still plays the position in goals, stopped some hard looking shots”
“They have a star goal man in Moran“
“Moran the Quebec goal man deserves credit for several brilliant plays. He stopped a great many shots at close quarters which would have run up the score very much higher”
“The Quebec, with the exception of Moran, the goalkeeper, were outclassed. Their point and cover point were not able to cope and with the rushes of the Gilmours, McGee and Westwick, and Moran was afforded but little protection. He was the magnet for swift shots dozens of times, but he cleared the nets coolly and deftly, and though the puck went by him ten times, the wonder was that the Ottawa score was not double what it was”
“Moran, in the nets, also played his usual game, stopping time and again shots which looked like sure games
“... it was the excellent work of Moran in the poles that saved Quebec from having more tallies against them. The Quebec goaler proved himself to be in the top notchers and the Vic forwards gave him plenty of work to do”
“Moran in goals was, however, exceptionally brilliant, and his stops were a great feature of the match”
“Capt. Moran in goals was simply superb, and excited the genuine admiration of friends and opponents alike. His generalship was a feature of the match and his excellent judgment not only in the nets but in handling his team deserve the highest probation.”
“There was one thing alone which kept the Shamrocks from being the victors, the Quebec defence, especially the phenomenal play made by goalkeeper Moran”
Selected Quotes (Sources: Ottawa Citizen, Ottawa Journal, Montreal Gazette, Montreal Star, Quebec Chronicle, Montreal Herald)
“But their weak point was in the defence, although Moran, in goals, stopped a large number of dangerous shots, but could not be expected to do all the work alone”
“... and the one reason for the score not being larger than it was, was on account of Moran’s great stopping”
“Moran, who is now the captain of the team and still plays the position in goals, stopped some hard looking shots”
“They have a star goal man in Moran“
“Moran the Quebec goal man deserves credit for several brilliant plays. He stopped a great many shots at close quarters which would have run up the score very much higher”
“The Quebec, with the exception of Moran, the goalkeeper, were outclassed. Their point and cover point were not able to cope and with the rushes of the Gilmours, McGee and Westwick, and Moran was afforded but little protection. He was the magnet for swift shots dozens of times, but he cleared the nets coolly and deftly, and though the puck went by him ten times, the wonder was that the Ottawa score was not double what it was”
“Moran, in the nets, also played his usual game, stopping time and again shots which looked like sure games
“... it was the excellent work of Moran in the poles that saved Quebec from having more tallies against them. The Quebec goaler proved himself to be in the top notchers and the Vic forwards gave him plenty of work to do”
“Moran in goals was, however, exceptionally brilliant, and his stops were a great feature of the match”
“Capt. Moran in goals was simply superb, and excited the genuine admiration of friends and opponents alike. His generalship was a feature of the match and his excellent judgment not only in the nets but in handling his team deserve the highest probation.”
“There was one thing alone which kept the Shamrocks from being the victors, the Quebec defence, especially the phenomenal play made by goalkeeper Moran”
1904: with Quebec HC, CAHL
Context: Quebec HC won the CAHL this year with a 5-1 record. However, Ottawa HC withdrew after just 4 games (having gone 4-0), taking the Cup with them. This year I am a lot less confident in saying the CAHL was the best league; the Wanderers took most of the top talent from Montreal HC (who’d never really recover) to the upstart FAHL, and then more talent left when Ottawa HC left. The CAHL is definitely in the conversation for best league, but I think there are a couple other leagues you could make a claim for, depending on how much value you place on having the top tier talent or overall top-to-bottom depth of talent. Other notable leagues were the aforementioned FAHL, the OHA (though weakened by Cornwall HC and Brockville going to the FAHL), the MHA, the MNHA, and the WPHL.
Selected Quotes (Sources: Ottawa Citizen, Ottawa Journal, Montreal Gazette, Montreal Star, Quebec Chronicle, Montreal Herald)
“At time they poured in shots on Quebecs goal which looked like sure games, but Moran did some wonderful stopping, and incidentally he was principally responsible for Quebecs victory”
“Moran was in good form and blocked away volleys of stiff ones that managed to elude the watchful outposts, and his really wonderful work evoked generous applause on many occasions”
“Moran was too much for them. He put up a magnificent defence, and made some marvellous stops”
“Moran proved himself a veritable stone wall”
“Both goal-keepers - Kenny for the Shamrocks and Moran for Quebec - had plenty of work to do, and did it well, particularly the latter, who played in splendid form”
“Moran in goal was really wonderful. Time and again he stopped what seemed impossible shots, and not only stopped the shots, but stopped those terrible rushes for which the Victoria players are noted”
“Had it not been for the exceptionally clever work of GIroux, goalkeeper of the Marlboros, the score would have been doubled. He stopped shots that seemed certain scores for the Ottawas, and put himself, so far as the Ottawa public was concerned, with Hutton of the Ottawas and Moran of Quebec”
“P.J. Moran has played goal for the Quebec Lacrosse Club, the old Dominion Hockey Club, and the Crescent Hockey Club. He succeeded in stopping in the goals of the Quebec Club and is regarded as the best goal keeper of the day in Canada”
Selected Quotes (Sources: Ottawa Citizen, Ottawa Journal, Montreal Gazette, Montreal Star, Quebec Chronicle, Montreal Herald)
“At time they poured in shots on Quebecs goal which looked like sure games, but Moran did some wonderful stopping, and incidentally he was principally responsible for Quebecs victory”
“Moran was in good form and blocked away volleys of stiff ones that managed to elude the watchful outposts, and his really wonderful work evoked generous applause on many occasions”
“Moran was too much for them. He put up a magnificent defence, and made some marvellous stops”
“Moran proved himself a veritable stone wall”
“Both goal-keepers - Kenny for the Shamrocks and Moran for Quebec - had plenty of work to do, and did it well, particularly the latter, who played in splendid form”
“Moran in goal was really wonderful. Time and again he stopped what seemed impossible shots, and not only stopped the shots, but stopped those terrible rushes for which the Victoria players are noted”
“Had it not been for the exceptionally clever work of GIroux, goalkeeper of the Marlboros, the score would have been doubled. He stopped shots that seemed certain scores for the Ottawas, and put himself, so far as the Ottawa public was concerned, with Hutton of the Ottawas and Moran of Quebec”
“P.J. Moran has played goal for the Quebec Lacrosse Club, the old Dominion Hockey Club, and the Crescent Hockey Club. He succeeded in stopping in the goals of the Quebec Club and is regarded as the best goal keeper of the day in Canada”
1905: with Quebec HC, CAHL
Context: Quebec finished 8-2, good for second place in a six-team CAHL. Like 1904, I don’t know if any league has an ironclad case for best in the world, but the CAHL is in the conversation. The FAHL, IPHL, MHA, and maaaybe OHA are the other leagues in the conversation at this point, the MNHA having been absorbed into the MHA and the WPHL basically forming into the IPHL.
Selected Quotes (Sources: Ottawa Citizen, Ottawa Journal, Montreal Gazette, Montreal Star, Quebec Chronicle)
“Jordan played the most brilliant game of the forward line, while Moran, in goal, and Hogan at cover were the particular stars of the team”
“The story of the game is best told when it is said that Paddy Moran distinguished himself in Saturday night’s contest”
“Quebec was fortunate inasmuch as Moran was at his best, and he nabbed half a dozen stingers in the second half that seemed certain scores”
“Moran, as usual, showed himself a king of goal minders”
“It was regrettable that Moran was the central figure in the incident, as Paddy never showed a clearer claim to the title of premier goal-minder than he did Saturday night. His work was phenomenal throughout and he ranked as individually the most prominent man on the ice. In condemning his slashing of Gilbert, it must be remembered that the Vic line is the most aggressive in the game”
“Moran in goals was the same cool man with the eagle eye as of yore. Some of his stops were very spectacular and woke up the crowd repeatedly.”
“Mr. Moran, the goal-tend for Quebec, is about sa good as they are manufactured”
“Paddy Moran, he of the sunny smile and padded chest, was as usual in front of the nets for the Quebecs. He is without a peer in this position. When Moran couldn’t stop the puck with his stick, he stuck out his chest. Once he put his face in front of a shot from Pete Brennan. The rubber struck him on the chin and glided off. Moran smiled”
“But the onslaught was so persistent and so fierce that the Montreal forwards succeeded in breaking down this defence repeatedly, and sent in shot after shot to goal, only to be foiled in their splendid attempts by the famous goalkeeper Teddy Moran, who was ever in the right place in the right time, and what shots he did not stop with his stick, his legs, hands, and body, he succeeded in blocking with his chest. It was a wonderful exhibition of goalkeeping, and Quebec’s salvation”
“Moran’s sensational stops were worth seeing, especially the one where he slid out to meet the puck like a baseball player to a base”
“Of the Quebecs, Paddy Moran was easily the most conspicuous. He made some marvellous stops and substantiated the claim that he is the best goalkeeper in Eastern Canada”
“Paddy Moran as usual proved himself a veritable stonewall for Quebec”
Selected Quotes (Sources: Ottawa Citizen, Ottawa Journal, Montreal Gazette, Montreal Star, Quebec Chronicle)
“Jordan played the most brilliant game of the forward line, while Moran, in goal, and Hogan at cover were the particular stars of the team”
“The story of the game is best told when it is said that Paddy Moran distinguished himself in Saturday night’s contest”
“Quebec was fortunate inasmuch as Moran was at his best, and he nabbed half a dozen stingers in the second half that seemed certain scores”
“Moran, as usual, showed himself a king of goal minders”
“It was regrettable that Moran was the central figure in the incident, as Paddy never showed a clearer claim to the title of premier goal-minder than he did Saturday night. His work was phenomenal throughout and he ranked as individually the most prominent man on the ice. In condemning his slashing of Gilbert, it must be remembered that the Vic line is the most aggressive in the game”
“Moran in goals was the same cool man with the eagle eye as of yore. Some of his stops were very spectacular and woke up the crowd repeatedly.”
“Mr. Moran, the goal-tend for Quebec, is about sa good as they are manufactured”
“Paddy Moran, he of the sunny smile and padded chest, was as usual in front of the nets for the Quebecs. He is without a peer in this position. When Moran couldn’t stop the puck with his stick, he stuck out his chest. Once he put his face in front of a shot from Pete Brennan. The rubber struck him on the chin and glided off. Moran smiled”
“But the onslaught was so persistent and so fierce that the Montreal forwards succeeded in breaking down this defence repeatedly, and sent in shot after shot to goal, only to be foiled in their splendid attempts by the famous goalkeeper Teddy Moran, who was ever in the right place in the right time, and what shots he did not stop with his stick, his legs, hands, and body, he succeeded in blocking with his chest. It was a wonderful exhibition of goalkeeping, and Quebec’s salvation”
“Moran’s sensational stops were worth seeing, especially the one where he slid out to meet the puck like a baseball player to a base”
“Of the Quebecs, Paddy Moran was easily the most conspicuous. He made some marvellous stops and substantiated the claim that he is the best goalkeeper in Eastern Canada”
“Paddy Moran as usual proved himself a veritable stonewall for Quebec”
1906: with Quebec HC, ECAHA
Context: Quebec HC went 3-7, tied for fourth in a 6 team league. Talent consolidated a little, as Ottawa HC and the Montreal Wanderers left the FAHL, joining the CAHL teams to form the ECAHA. Three leagues really stand out- the ECAHA, the MHA, and the IPHL. The ECAHA is probably the best of the bunch, but it’s close.
Selected Quotes (Sources: Ottawa Citizen, Ottawa Journal, Montreal Gazette, Montreal Star, Quebec Chronicle)
“Moran showed his class by some great stops from every angle of the ice”
“Of the seven Bowie was once more the star performer. In the first half, between his own hard luck and Moran’s sensational topping, he failed to connect with the nets, with no one to get by the goaler, were foiled by Moran rushing out and blocking his shot”
“Few games pass in which Moran is goaltend and Bowie forward without a mix-up of some sort between the two. Moran wants no one to bother him in the nets, and Bowie accepts all chances and goes in to score when the opportunity offers”
“Moran’s work between the posts for the visitors went far towards preventing the VIctoria forward line from running up an almost uncountable tally during the first ten minutes of play. He is quick as lightning and handles himself with the agility of a cat”
“He [Moran] was always in the way, and played one of the most remarkable goal-keeper games witnessed in Montreal for a long time”
“Mr. Pat Moran is an excitable young person but nevertheless he is one of the neatest goal tends in the business”
“...Moran has often done better than he did on Saturday”
“The rusky Quebec goal tend [Moran] had to stop pucks with every bit of his anatomy, and on three occasion had to resort to tricks to save his nets. Once he carried out the rubber folded in his arms, once a timely fall was advantageous, and on the third occasion a quick poke into the midst of a group of struggling players proved useful”
“Moran, as in the Wanderer game, was off color”
“Produce the goal keep that can best the Hon. Pat. Moran of Quebec”
“Moran had an off night, and was beaten out by three easy ones. Moran’s best performances this year have been away from home”
“Moran was in form equal to his other appearances at the arena this year, and that is at the best in the goalkeeper’s line”
“Moran was again disappointing in goals, and wound up a rather disastrous season on local ice by allowing most of the shots of the first half to go by him. His work improved in the second period, but he was evidently bothered by the poor lighting of the Quebec rink.”
“Moran played his usual star game in goals, and again proved his claim to being one of the best in the business”
“Moran, in goal, has yet to be improved on. He stoped the puck last night with hands, feet, stick and body, and would have caught it in his teeth if the referee would have allowed him”
Selected Quotes (Sources: Ottawa Citizen, Ottawa Journal, Montreal Gazette, Montreal Star, Quebec Chronicle)
“Moran showed his class by some great stops from every angle of the ice”
“Of the seven Bowie was once more the star performer. In the first half, between his own hard luck and Moran’s sensational topping, he failed to connect with the nets, with no one to get by the goaler, were foiled by Moran rushing out and blocking his shot”
“Few games pass in which Moran is goaltend and Bowie forward without a mix-up of some sort between the two. Moran wants no one to bother him in the nets, and Bowie accepts all chances and goes in to score when the opportunity offers”
“Moran’s work between the posts for the visitors went far towards preventing the VIctoria forward line from running up an almost uncountable tally during the first ten minutes of play. He is quick as lightning and handles himself with the agility of a cat”
“He [Moran] was always in the way, and played one of the most remarkable goal-keeper games witnessed in Montreal for a long time”
“Mr. Pat Moran is an excitable young person but nevertheless he is one of the neatest goal tends in the business”
“...Moran has often done better than he did on Saturday”
“The rusky Quebec goal tend [Moran] had to stop pucks with every bit of his anatomy, and on three occasion had to resort to tricks to save his nets. Once he carried out the rubber folded in his arms, once a timely fall was advantageous, and on the third occasion a quick poke into the midst of a group of struggling players proved useful”
“Moran, as in the Wanderer game, was off color”
“Produce the goal keep that can best the Hon. Pat. Moran of Quebec”
“Moran had an off night, and was beaten out by three easy ones. Moran’s best performances this year have been away from home”
“Moran was in form equal to his other appearances at the arena this year, and that is at the best in the goalkeeper’s line”
“Moran was again disappointing in goals, and wound up a rather disastrous season on local ice by allowing most of the shots of the first half to go by him. His work improved in the second period, but he was evidently bothered by the poor lighting of the Quebec rink.”
“Moran played his usual star game in goals, and again proved his claim to being one of the best in the business”
“Moran, in goal, has yet to be improved on. He stoped the puck last night with hands, feet, stick and body, and would have caught it in his teeth if the referee would have allowed him”
1907: with Quebec HC, ECAHA
Context: Quebec HC finished 2-8, tied for last in a six-team league. Like 1906, I think there are three main leagues: the ECAHA, the MPHL (the successor to the MHA), and the IPHL. This time, however, I feel comfortable(is) saying the ECAHA was the best of the bunch.
Selected Quotes (Sources: Ottawa Citizen, Ottawa Journal, Montreal Gazette, Montreal Star, Quebec Chronicle)
“The defence outside of Moran in goal is the weak spot on the team. Moran is a dandy and made some beautiful stops”
“Paddy Moran, their goalkeeper, again proved himself as good as gold, getting applause, even from the warmest Ottawa supporters”
“Moran might make a good baseball player. His catching was swell”
“Moran in Quebec’s goal gave an exhibition which was little if anything behind that of Lesueur,”
“Moran, in the Quebec flags, was a wonder”
“Moran’s work in goals was a mixture of good and bad”
“... Moran in goals, who had shot after shot rained in upon him and did some excellent work”
“Moran, in Quebec goal, made himself unpopular among Shamrock supporters by the tactics used at times when his goal was menaced, of rushing out and charging the advancing Shamrock”
“Moran, in the Quebec flags was a wonder”
“Moran had an exceedingly busy night of it, and he was forced to bring forward all kinds of tricks of which he is a past master in saving the situation at critical points”
Selected Quotes (Sources: Ottawa Citizen, Ottawa Journal, Montreal Gazette, Montreal Star, Quebec Chronicle)
“The defence outside of Moran in goal is the weak spot on the team. Moran is a dandy and made some beautiful stops”
“Paddy Moran, their goalkeeper, again proved himself as good as gold, getting applause, even from the warmest Ottawa supporters”
“Moran might make a good baseball player. His catching was swell”
“Moran in Quebec’s goal gave an exhibition which was little if anything behind that of Lesueur,”
“Moran, in the Quebec flags, was a wonder”
“Moran’s work in goals was a mixture of good and bad”
“... Moran in goals, who had shot after shot rained in upon him and did some excellent work”
“Moran, in Quebec goal, made himself unpopular among Shamrock supporters by the tactics used at times when his goal was menaced, of rushing out and charging the advancing Shamrock”
“Moran, in the Quebec flags was a wonder”
“Moran had an exceedingly busy night of it, and he was forced to bring forward all kinds of tricks of which he is a past master in saving the situation at critical points”
1908: with Quebec HC, ECAHA
Context: Quebec HC went 5-5 and finished in a tie for third in a six-team league. The IPHL folded, and a lot of the MPHL talent went East to the ECAHA, so I feel pretty comfortable in saying the ECAHA was the top league. The MPHL and OPHL are probably the best of the rest, but a bit behind.
Selected Quotes (Sources: Ottawa Citizen, Ottawa Journal, Montreal Gazette, Montreal Star, Quebec Chronicle)
“Moran in the nests for Quebec put up a wonderful game and stopped many hard drives that looked good to score. The Ottawas’ defeat was due in no small measure to his efforts”
“Paddy Moran, who has often been picked as the most useful goalkeeper in Eastern Canada, was in the nets for Quebec”
“Moran, the Quebec goal tend, is the individual whom Ottawa may thank more than any other for their defeat. It is safe to say that his exhibition of last evening was little short of marvellous, and by ar the greatest of his career”
“Moran once more proved himself a peerless goal tend”
“Scoring a dozen games against the Quebec defence, particularly Paddy Moran, who is almost impregnable against a shot at fair range, is a big feet and the Vics only rolled up a large score by taking the rubber disc right to the mouth of the cage”
“Pat Moran clinched his claim to the title ‘King of Goalkeeps’”
“Mr. P. Moran, Quebec’s sturdy goalkeeper, was there with the goods, according to his time-worn custom”
“If no other part of his anatomy happens to be available during a crisis, Mr. Moran does not hesitate to stop the puck with his eyebrows”
“Every few minutes the puck would crash into the boards on the right side and Alf. Smith would carry it down or Tom Phillips swinging from side to side with that broad, sweeping stride would fling himself in on Moran. And Moran kept stopping them wonderfully”
“Of the Ancient Capital team, Paddy Moran, the goal-keeper, was the top-liner. Moran’s work in the nets characterized him as the best visiting net-guardian seen here this season. He was cool, even in the most exciting moments and the stops which he pulled off with his gloves, chest, pads and stick were nothing short of marvelous”
“Individually, by far the cleverest man of the fourteen was ‘Paddy’ Moran, the man before the twine for Quebec. The exhibition of goal keeping which he gave has never been surpassed or equalled anywhere else”
“While Quebec won, Shamrocks as a matter of fact seemed to be having the better of the play but for one thing, Moran, who was at the top of his form and gave a dazzling display of goal tending”
“Pat Moran was in his full glory, and the big fellow stopped them at such a rate that it looked as if many of them were blocked with his eyes shut, they came so fast and accurate”
“Moran had less to do than Hern and did not star as he did Thursday, but the defeat was not to be laid at his door, as he was beaten out only when saves were almost impossible.”
“It was entirely thanks to Paddy Moran in the first part of the match that Montreal did not score oftener”
“P. Moran was among those present, and as usual, he made a noise like a stone wall in front of the nets”
“Moran not only has an eye like an eagle, but he has also a nerve like a lion”
“And behind them was the renowned Paddy Moran, whose works was of the usual gilt-edged variety that was to be expected of him”
“For Quebec, Moran gave an exceptional exhibition of goal-keeping. He was steady and sure, and he saved many a possible score”
“A mighty big factor in the victory was undoubtedly the work of the redoubtable Paddy Moran in the nets. He was in great form, and though the Vic forwards kept him very busy at times, he proved himself fully equal to the emergency in the vast majority of cases. He was forced to introduce many of his old-time wrinkles, and his rush with the puck down the ice, on one occasion, in order to clear, tickled the crowd immensely”
Selected Quotes (Sources: Ottawa Citizen, Ottawa Journal, Montreal Gazette, Montreal Star, Quebec Chronicle)
“Moran in the nests for Quebec put up a wonderful game and stopped many hard drives that looked good to score. The Ottawas’ defeat was due in no small measure to his efforts”
“Paddy Moran, who has often been picked as the most useful goalkeeper in Eastern Canada, was in the nets for Quebec”
“Moran, the Quebec goal tend, is the individual whom Ottawa may thank more than any other for their defeat. It is safe to say that his exhibition of last evening was little short of marvellous, and by ar the greatest of his career”
“Moran once more proved himself a peerless goal tend”
“Scoring a dozen games against the Quebec defence, particularly Paddy Moran, who is almost impregnable against a shot at fair range, is a big feet and the Vics only rolled up a large score by taking the rubber disc right to the mouth of the cage”
“Pat Moran clinched his claim to the title ‘King of Goalkeeps’”
“Mr. P. Moran, Quebec’s sturdy goalkeeper, was there with the goods, according to his time-worn custom”
“If no other part of his anatomy happens to be available during a crisis, Mr. Moran does not hesitate to stop the puck with his eyebrows”
“Every few minutes the puck would crash into the boards on the right side and Alf. Smith would carry it down or Tom Phillips swinging from side to side with that broad, sweeping stride would fling himself in on Moran. And Moran kept stopping them wonderfully”
“Of the Ancient Capital team, Paddy Moran, the goal-keeper, was the top-liner. Moran’s work in the nets characterized him as the best visiting net-guardian seen here this season. He was cool, even in the most exciting moments and the stops which he pulled off with his gloves, chest, pads and stick were nothing short of marvelous”
“Individually, by far the cleverest man of the fourteen was ‘Paddy’ Moran, the man before the twine for Quebec. The exhibition of goal keeping which he gave has never been surpassed or equalled anywhere else”
“While Quebec won, Shamrocks as a matter of fact seemed to be having the better of the play but for one thing, Moran, who was at the top of his form and gave a dazzling display of goal tending”
“Pat Moran was in his full glory, and the big fellow stopped them at such a rate that it looked as if many of them were blocked with his eyes shut, they came so fast and accurate”
“Moran had less to do than Hern and did not star as he did Thursday, but the defeat was not to be laid at his door, as he was beaten out only when saves were almost impossible.”
“It was entirely thanks to Paddy Moran in the first part of the match that Montreal did not score oftener”
“P. Moran was among those present, and as usual, he made a noise like a stone wall in front of the nets”
“Moran not only has an eye like an eagle, but he has also a nerve like a lion”
“And behind them was the renowned Paddy Moran, whose works was of the usual gilt-edged variety that was to be expected of him”
“For Quebec, Moran gave an exceptional exhibition of goal-keeping. He was steady and sure, and he saved many a possible score”
“A mighty big factor in the victory was undoubtedly the work of the redoubtable Paddy Moran in the nets. He was in great form, and though the Vic forwards kept him very busy at times, he proved himself fully equal to the emergency in the vast majority of cases. He was forced to introduce many of his old-time wrinkles, and his rush with the puck down the ice, on one occasion, in order to clear, tickled the crowd immensely”
1909: with Quebec HC, ECHA
Context: Quebec HC finished 3-9, second to last in a four team ECHA (the league finally dropped “Amateur” from the name). The ECAHA is the best league around in my opinion, although there are some pockets of talent in the MPHL, AAHA, FAHL, and TPHL.
Selected Quotes (Sources: Ottawa Citizen, Ottawa Journal, Montreal Gazette, Montreal Star, Quebec Chronicle)
“Paddy Moran, the veteran goal-keeper of the Quebec team gave what was undoubtedly the greatest performance in the flags ever seen here. Moran had his eye strictly on the rubber throughout and had it not been for his sterling work, the score would have been twice as large. Moran stopped the puck with his hands, feet and body in a remarkable manner. As a goalkeeper Moran is in a class by himself. Last year he was great; this winter he is still greater”
“The Ottawas scored several goals that were not allowed as their opponents’ goal nets had been knocked out of position by Moran falling. He worked this trick several times when the locals looked dangerous”
“Moran was the star on Quebec’s team, his work in goal being splendid”
“In Quebec’s surprising showing, a big factor was the wonderful work of their goal-keeper, Paddy Moran, who in his long career probably never did better work than against Wanderers Saturday night. Moran stopped them from all angles, and his brilliant work put heart into the players in front of him and sent them after Wanderers in a style that threatened to take the champions off their feet”
“Moran was the real star of the team”
“P. Moran is the King of Goalkeepers”
“It is horrible to contemplate what the score might have been had not the versatile Mr. Moran been in goals to shoo the puck away”
“A vast deal of the credit for the good showing of Quebec goes to Paddy Moran”
“Shots of all sorts came his [Moran’s] way- hard ones, easy ones, low ones, and high ones, but they all looked alike to Patrick”
“Lesueur was not called upon to block as many shots as Moran, but he was always on the job when needed. Lesueur is a former Quebec player and tonight he had it on Moran in every way”
“Paddy Moran, whose work in goal is generally a feature of every match, seemed to have lost his eagle eye for once, and only recovered it as the match progressed to its finish”
“Had it not been for the splendid work of Moran in goals, the score would have been even higher”
“only the stellar work of Paddy Moran in the Quebec nets preventing a much larger tally for Ottawa”
“Paddy Moran distinguished himself with his usual sensational stops”
“Moran is the most sensational goal-keeper in the game. He was warned several times for going down on his knees to block the disc”
“ Moran as usual made some wonderful stops and was given a great reception by the crowd”
“... but for the apparently superhuman efforts of Paddy Moran there might have been many more”
“Lesueur gave a remarkable exhibition in goals and his work was little short of the display put up by Paddy Moran”
“The irrepressible Paddy Moran, in goals, gave an exhibition that was worth the whole price of admission to witness. Paddy has acquired a well-deserved reputation for performing sensational stunts, and last evening he treated the crowd to a number that were well-worth seeing, and he saved the situation on several occasions by his quick-wit in realizing the situation”
“From almost at the outset the Shamrocks outplayed the visitors and it was largely the work of goalkeeper Moran, who made many spectacular stops, that kept them in the running so long”
“...if there was one player among the lot that deserved special mention that player was certainly Percy LeSueur, whose work was little short of wonderful. He saved some of the most difficult assaults made upon his goals, and the finesse which he displayed reminded the great crowd which witnessed the match of his former fellow-citizen and friend, Paddy Moran, of Quebec”
“The bright particular star of the night was, as often before, the redoubtable ‘Paddy’ Moran in the back division. His excellent work saved the situation time and oft and he turned aside and brought aside many a warm one which would have been netted”
Percy LeSueuer, one of the Ancient Capital’s productions, gave a splendid exhibition of goal tending, and showed also that he has not been loath to learn some of the tricks taught by that master of the goal-tender’s cage, our own invincible Paddy Moran”
“It can, however, be said without fear that Paddy Moran and Joe Malone shared premier honors in the game. The veteran goal-keeper of Quebec was called upon to exercise all his wits to ward off many a perplexing situation and that he did so with his usual coolness and despatch no one will deny. As a matter of fact Paddy Moran has seldom put up a more sensational or more successful game than he did on Saturday night”
Selected Quotes (Sources: Ottawa Citizen, Ottawa Journal, Montreal Gazette, Montreal Star, Quebec Chronicle)
“Paddy Moran, the veteran goal-keeper of the Quebec team gave what was undoubtedly the greatest performance in the flags ever seen here. Moran had his eye strictly on the rubber throughout and had it not been for his sterling work, the score would have been twice as large. Moran stopped the puck with his hands, feet and body in a remarkable manner. As a goalkeeper Moran is in a class by himself. Last year he was great; this winter he is still greater”
“The Ottawas scored several goals that were not allowed as their opponents’ goal nets had been knocked out of position by Moran falling. He worked this trick several times when the locals looked dangerous”
“Moran was the star on Quebec’s team, his work in goal being splendid”
“In Quebec’s surprising showing, a big factor was the wonderful work of their goal-keeper, Paddy Moran, who in his long career probably never did better work than against Wanderers Saturday night. Moran stopped them from all angles, and his brilliant work put heart into the players in front of him and sent them after Wanderers in a style that threatened to take the champions off their feet”
“Moran was the real star of the team”
“P. Moran is the King of Goalkeepers”
“It is horrible to contemplate what the score might have been had not the versatile Mr. Moran been in goals to shoo the puck away”
“A vast deal of the credit for the good showing of Quebec goes to Paddy Moran”
“Shots of all sorts came his [Moran’s] way- hard ones, easy ones, low ones, and high ones, but they all looked alike to Patrick”
“Lesueur was not called upon to block as many shots as Moran, but he was always on the job when needed. Lesueur is a former Quebec player and tonight he had it on Moran in every way”
“Paddy Moran, whose work in goal is generally a feature of every match, seemed to have lost his eagle eye for once, and only recovered it as the match progressed to its finish”
“Had it not been for the splendid work of Moran in goals, the score would have been even higher”
“only the stellar work of Paddy Moran in the Quebec nets preventing a much larger tally for Ottawa”
“Paddy Moran distinguished himself with his usual sensational stops”
“Moran is the most sensational goal-keeper in the game. He was warned several times for going down on his knees to block the disc”
“ Moran as usual made some wonderful stops and was given a great reception by the crowd”
“... but for the apparently superhuman efforts of Paddy Moran there might have been many more”
“Lesueur gave a remarkable exhibition in goals and his work was little short of the display put up by Paddy Moran”
“The irrepressible Paddy Moran, in goals, gave an exhibition that was worth the whole price of admission to witness. Paddy has acquired a well-deserved reputation for performing sensational stunts, and last evening he treated the crowd to a number that were well-worth seeing, and he saved the situation on several occasions by his quick-wit in realizing the situation”
“From almost at the outset the Shamrocks outplayed the visitors and it was largely the work of goalkeeper Moran, who made many spectacular stops, that kept them in the running so long”
“...if there was one player among the lot that deserved special mention that player was certainly Percy LeSueur, whose work was little short of wonderful. He saved some of the most difficult assaults made upon his goals, and the finesse which he displayed reminded the great crowd which witnessed the match of his former fellow-citizen and friend, Paddy Moran, of Quebec”
“The bright particular star of the night was, as often before, the redoubtable ‘Paddy’ Moran in the back division. His excellent work saved the situation time and oft and he turned aside and brought aside many a warm one which would have been netted”
Percy LeSueuer, one of the Ancient Capital’s productions, gave a splendid exhibition of goal tending, and showed also that he has not been loath to learn some of the tricks taught by that master of the goal-tender’s cage, our own invincible Paddy Moran”
“It can, however, be said without fear that Paddy Moran and Joe Malone shared premier honors in the game. The veteran goal-keeper of Quebec was called upon to exercise all his wits to ward off many a perplexing situation and that he did so with his usual coolness and despatch no one will deny. As a matter of fact Paddy Moran has seldom put up a more sensational or more successful game than he did on Saturday night”
All Star Teams, Notes from Contemporaries, and Interesting Notes
I don’t claim to have all the all-star teams, but here are the relevant teams I have found from the seasons that Moran was playing and eligible for, as well as interesting notes/commentary I have come across:
1903: Billy Nicholson was the pick on an all-Canada team from the Brantford Courier (Gazette, 20 March 1903)
1904: “The Quebec Hockey club champions of the C.A.H.L. may lose the services of Paddy Moran, the star goaler, this winter… Consequently, Paddy Moran has been approached, and the offer is very tempting. One hundred dollars per month is the salary dangled before the clever goal-tend. This amount is to be paid for playing the game only, and Paddy would be given a position in one of the big mines, the plants of which are run by electricity. As is known, Mr. Moran is an electrician, and his salary from this source would be in addition to his hockey money. It must be admitted that the inducement is a hard one to resist, and if any goal keeper is worth the figure, he is Paddy Moran. There may be as good men between the poles as Moran, but they are not in sight” ” (Winnipeg Tribune, 17 October 1904)
1905: An unnamed ‘Montreal Man’ listed an all-star team, with Moran in goal. The write-up- “For the thankless position of goalkeeper we have elected Mr. Moran, of Quebec, with his big shin-pads. These have stopped many a goal, but Moran is not particular whether he uses them or not. He frequently projects his face in the way of the puck, anything to stop it.” (Originally from the Toronto News, as published in the Gazette, 17 February 1905)
1905: The famous fan-voted all-star team. Moran “was almost the unanimous choice” (Montreal Star, 4 March 1905)
1906: The only team I think Moran would have been eligible for was the Winnipeg Free Press editor’s “selection of a world’s champion hockey team… showing no favoritism to either East or West”. Dutchy Morrison was the pick at goal.
1907: “Paddy Moran, he of the eagle-eye and world-wide reputation, will occupy his old position before the nets for Quebec. Moran, undoubtedly, has few equals in the business, and his work itself should be well worth seeing” (Ottawa Citizen, 4 January 1907)
1907: A “well-known Montreal newspaper man” selected LeSueur for his all star team, and an All-Canadian Hockey Team originally published by the Ottawa Free Press selected LeSueur as well.
1908: A fan-selected First and Second team all star list was selected at the half-time of one of the games. Paddy Moran was on the first team; “Paddy Moran, of Quebec, has a mortage on the net position. He is known as an aggressive goalkeeper, somewhat of a misnomer for a man in that position. Very few forwards will venture close to Moran, and it is only at the most hand-to-hand quarters he can be scored upon. Billy Nicholson, of Shamrocks, is the nearest approach to Moran”
1908: The Ottawa hockey team is after Paddy Moran, of Quebec, for goal” (Moncton Transcript, 2 October 1908)
1908: “The Ottawa club, by the way, is hurting to get together a team. Negotiations have practically been completed for the signing of Jack Winchester of Toronto to play goal. Winchester played last year with Winnipeg Maple Leafs and is considered quite up to the standard of Paddy Moran. Winchester was reported signed by Wanderers, but Ottawa got there first.” (The Province, 20 November 1908 Page 13)
1909: “Paddy Moran, of Quebec, stands out as the only goalkeeper banished during the season. Paddy was off three times, twice for a minute and once for three minutes” (Gazette, 13 March 1909)
1909: Harvey Pulford (an ex-teammate of LeSueur) selected LeSueur for his all-star team. I should note that 4 of the 7 players named were Ottawa players. The others were 2 Wanderers and Lester Patrick. I don’t know how much to weigh this one.
1909: “Lesueur was in his prime last winter and had no equal as a goal keeper, his work on the average being even better than that of Paddy Moran, the Quebec ‘phenom’” (Ottawa Citizen, 23 September 1909)
1909: “Percy Lesueur, former goal keeper of the Ottawa Stanley cup hockey team, is branching out in a new line. Lesueur who is now located at Haileybury, is getting out a book on hockey. It is already in the printer’s hands and the first copies will be on the street in a week or two. Lesueur’s book will contain illustrated articles by Al. Smith, Fred Taylor, Harvey Pulford, Marty Walsh, Russell Bowie and Paddy Moran on how their respective positions should be played, also the rules and history of the great winter game” (Ottawa Citizen, 28 September 1909)
1909: “Many people have often wondered why Paddy Moran, admitted to be the greatest hockey goalkeeper of the age, remained at Quebec so long. Year after year Quebec had a third class team, and year after year Moran was between the flags. For the past six seasons, in fact, Moran has been the greatest part of the Ancient Capital seven. Now he is with Art Ross’ All-Montreal team, drawing the fat salary of $2,000 for standing between the poles and letting the other teams shoot away at him”
1910: “If Quebec has ever produced anything upon which it can pride itself, it has been goal-tends in the hockey game. It is unnecessary to mention such stars as Frank Stocking and ‘Paddy’ Moran. Their well-earned fame is known from one end of the Dominion to the other” (Quebec Chronicle, 6 January 1910)
1910: “In Paddy Moran they have one who is supposed to be the greatest net custodian in the business” (Ottawa Citizen, 31 January 1910)
1910: “When Art Ross was signed by Haileybury, it is said that he received $4,000 for the eight weeks. Many laughed at the idea of paying such a sum for a hockey player, but when the circumstances are looked into, it will be seen that Haileybury was getting a large package of goods, for the money that they are paying out. Ross induced Paddy Moran to leave his comfortable diggings in Quebec, and hike for Montreal. He, however, signed a contract in which he agreed to pay Moran $2,000 for one season’s work” (Ottawa Journal, 9 February 1910)
1910: The Ottawa Free Press (notice how it is usually Ottawa papers giving LeSueur the all star nods?) provided an all-star team for the NHA. LeSueur got the nod in goal. 3 of the seven players were from Ottawa.
1911: “The Renfrew players also said that Bert Lindsay had played remarkable games at Quebec and Montreal. ‘Talk about Lesueur,’ cried Donald Smith, ‘Why even Paddy Moran took off his hat to Bert’” (Ottawa Citizen, 6 January 1911)
1911: Tommy Dunderdale picked an NHA all star team, LeSueur being his choice for goal. “On Dunderdale’s team would be found Percy Leseur guarding the nets. While the Ottawa goal tend has two great rivals in Riley Hern of the Wanderers and Paddy Moran of the Quebecs, Tommy’s choice undoubtedly will be a popular one” (Moncton Transcript, 13 March 1911). I’ll add that there are some odd selections, though perhaps that is my general ignorance of the 1911 league- Barney Holden at cover? Don Smith as one of the two selected centers?
1911: “Paddy Moran of Quebec, who is considered the best goaltender in the National Hockey League, will likely play goal for the Vancouver team. He has been offered a nice sum of money to come west and has just about made up his mind to accept” (The Province, 14 November 1911)
1911: “Paddy Moran, the Quebec goal tender, and one of the best ever to don pads, will soon be using a C.P.R. ticket” (Brantford Daily Expositor, 4 December 1911)
1912: “Paddy Moran is the ‘white hope’ of the Quebec outfit. He is the only good man that the Ancient Capital have been able to hang on to” (Calgary Herald, 4 January 1912)
1912: An article titled “Hugh Lehman One of the Greatest in Nets” from the Vancouver Daily World, 1 February 1912, published discussion about goalies from a fanning bee in Vancouver. As the title would suggest, Lehamn was mentioned, as was Paddy Moran ("Paddy Moran is perhaps the one best bet of the four and his wonderful record with the old Quebec team stamps him as the cleverest goal custodian of the East"), Percy LeSueur ("Percy Leseur is one of the greatest students of hockey. He is always trying to learn some new wrinkles and also always trying to teach others what he knows of the game"), Dutchy Morrison ("'Dutchy' Morrison made a great name for himself in O.H.A. hockey...He then game west and put Portage la Prairie on the hockey map. He was the most finished player that ever performed in that section"), and Whitey Merritt ("'Whitey' Merritt was the old Victoria goal tender... His work is still talked about by the old timers, who claim that the present generation has not seen his equal"). Riley Hern and Jack Winchester were noted as well ("Riley Hern and the late Jack Winchester must also be mentioned as great men between the nets").
1912: “‘I want to say just one word,’ said the man in the corner, ‘you make talk about your goalkeepers, but is there anyone who has anything on Paddy Moran, the veteran of the Quebec team. Goalers may come and goalers may go, but Paddy seems to go on forever. Quebec has produced a good many of them- not forgetting Percy LeSueur, of Ottawa- but Paddy is still my choice.’” (Quebec Chronicle, 6 February 1912)
1912: “Paddy Moran, the Quebec goal-tend is a native-born Quebec hockey player, and has been recognized as the best goal-tend playing the game” (Calgary Albertan, 18 March 1912)
1912: An article from the Victoria Daily Times (3 April) claims “"Paddy" Moran, the famous goaltender of the Stanley cup holders, and "Hughie" Lehman of the Westminster champions, are considered the best net-custodians in the game to-day, with the possible exception of "Percy" Leseur of the Ottawas”
1912: “Every time that a hockey goal tender is referred to there is sure to be some Easterner who will mention the name of Paddy Moran, the Quebec veteran, who is one of the greatest net guardians who ever stood between the poles… Working right, however, Moran is the equal of any net guardian that ever strapped on the pads. Short and broad, he presents a comical figure as he skates onto the ice. He is so big and pads himself to such an extent that he almost fills the poles during a game. He stops them every way, stick, feet, legs, hands and if necessary, he will interject his ace in the way of a flying hockey puck, regardless of the consequences. His ability to stop close in shots gives his team a great deal of confidence, and it was Paddy Moran, more than anyone else, who is directly responsible for Quebec’s victory in the national championship last winter” (Victoria Daily Times, 3 October 1912)
1912: “Manager ‘Petie’ Green of the Ottawas does not claim much for that club’s goal-minder. Hark to this from the Ottawa Citizen:- ‘Petie Green regards Percy Lesueur as the greatest of all goal-keepers. He has saved us a hundred times when a score would have meant the championship,’ said Green recently. ‘There’ll never be another Lesueur’...Y-e-s?- but where do Paddy Moran and Billy Hague fit. There are many who will TAKE ISSUE with this Lesueur dope. If you value your life, don’t repeat it in old ‘Kebec!’”(Evening Mail, 23 December 1912)
1913: “Billy Hague is a star in the meshes that’s sure. In landing him Socials bring to Halifax one of the top-notchers of the game, rated as only second to the great Paddy Moran, o the world’s champions” (Moncton Transcript, 2 January 1913)
1913: “‘Paddy’ Moran, than whom there is no more brilliant net guardian in hockey today” (Vancouver Daily World, 29 March 1913)
1913: “Paddy Moran, the Quebec goal tend, has lost nothing of his skill and, to judge by the games he has put up this year, he was never more reliable. Paddy is a native-born Quebecer and is recognized as the best goaler in the N.H.A. to-day” (Victoria Daily Times, 22 March 1913)
1913: Quoting the Montreal Herald- “Quebec is after Billy Hague, the star goaler of the Maritime Province last year, and it may be the champions seek a younger man than Paddy Moran to guard the nets. Hague played goal for Ottawa in 1906, when only eighteen years of age, and classes up with the best custodians in the country”. The Times-Transcript then commented- “If Quebec is successful in landing the Ottawa boy, it is the firm belief of many that ere the season finishes he will supplant Paddy Moran. Hague made his debut in pro. Hockey in 1906 and there is reason to believe that he would have been kept on only for the fact of the ‘hold’ that Percy LeSueur has on the Ottawa’s” (Times-Transcript, 22 November 1913)
1914: “Paddy Moran, who has quite a reputation as a net guardian in the hockey world…” (Toronto Star, 26 May 1914)
1915:”Moran again demonstrated that he is the king of all goal-keepers and on his season’s work there can be no doubt that Paddy has no superior in the nets in the game” (Quebec Chronicle, 25 February 1915)
1915: “Ottawa reports state Paddy Moran was the star. If anyone starts picking all-star teams in the N.H.A. on past season’s performance, the goaltend position belongs to Moran. Mr. Vezina is great, but Moran excelled even his own best performances of the best” (Quebec Chronicle, 4 March 1915)
1915: “The news that Paddy Moran has again signed up with Quebec will be welcomed by all hockey followers, not only in the city but over the circuit where he is a general favorite with the fans. Moran played some of the greatest hockey of his career last season and even the wonderful Vezina did not perform so consistently as Moran did. The Quebec club wouldn’t seem the same if Paddy’s familiar figure was not filling in space between the iron posts. As a well-known Montreal enthusiast remarked of the veteran goaltend, during a nerve-wracking game in which Quebec was striving desperately to hold a gone-goal lead on Montreal ice- ‘Moran seemed like a lion in a cage and the way he baffled all efforts of the opposing team to score seemed to take all the heart out of them, and if any man won the game for Quebec that night it was Moran’. But that is only one incident in Paddy’s long career and the men who have played for years in front of Moran can add their testimony to his prowess. Many a time the defence man has groaned with despair as one of the other side got through with but Paddy to beat only to have his spirits again revived by Moran’s brilliant save. Moran is no youngster but he seems to grow better with age and there is little room to doubt that Paddy will play the same reliable hockey this winter that he has always demonstrated” (Quebec Chronicle, 17 November 1915)
1916: “Most fans think Vezina of Canadiens the best goalkeeper in the N.H.A. If he is, Paddy Moran of Quebec is a mighty healthy rival” (Toronto Star, 3 January 1916)
1916: “But this season he [Vezina] has not one rival, but four. Lindsay, Clint Benedict, and the veterans Paddy Moran and Percy Lesuer have all pulled themselves up to a position at least equal to that of Vezina, and in the eyes o their most rabid supporters, at any rate, they are in some respects, superior” (Winnipeg Tribune, 18 March 1916)
1916: “Paddy Moran The veteran Quebec goaltender, who is generally conceded to be the greatest player in his position who has ever stopped a puck” (Victoria Daily Times, 2 November 1916)
1916: “From Quebec comes word that Paddy Moran, the veteran goalkeeper of the ancient capital’s hockey club, who has been playing senior hockey probably longer than any other man in the game to-day, is anxious to retire this season. If a deal in which Tommy Smith goes to Ottawa in exchange for Sammy Herber, the Ottawa goalie, goes through Moran will quit. He says, however, that he will turn out if necessary” (Victoria Daily Times, 24 November 1916)
1917: “The Quebec defence played too far out for him [Hebert], being used to Paddy Moran’s system. Paddy is the best in the business on the close shots, and therefore he always allowed the defence to play far out, but Hebert’s methods are different” (Quebec Chronicle, 22 January 1917)
1917: “Moran played goal for Quebec for about fifteen years and was one of the greatest that ever strapped on the pads. Last year he began to slip and was replaced towards the close of the season by Sammy Hebert, of Ottawa” (Calgary News Telegram, 3 December 1917)
1918: “We used to rave over Hughie Lehman, and that veteran is still good for many more seasons and will always be a star, ‘Happy’ Holmes was one of the game’s wonders, Vezina was invincible, while Paddy Moran, the Quebec veteran, was for fifteen years a puzzle to opposing forwards, but Fowler is now all the rage” (Calgary Herald, 18 January 1918)
1922: Frank Patrick, according to the 4 March edition of the Province, rejected the idea that then-present goalies were superior to the older goalies- "I regard our present goalies as wonderful players. Their work boarders on the sensational, but at the same time, in Percy Leseuer, old Ottawa goalie, Paddy Moran, of Quebec, and "Bouse" Hutton, of Ottawa, we had three of the greatest men in the nets, players every bit as good as the present-day performers. There we no greater players, past or present, than those men"
1923: Lester Patrick picked an all time All-Star team from retired players and chose Paddy Moran and Percy LeSueur.
1925: “Saskatoon comment on a recent Calgary-Saskatoon pro hockey game goes on to say: ‘George Hainsworth is still ‘our George’ in every sense of the word. Talk about George Vezina, Hughie Lemans, Paddy Morans, Clint Benedicts and all the rest, but Saskatoon is ready to back the former Kitchener amateur against the whole herd” (Waterloo Region Record, 26 February 1925)
1925 McLean Magazine Team: Vezina first team, LeSueur second team goalie, Benedict or Lehman third.
1933: “With such a great crowd of net minders, it is a wonderful tribute to thin out the boy who does his work for the Windy City club [Chuck Gardiner]. Roy Worters, George Hainsworth, Lorne Chabot and Alex Connell are very outstanding guardians, but all of them have to pass the bouquet to the western boy. Some of the oldtime players are comparing Gardiner to such former greats as Percy Leseur, Paddy Moran, Hughey Lehman, and Harry Holmes. All are careful not give him the same rating as Georges Vezina, who is conceded to be the greatest ever. It is no disgrace for the Hawk net minder to be classed behind Vezina, as the latter is the type that appears once in a generation” (Niagara Falls Review, 4 January 1933)
1934: “Though he played in an age when individualism was the hallmark of the game, hockey can boast of few more colorful figures than Paddy Moran, goaltender of the Quebec Bulldogs. The Quebec Irishman who guarded the nets for the ancient capital’s major team from 1901 until 1917 simply reeked with color for none ever played the game with so much zest and more loved to win and hated to lose than Paddy Moran. At his peak, he was perhaps the best goaler of his time, for when Paddy was ‘on’ his game, he was well nigh unbeatable. He was absolutely fearless in the nets. Of all the players who ever wore a Quebec uniform, Moran is perhaps the best loved by the home fans for he had a kindly spirit which his fiery outbursts in the heat of struggles very much belied. His greatest following was among the youngsters of Quebec City for Paddy epitomized to them all that was great in a hockey player. He was the idol of his day in the ancient capital” (Gazette, 24 February 1934)
1934: Russell Bowie, the greatest scorer of the era, picked Moran as “the hardest goaltender he ever had to beat”, claiming that “Some nights, Paddy was so good he was unbeatable” (Gazette, 5 April 1934).
1935: “Frank Stocking started his hockey career around 1894 and played until 1900, to be succeeded by Paddy Moran. The latter played until Quebec City dropped out of the N.H.A. in 1916, so that for a period of 20 years, the Ancient Capital was blessed with the best goaltending in the east” (Gazette, 8 March 1935)
1956: I’m generally not a fan of reviews of players this far removed from their career, so take this with a grain of salt, but- “Paddy played on in that game [after breaking a finger on a shot from Alf Smith] and subsequent ones without diminishing skill. Like Frank Stocking, he is remembered as one of the great goalies of yesteryear. They were different from the goalies of today. They couldn’t fall down, most of them were stick goalies, and they played for the most part in badly lighted rinks. Paddy was a clutch type like Turk Broda. In big games he was hard to beat” (Montreal Star, 25 February 1956)
1961: Like I mentioned, I don’t like/value reports that are so far removed from a player’s career, but this one was amusing (and isn’t something that proves/disproves Moran’s greatness, as it is just a fun story). Newsy Lalonde picked an “all-time, meanest, toughest team” in 1961. Paddy Moran was in goal”, with Lalonde reportedly writing “Paddy was in a class by himself when it came to chopping toes of opposing forwards who came within range, and in those days the skate toes weren’t so well padded. But his pet skill was squirting tobacco in your eye” (Ottawa Citizen, 8 April 1961)
1903: Billy Nicholson was the pick on an all-Canada team from the Brantford Courier (Gazette, 20 March 1903)
1904: “The Quebec Hockey club champions of the C.A.H.L. may lose the services of Paddy Moran, the star goaler, this winter… Consequently, Paddy Moran has been approached, and the offer is very tempting. One hundred dollars per month is the salary dangled before the clever goal-tend. This amount is to be paid for playing the game only, and Paddy would be given a position in one of the big mines, the plants of which are run by electricity. As is known, Mr. Moran is an electrician, and his salary from this source would be in addition to his hockey money. It must be admitted that the inducement is a hard one to resist, and if any goal keeper is worth the figure, he is Paddy Moran. There may be as good men between the poles as Moran, but they are not in sight” ” (Winnipeg Tribune, 17 October 1904)
1905: An unnamed ‘Montreal Man’ listed an all-star team, with Moran in goal. The write-up- “For the thankless position of goalkeeper we have elected Mr. Moran, of Quebec, with his big shin-pads. These have stopped many a goal, but Moran is not particular whether he uses them or not. He frequently projects his face in the way of the puck, anything to stop it.” (Originally from the Toronto News, as published in the Gazette, 17 February 1905)
1905: The famous fan-voted all-star team. Moran “was almost the unanimous choice” (Montreal Star, 4 March 1905)
1906: The only team I think Moran would have been eligible for was the Winnipeg Free Press editor’s “selection of a world’s champion hockey team… showing no favoritism to either East or West”. Dutchy Morrison was the pick at goal.
1907: “Paddy Moran, he of the eagle-eye and world-wide reputation, will occupy his old position before the nets for Quebec. Moran, undoubtedly, has few equals in the business, and his work itself should be well worth seeing” (Ottawa Citizen, 4 January 1907)
1907: A “well-known Montreal newspaper man” selected LeSueur for his all star team, and an All-Canadian Hockey Team originally published by the Ottawa Free Press selected LeSueur as well.
1908: A fan-selected First and Second team all star list was selected at the half-time of one of the games. Paddy Moran was on the first team; “Paddy Moran, of Quebec, has a mortage on the net position. He is known as an aggressive goalkeeper, somewhat of a misnomer for a man in that position. Very few forwards will venture close to Moran, and it is only at the most hand-to-hand quarters he can be scored upon. Billy Nicholson, of Shamrocks, is the nearest approach to Moran”
1908: The Ottawa hockey team is after Paddy Moran, of Quebec, for goal” (Moncton Transcript, 2 October 1908)
1908: “The Ottawa club, by the way, is hurting to get together a team. Negotiations have practically been completed for the signing of Jack Winchester of Toronto to play goal. Winchester played last year with Winnipeg Maple Leafs and is considered quite up to the standard of Paddy Moran. Winchester was reported signed by Wanderers, but Ottawa got there first.” (The Province, 20 November 1908 Page 13)
1909: “Paddy Moran, of Quebec, stands out as the only goalkeeper banished during the season. Paddy was off three times, twice for a minute and once for three minutes” (Gazette, 13 March 1909)
1909: Harvey Pulford (an ex-teammate of LeSueur) selected LeSueur for his all-star team. I should note that 4 of the 7 players named were Ottawa players. The others were 2 Wanderers and Lester Patrick. I don’t know how much to weigh this one.
1909: “Lesueur was in his prime last winter and had no equal as a goal keeper, his work on the average being even better than that of Paddy Moran, the Quebec ‘phenom’” (Ottawa Citizen, 23 September 1909)
1909: “Percy Lesueur, former goal keeper of the Ottawa Stanley cup hockey team, is branching out in a new line. Lesueur who is now located at Haileybury, is getting out a book on hockey. It is already in the printer’s hands and the first copies will be on the street in a week or two. Lesueur’s book will contain illustrated articles by Al. Smith, Fred Taylor, Harvey Pulford, Marty Walsh, Russell Bowie and Paddy Moran on how their respective positions should be played, also the rules and history of the great winter game” (Ottawa Citizen, 28 September 1909)
1909: “Many people have often wondered why Paddy Moran, admitted to be the greatest hockey goalkeeper of the age, remained at Quebec so long. Year after year Quebec had a third class team, and year after year Moran was between the flags. For the past six seasons, in fact, Moran has been the greatest part of the Ancient Capital seven. Now he is with Art Ross’ All-Montreal team, drawing the fat salary of $2,000 for standing between the poles and letting the other teams shoot away at him”
1910: “If Quebec has ever produced anything upon which it can pride itself, it has been goal-tends in the hockey game. It is unnecessary to mention such stars as Frank Stocking and ‘Paddy’ Moran. Their well-earned fame is known from one end of the Dominion to the other” (Quebec Chronicle, 6 January 1910)
1910: “In Paddy Moran they have one who is supposed to be the greatest net custodian in the business” (Ottawa Citizen, 31 January 1910)
1910: “When Art Ross was signed by Haileybury, it is said that he received $4,000 for the eight weeks. Many laughed at the idea of paying such a sum for a hockey player, but when the circumstances are looked into, it will be seen that Haileybury was getting a large package of goods, for the money that they are paying out. Ross induced Paddy Moran to leave his comfortable diggings in Quebec, and hike for Montreal. He, however, signed a contract in which he agreed to pay Moran $2,000 for one season’s work” (Ottawa Journal, 9 February 1910)
1910: The Ottawa Free Press (notice how it is usually Ottawa papers giving LeSueur the all star nods?) provided an all-star team for the NHA. LeSueur got the nod in goal. 3 of the seven players were from Ottawa.
1911: “The Renfrew players also said that Bert Lindsay had played remarkable games at Quebec and Montreal. ‘Talk about Lesueur,’ cried Donald Smith, ‘Why even Paddy Moran took off his hat to Bert’” (Ottawa Citizen, 6 January 1911)
1911: Tommy Dunderdale picked an NHA all star team, LeSueur being his choice for goal. “On Dunderdale’s team would be found Percy Leseur guarding the nets. While the Ottawa goal tend has two great rivals in Riley Hern of the Wanderers and Paddy Moran of the Quebecs, Tommy’s choice undoubtedly will be a popular one” (Moncton Transcript, 13 March 1911). I’ll add that there are some odd selections, though perhaps that is my general ignorance of the 1911 league- Barney Holden at cover? Don Smith as one of the two selected centers?
1911: “Paddy Moran of Quebec, who is considered the best goaltender in the National Hockey League, will likely play goal for the Vancouver team. He has been offered a nice sum of money to come west and has just about made up his mind to accept” (The Province, 14 November 1911)
1911: “Paddy Moran, the Quebec goal tender, and one of the best ever to don pads, will soon be using a C.P.R. ticket” (Brantford Daily Expositor, 4 December 1911)
1912: “Paddy Moran is the ‘white hope’ of the Quebec outfit. He is the only good man that the Ancient Capital have been able to hang on to” (Calgary Herald, 4 January 1912)
1912: An article titled “Hugh Lehman One of the Greatest in Nets” from the Vancouver Daily World, 1 February 1912, published discussion about goalies from a fanning bee in Vancouver. As the title would suggest, Lehamn was mentioned, as was Paddy Moran ("Paddy Moran is perhaps the one best bet of the four and his wonderful record with the old Quebec team stamps him as the cleverest goal custodian of the East"), Percy LeSueur ("Percy Leseur is one of the greatest students of hockey. He is always trying to learn some new wrinkles and also always trying to teach others what he knows of the game"), Dutchy Morrison ("'Dutchy' Morrison made a great name for himself in O.H.A. hockey...He then game west and put Portage la Prairie on the hockey map. He was the most finished player that ever performed in that section"), and Whitey Merritt ("'Whitey' Merritt was the old Victoria goal tender... His work is still talked about by the old timers, who claim that the present generation has not seen his equal"). Riley Hern and Jack Winchester were noted as well ("Riley Hern and the late Jack Winchester must also be mentioned as great men between the nets").
1912: “‘I want to say just one word,’ said the man in the corner, ‘you make talk about your goalkeepers, but is there anyone who has anything on Paddy Moran, the veteran of the Quebec team. Goalers may come and goalers may go, but Paddy seems to go on forever. Quebec has produced a good many of them- not forgetting Percy LeSueur, of Ottawa- but Paddy is still my choice.’” (Quebec Chronicle, 6 February 1912)
1912: “Paddy Moran, the Quebec goal-tend is a native-born Quebec hockey player, and has been recognized as the best goal-tend playing the game” (Calgary Albertan, 18 March 1912)
1912: An article from the Victoria Daily Times (3 April) claims “"Paddy" Moran, the famous goaltender of the Stanley cup holders, and "Hughie" Lehman of the Westminster champions, are considered the best net-custodians in the game to-day, with the possible exception of "Percy" Leseur of the Ottawas”
1912: “Every time that a hockey goal tender is referred to there is sure to be some Easterner who will mention the name of Paddy Moran, the Quebec veteran, who is one of the greatest net guardians who ever stood between the poles… Working right, however, Moran is the equal of any net guardian that ever strapped on the pads. Short and broad, he presents a comical figure as he skates onto the ice. He is so big and pads himself to such an extent that he almost fills the poles during a game. He stops them every way, stick, feet, legs, hands and if necessary, he will interject his ace in the way of a flying hockey puck, regardless of the consequences. His ability to stop close in shots gives his team a great deal of confidence, and it was Paddy Moran, more than anyone else, who is directly responsible for Quebec’s victory in the national championship last winter” (Victoria Daily Times, 3 October 1912)
1912: “Manager ‘Petie’ Green of the Ottawas does not claim much for that club’s goal-minder. Hark to this from the Ottawa Citizen:- ‘Petie Green regards Percy Lesueur as the greatest of all goal-keepers. He has saved us a hundred times when a score would have meant the championship,’ said Green recently. ‘There’ll never be another Lesueur’...Y-e-s?- but where do Paddy Moran and Billy Hague fit. There are many who will TAKE ISSUE with this Lesueur dope. If you value your life, don’t repeat it in old ‘Kebec!’”(Evening Mail, 23 December 1912)
1913: “Billy Hague is a star in the meshes that’s sure. In landing him Socials bring to Halifax one of the top-notchers of the game, rated as only second to the great Paddy Moran, o the world’s champions” (Moncton Transcript, 2 January 1913)
1913: “‘Paddy’ Moran, than whom there is no more brilliant net guardian in hockey today” (Vancouver Daily World, 29 March 1913)
1913: “Paddy Moran, the Quebec goal tend, has lost nothing of his skill and, to judge by the games he has put up this year, he was never more reliable. Paddy is a native-born Quebecer and is recognized as the best goaler in the N.H.A. to-day” (Victoria Daily Times, 22 March 1913)
1913: Quoting the Montreal Herald- “Quebec is after Billy Hague, the star goaler of the Maritime Province last year, and it may be the champions seek a younger man than Paddy Moran to guard the nets. Hague played goal for Ottawa in 1906, when only eighteen years of age, and classes up with the best custodians in the country”. The Times-Transcript then commented- “If Quebec is successful in landing the Ottawa boy, it is the firm belief of many that ere the season finishes he will supplant Paddy Moran. Hague made his debut in pro. Hockey in 1906 and there is reason to believe that he would have been kept on only for the fact of the ‘hold’ that Percy LeSueur has on the Ottawa’s” (Times-Transcript, 22 November 1913)
1914: “Paddy Moran, who has quite a reputation as a net guardian in the hockey world…” (Toronto Star, 26 May 1914)
1915:”Moran again demonstrated that he is the king of all goal-keepers and on his season’s work there can be no doubt that Paddy has no superior in the nets in the game” (Quebec Chronicle, 25 February 1915)
1915: “Ottawa reports state Paddy Moran was the star. If anyone starts picking all-star teams in the N.H.A. on past season’s performance, the goaltend position belongs to Moran. Mr. Vezina is great, but Moran excelled even his own best performances of the best” (Quebec Chronicle, 4 March 1915)
1915: “The news that Paddy Moran has again signed up with Quebec will be welcomed by all hockey followers, not only in the city but over the circuit where he is a general favorite with the fans. Moran played some of the greatest hockey of his career last season and even the wonderful Vezina did not perform so consistently as Moran did. The Quebec club wouldn’t seem the same if Paddy’s familiar figure was not filling in space between the iron posts. As a well-known Montreal enthusiast remarked of the veteran goaltend, during a nerve-wracking game in which Quebec was striving desperately to hold a gone-goal lead on Montreal ice- ‘Moran seemed like a lion in a cage and the way he baffled all efforts of the opposing team to score seemed to take all the heart out of them, and if any man won the game for Quebec that night it was Moran’. But that is only one incident in Paddy’s long career and the men who have played for years in front of Moran can add their testimony to his prowess. Many a time the defence man has groaned with despair as one of the other side got through with but Paddy to beat only to have his spirits again revived by Moran’s brilliant save. Moran is no youngster but he seems to grow better with age and there is little room to doubt that Paddy will play the same reliable hockey this winter that he has always demonstrated” (Quebec Chronicle, 17 November 1915)
1916: “Most fans think Vezina of Canadiens the best goalkeeper in the N.H.A. If he is, Paddy Moran of Quebec is a mighty healthy rival” (Toronto Star, 3 January 1916)
1916: “But this season he [Vezina] has not one rival, but four. Lindsay, Clint Benedict, and the veterans Paddy Moran and Percy Lesuer have all pulled themselves up to a position at least equal to that of Vezina, and in the eyes o their most rabid supporters, at any rate, they are in some respects, superior” (Winnipeg Tribune, 18 March 1916)
1916: “Paddy Moran The veteran Quebec goaltender, who is generally conceded to be the greatest player in his position who has ever stopped a puck” (Victoria Daily Times, 2 November 1916)
1916: “From Quebec comes word that Paddy Moran, the veteran goalkeeper of the ancient capital’s hockey club, who has been playing senior hockey probably longer than any other man in the game to-day, is anxious to retire this season. If a deal in which Tommy Smith goes to Ottawa in exchange for Sammy Herber, the Ottawa goalie, goes through Moran will quit. He says, however, that he will turn out if necessary” (Victoria Daily Times, 24 November 1916)
1917: “The Quebec defence played too far out for him [Hebert], being used to Paddy Moran’s system. Paddy is the best in the business on the close shots, and therefore he always allowed the defence to play far out, but Hebert’s methods are different” (Quebec Chronicle, 22 January 1917)
1917: “Moran played goal for Quebec for about fifteen years and was one of the greatest that ever strapped on the pads. Last year he began to slip and was replaced towards the close of the season by Sammy Hebert, of Ottawa” (Calgary News Telegram, 3 December 1917)
1918: “We used to rave over Hughie Lehman, and that veteran is still good for many more seasons and will always be a star, ‘Happy’ Holmes was one of the game’s wonders, Vezina was invincible, while Paddy Moran, the Quebec veteran, was for fifteen years a puzzle to opposing forwards, but Fowler is now all the rage” (Calgary Herald, 18 January 1918)
1922: Frank Patrick, according to the 4 March edition of the Province, rejected the idea that then-present goalies were superior to the older goalies- "I regard our present goalies as wonderful players. Their work boarders on the sensational, but at the same time, in Percy Leseuer, old Ottawa goalie, Paddy Moran, of Quebec, and "Bouse" Hutton, of Ottawa, we had three of the greatest men in the nets, players every bit as good as the present-day performers. There we no greater players, past or present, than those men"
1923: Lester Patrick picked an all time All-Star team from retired players and chose Paddy Moran and Percy LeSueur.
1925: “Saskatoon comment on a recent Calgary-Saskatoon pro hockey game goes on to say: ‘George Hainsworth is still ‘our George’ in every sense of the word. Talk about George Vezina, Hughie Lemans, Paddy Morans, Clint Benedicts and all the rest, but Saskatoon is ready to back the former Kitchener amateur against the whole herd” (Waterloo Region Record, 26 February 1925)
1925 McLean Magazine Team: Vezina first team, LeSueur second team goalie, Benedict or Lehman third.
1933: “With such a great crowd of net minders, it is a wonderful tribute to thin out the boy who does his work for the Windy City club [Chuck Gardiner]. Roy Worters, George Hainsworth, Lorne Chabot and Alex Connell are very outstanding guardians, but all of them have to pass the bouquet to the western boy. Some of the oldtime players are comparing Gardiner to such former greats as Percy Leseur, Paddy Moran, Hughey Lehman, and Harry Holmes. All are careful not give him the same rating as Georges Vezina, who is conceded to be the greatest ever. It is no disgrace for the Hawk net minder to be classed behind Vezina, as the latter is the type that appears once in a generation” (Niagara Falls Review, 4 January 1933)
1934: “Though he played in an age when individualism was the hallmark of the game, hockey can boast of few more colorful figures than Paddy Moran, goaltender of the Quebec Bulldogs. The Quebec Irishman who guarded the nets for the ancient capital’s major team from 1901 until 1917 simply reeked with color for none ever played the game with so much zest and more loved to win and hated to lose than Paddy Moran. At his peak, he was perhaps the best goaler of his time, for when Paddy was ‘on’ his game, he was well nigh unbeatable. He was absolutely fearless in the nets. Of all the players who ever wore a Quebec uniform, Moran is perhaps the best loved by the home fans for he had a kindly spirit which his fiery outbursts in the heat of struggles very much belied. His greatest following was among the youngsters of Quebec City for Paddy epitomized to them all that was great in a hockey player. He was the idol of his day in the ancient capital” (Gazette, 24 February 1934)
1934: Russell Bowie, the greatest scorer of the era, picked Moran as “the hardest goaltender he ever had to beat”, claiming that “Some nights, Paddy was so good he was unbeatable” (Gazette, 5 April 1934).
1935: “Frank Stocking started his hockey career around 1894 and played until 1900, to be succeeded by Paddy Moran. The latter played until Quebec City dropped out of the N.H.A. in 1916, so that for a period of 20 years, the Ancient Capital was blessed with the best goaltending in the east” (Gazette, 8 March 1935)
1956: I’m generally not a fan of reviews of players this far removed from their career, so take this with a grain of salt, but- “Paddy played on in that game [after breaking a finger on a shot from Alf Smith] and subsequent ones without diminishing skill. Like Frank Stocking, he is remembered as one of the great goalies of yesteryear. They were different from the goalies of today. They couldn’t fall down, most of them were stick goalies, and they played for the most part in badly lighted rinks. Paddy was a clutch type like Turk Broda. In big games he was hard to beat” (Montreal Star, 25 February 1956)
1961: Like I mentioned, I don’t like/value reports that are so far removed from a player’s career, but this one was amusing (and isn’t something that proves/disproves Moran’s greatness, as it is just a fun story). Newsy Lalonde picked an “all-time, meanest, toughest team” in 1961. Paddy Moran was in goal”, with Lalonde reportedly writing “Paddy was in a class by himself when it came to chopping toes of opposing forwards who came within range, and in those days the skate toes weren’t so well padded. But his pet skill was squirting tobacco in your eye” (Ottawa Citizen, 8 April 1961)
jigglysquishy
Registered User
Moran has a good chance of going number one for me this round.
Has anyone looked into the the springtime collapses of Chuck Rayner's New York Rangers?
1946:
The team is bad the whole way through. Rayner allows more goals on the back end than the front end, but it doesn't really matter. The Rangers are 15 points out of the playoffs in a 50 game season.
1947:
As of February 5th:
NYR: 18-20-5
Rangers in 3rd place, ahead of Boston on tiebreaker.
Rayner: 18-18-5, 2.71 GAA
End of year:
Miss playoffs by 5 points
NYR: 22-32-6 (4-12-1 after previous date)
Rayner: 4-12-1, 3.88 GAA
1948:
Previously covered in a playoffs post, Rayner was hurt, Jim Henry was in net most of the year.
Rayner is below average in the playoffs,
1949
February 6th:
NYR: 14-18-10
Rangers in 5th place, 3 points out of playoffs, 6 points back of 2nd.
Rayner: 12-18-10, 2.53 GAA
Down The Stretch
NYR 4-13-1, last place, miss playoffs by 10 points
Rayner, 4-13-1, 3.72 GAA
1950
Goes to Finals, covered in a previous playoffs post.
Rayner is very good in round 1, and it's one of the few times Rocket Richard has a down year in the playoffs. Rayner has a bad ending to the Finals. Games 6 and 7 are on film reel highlights, and they're two not-great games. Lumley keeps giving away leads, and Rayner keeps letting the Wings back in the game.
1951
Feb 15
NYR 16-20-17, 3rd place, 1 and 2 points ahead of 4th and 5th
Rayner: 16-19-17, 2.73
Down The Stretch
Rangers 4-9-4, 5th, 1 point out of playoffs and 4 points back of 3rd
Rayner, 3-8-2, 3.07
Francis, 1-1-2, 2.25
1952
As of Jan 9 (Rayner's season ends early)
NYR 14-18-6, 4th place, 1 point up on 5th
Rayner 14-18-6, 2.79
Down "The Stretch"
NYR: 9-16-7
Rayner 4-7-4, 3.33 GAA
Francis 4-7-3, 2.93 GAA
Anderson 1-2-0, 6.00 GAA
1953
Rayner plays even fewer games. On the season as a whole:
Rayner: 4-8-8, 2.90
Worsley: 13-29-8, 3.02
Gump last 10 games: 2-7-1, 3.00
No collapse, really. Rayner is a little better early, than later, but it's 20 games. They're just bad. 6th, 19 points out of playoffs.
1954
NYR: 29-31-10, 5th, best points % since 1942, 6 points out of playoffs
Bower: 29-31-10, 2.53
Bower Last 10 Games: 5-3-2, 1.60 GAA
No collapse, and this Bower kid may turn out to be somebody.
1946:
The team is bad the whole way through. Rayner allows more goals on the back end than the front end, but it doesn't really matter. The Rangers are 15 points out of the playoffs in a 50 game season.
1947:
As of February 5th:
NYR: 18-20-5
Rangers in 3rd place, ahead of Boston on tiebreaker.
Rayner: 18-18-5, 2.71 GAA
End of year:
Miss playoffs by 5 points
NYR: 22-32-6 (4-12-1 after previous date)
Rayner: 4-12-1, 3.88 GAA
1948:
Previously covered in a playoffs post, Rayner was hurt, Jim Henry was in net most of the year.
Rayner is below average in the playoffs,
1949
February 6th:
NYR: 14-18-10
Rangers in 5th place, 3 points out of playoffs, 6 points back of 2nd.
Rayner: 12-18-10, 2.53 GAA
Down The Stretch
NYR 4-13-1, last place, miss playoffs by 10 points
Rayner, 4-13-1, 3.72 GAA
1950
Goes to Finals, covered in a previous playoffs post.
Rayner is very good in round 1, and it's one of the few times Rocket Richard has a down year in the playoffs. Rayner has a bad ending to the Finals. Games 6 and 7 are on film reel highlights, and they're two not-great games. Lumley keeps giving away leads, and Rayner keeps letting the Wings back in the game.
1951
Feb 15
NYR 16-20-17, 3rd place, 1 and 2 points ahead of 4th and 5th
Rayner: 16-19-17, 2.73
Down The Stretch
Rangers 4-9-4, 5th, 1 point out of playoffs and 4 points back of 3rd
Rayner, 3-8-2, 3.07
Francis, 1-1-2, 2.25
1952
As of Jan 9 (Rayner's season ends early)
NYR 14-18-6, 4th place, 1 point up on 5th
Rayner 14-18-6, 2.79
Down "The Stretch"
NYR: 9-16-7
Rayner 4-7-4, 3.33 GAA
Francis 4-7-3, 2.93 GAA
Anderson 1-2-0, 6.00 GAA
1953
Rayner plays even fewer games. On the season as a whole:
Rayner: 4-8-8, 2.90
Worsley: 13-29-8, 3.02
Gump last 10 games: 2-7-1, 3.00
No collapse, really. Rayner is a little better early, than later, but it's 20 games. They're just bad. 6th, 19 points out of playoffs.
1954
NYR: 29-31-10, 5th, best points % since 1942, 6 points out of playoffs
Bower: 29-31-10, 2.53
Bower Last 10 Games: 5-3-2, 1.60 GAA
No collapse, and this Bower kid may turn out to be somebody.
And if you're not happy with my choice in games (my point is that there was a late collapse, not a collapse after X games, or by a specific date), here's his career splits:
October: 9-20-8, 2.68
November: 19-37-21, 3.13
December: 33-40-18, 2.76
January: 35-39-11, 2.86
February: 28-37-15, 3.13
March: 15-34-8, 3.72
October: 9-20-8, 2.68
November: 19-37-21, 3.13
December: 33-40-18, 2.76
January: 35-39-11, 2.86
February: 28-37-15, 3.13
March: 15-34-8, 3.72
Professor What
Registered User
I think I've said this already, but Moran was, I feel, the biggest screw up I made on my list. I had him way too low, and apparently, I wasn't the only one.
His longevity is extremely impressive, and, even though it's a small sample size, I think he played his best hockey when the stakes were highest, playing for the Cup.
MXD
Partying Hard
- Oct 27, 2005
- 51,801
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Lots of ex-Rangers this round, huh? Richter, Shestyorkin, Chabot, Giacomin, Kerr, Rayner, Roach. That's fully half the pool, what a coincidence. Just talking about these guys:
Shestyorkin is a hard one for me- yeah, it's only 4 years at the NHL level, but he's got several seasons in the KHL as well, which shouldn't be zeros. I don't know where he is ultimately going to fall on my ballot this round, but I am pretty sure it is going to be in front of Richter, who I don't really see much of a case for at this point.
I also think it's early for Chabot. Is there something I'm missing there? Out of the 7 Rangers, I think he's last, right?
I don't have much separating Giacomin/Kerr/Rayner/Roach, but I'll definitely be interested in reading what comes out in the discussions this round.
Shestyorkin is a hard one for me- yeah, it's only 4 years at the NHL level, but he's got several seasons in the KHL as well, which shouldn't be zeros. I don't know where he is ultimately going to fall on my ballot this round, but I am pretty sure it is going to be in front of Richter, who I don't really see much of a case for at this point.
I also think it's early for Chabot. Is there something I'm missing there? Out of the 7 Rangers, I think he's last, right?
I don't have much separating Giacomin/Kerr/Rayner/Roach, but I'll definitely be interested in reading what comes out in the discussions this round.
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
Hmmm, upon closer inspection of Kerr and his direct peers, I think I overrated him. I wanted to give him points for the advent of some technical things, but I don't think that's appropriate. So, I'm partially (mostly?) responsible for Kerr being available in the first place...which I think is probably a bit early now. My apologies.
Doesn't look like it.
March 1946
4 Home, 3.75
2 Away, 5.00
March 1947
6 Home, 4.50
4 Away, 2.25
March 1948
Rangers played 5 home, 5 away, Rayner had 1 each against 6th place Chicago.
1 Home, 4 GA
1 Away, 2 GA
March 1949
4 Home, 2.50
5 Away, 5.80
March 1950
8 Home, 3.75
4 Away, 4.00
March 1951
5 Home, 2.80
4 Away, 3.00
No March games in 1952 or 1953
The circus was an April thing apparently.
April usually brings two things to Madison Square Garden... - UPI Archives
"The circus was in town every April during the Rangers era at the old Garden, on Eighth Avenue between 49th and 50th Streets. April is also when Stanley Cup play began."
When the Clowns Came In, the Rangers Moved Out (Published 2014)
"The New York Rangers had the better record but only had two games at home, as a contract with the circus made Madison Square Garden unavailable after April 3rd."
On This Date in Sports April 13, 1940: The Rangers Win the Cup
jigglysquishy
Registered User
Every Paddy Moran playoff game (there's only four)
1912 Stanley Cup
Quebec (Moran) defeats Moncton (Billy Hague) 9-3
No relevant comments
Quebec beats Moncton 8-0
The Daily Telegraph · Mar 14, 1912
So Paddy Moran has the first goalie goal in 1906 then?
1913 Stanley Cup
Quebec (Moran) defeats Sidney (Toby McDonald) 14-3
No relevant comments, but in the Toronto World "Smith, Hall, Mummery, Malone, and Crawford" were the stars.
Quebec wins 6-2
The Montreal Gazette · Mar 11, 1913
Unfortunately, that's it for Cup games. @rmartin65 has a lot more detail, but I do think Moran was absolutely tops in the sport from ~1905-1915.
In my mind, by about 1915, LeSeuer and Moran are the two names that can make a serious argument for best goalie of all time. And while I do have LeSueur ahead, I do think it's time for Moran.
1912 Stanley Cup
Quebec (Moran) defeats Moncton (Billy Hague) 9-3
No relevant comments
Quebec beats Moncton 8-0
The Daily Telegraph · Mar 14, 1912
So Paddy Moran has the first goalie goal in 1906 then?
1913 Stanley Cup
Quebec (Moran) defeats Sidney (Toby McDonald) 14-3
No relevant comments, but in the Toronto World "Smith, Hall, Mummery, Malone, and Crawford" were the stars.
Quebec wins 6-2
The Montreal Gazette · Mar 11, 1913
Unfortunately, that's it for Cup games. @rmartin65 has a lot more detail, but I do think Moran was absolutely tops in the sport from ~1905-1915.
In my mind, by about 1915, LeSeuer and Moran are the two names that can make a serious argument for best goalie of all time. And while I do have LeSueur ahead, I do think it's time for Moran.
overpass
Registered User
Regarding Chuck Rayner's two playoffs, the New York writers voted a playoff MVP (the William J Macbeth Memorial Trophy) for the Rangers in each of them.
archive.thehockeynews.com
In 1948, Rayner finished third in voting. Phil Watson won, and Tony Leswick was second. The two forwards were tied in voting points and Watson had more first place votes for the tiebreaker.
In 1950, Don "Bones" Raleigh was the winner, likely on the strength of his overtime goals in games 4 and 5 of the Finals. No mention of lower finishers.
Considering that goalies tend to get a lot of credit when playing for underdogs, it's not to Rayner's credit that he wasn't the team MVP in either of his playoff runs.
The Hockey News Archive
Explore every issue of The Hockey News from 1947 to today.
In 1948, Rayner finished third in voting. Phil Watson won, and Tony Leswick was second. The two forwards were tied in voting points and Watson had more first place votes for the tiebreaker.
In 1950, Don "Bones" Raleigh was the winner, likely on the strength of his overtime goals in games 4 and 5 of the Finals. No mention of lower finishers.
Considering that goalies tend to get a lot of credit when playing for underdogs, it's not to Rayner's credit that he wasn't the team MVP in either of his playoff runs.
jigglysquishy
Registered User
Mike Richter's 1994 Stanley Cup Run
Round 1
Rangers defeat Islanders 6-0
Shots: Rangers 39 Islanders 21
Rangers 1 Islanders 0
The Spokesman-Review · Apr 18, 1994
Rangers win 6-0
Shots: Rangers 36 Islanders 29
Rangers 2 Islanders 0
McCook Daily Gazette · Apr 19, 1994
Rangers win 5-1
Shots: Rangers 18 Islanders 22
Rangers 3 Islanders 0
Record-Journal · Apr 22, 1994
Rangers win 5-2
Shots: Rangers 34 Islanders 18
Rangers 4 Islanders 0
Reading Eagle · Apr 25, 1994
It's a strong series (3 goals against in 4 games) and he's the most praised Ranger. Messier, Kovalev, and Leetch next. I thought Leetch, with 8 points in 4 games would get the most praise. Messier is the most praised skater.
Round 2
Rangers defeat Capitals 6-3
Shots: Rangers 24 Caps 30
Rangers 1 Caps 0
No relevant comments
Rangers win 5-2
Shots: Rangers 25 Caps 24
Rangers 2 Caps 0
The Day · May 4, 1994
Rangers win 3-0
Shots: Rangers 21 Caps 21
Rangers 3 Caps 0
The Free Lance-Star · May 6, 1994
Caps win 4-2
Shots: Rangers 27 Caps 23
Rangers 3 Caps 1
The Telegraph · May 8, 1994
Rangers win 4-3
Shots: Rangers 36 Caps 31
Rangers 4 Caps 1
The Free Lance-Star · May 10, 1994
Lots of Rangers getting praised this series. Zubov and Leetch. Noonan and Messier. Kovalev and Graves. Richter and Tikkanen too. If I had to single someone out, it would be Leetch.
Round 3
Devils win 4-3 in double OT
Shots: Rangers 38 Devils 48
Rangers 0 Devils 1
No relevant comments
Rangers win 4-0
Shots: Rangers 41 Devils 16
Rangers 1 Devils 1
Sun Journal · May 18, 1994
Rangers win 3-2 in double OT
Shots: Rangers 50 Devils 31
Rangers 2 Devils 1
Daily Union · May 20, 1994
Devils win 3-1
Shots: Rangers 22 Devils 25
Rangers 2 Devils 2
Star-News · May 22, 1994
Devils win 4-1
Shots: Rangers 26 Devils 26
Rangers 2 Devils 3
No relevant comments. Praise is all towards Brodeur and Bernie Nicholls (returning from a suspension for his hit on Kovalev)
Rangers win 4-2
Shots: Rangers 35 Devils 30
Rangers 3 Devils 3
The Dispatch · May 26, 1994
Times-Union · May 26, 1994
Rangers win 2-1 in double OT
Shots: Rangers 48 Devils 32
Rangers 4 Devils 3
Herald-Journal · May 29, 1994
Messier and Brodeur are for sure the most praised players this series. Lots of Rangers getting praise including Leetch, Richter, Graves, and Anderson.
Stanley Cup Finals
Canucks win 3-2 in OT
Shots: Rangers 54 Canucks 31
Rangers 0 Canucks 1
Lodi News-Sentinel · Jun 1, 1994
Rangers win 3-1
Shots: Rangers 39 Canucks 29
Rangers 1 Canucks 1
Allegheny Times · Jun 3, 1994
Rangers win 5-1
Shots: Rangers 25 Canucks 25
Rangers 2 Canucks 1
The Daily Gazette · Jun 5, 1994
Rangers win 4-2
Shots: Rangers 27 Canucks 30
Rangers 3 Canucks 1
The Daily Sentinel · Jun 8, 1994
Canucks win 6-3
Shots: Rangers 38 Canucks 37
Rangers 3 Canucks 2
No relevant comments
Canucks win 4-1
Shots: Rangers 29 Canucks 31
Rangers 3 Canucks 3
The Spokesman-Review · Jun 12, 1994
Rangers win 3-2
Shots: Rangers 35 Canucks 30
Rangers 4 Canucks 3
Allegheny Times · Jun 15, 1994
A good series. McLean plays some great hockey. Richter has a rough games 5 and 6. Leetch was fantastic, as was Trevor Linden.
It's a pretty clear top three across all four series for the Rangers. Leetch, Richter, Messier. Leetch's great SCF pushed him over the top. After the first three series, I would have had him third before Messier and Richter.
So much of Richter's reason for being here now is the 1994 run, so I think it's worthwhile to take a holistic look at it.
Round 1
Rangers defeat Islanders 6-0
Shots: Rangers 39 Islanders 21
Rangers 1 Islanders 0
The Spokesman-Review · Apr 18, 1994
Rangers win 6-0
Shots: Rangers 36 Islanders 29
Rangers 2 Islanders 0
McCook Daily Gazette · Apr 19, 1994
Rangers win 5-1
Shots: Rangers 18 Islanders 22
Rangers 3 Islanders 0
Record-Journal · Apr 22, 1994
Rangers win 5-2
Shots: Rangers 34 Islanders 18
Rangers 4 Islanders 0
Reading Eagle · Apr 25, 1994
It's a strong series (3 goals against in 4 games) and he's the most praised Ranger. Messier, Kovalev, and Leetch next. I thought Leetch, with 8 points in 4 games would get the most praise. Messier is the most praised skater.
Round 2
Rangers defeat Capitals 6-3
Shots: Rangers 24 Caps 30
Rangers 1 Caps 0
No relevant comments
Rangers win 5-2
Shots: Rangers 25 Caps 24
Rangers 2 Caps 0
The Day · May 4, 1994
Rangers win 3-0
Shots: Rangers 21 Caps 21
Rangers 3 Caps 0
The Free Lance-Star · May 6, 1994
Caps win 4-2
Shots: Rangers 27 Caps 23
Rangers 3 Caps 1
The Telegraph · May 8, 1994
Rangers win 4-3
Shots: Rangers 36 Caps 31
Rangers 4 Caps 1
The Free Lance-Star · May 10, 1994
Lots of Rangers getting praised this series. Zubov and Leetch. Noonan and Messier. Kovalev and Graves. Richter and Tikkanen too. If I had to single someone out, it would be Leetch.
Round 3
Devils win 4-3 in double OT
Shots: Rangers 38 Devils 48
Rangers 0 Devils 1
No relevant comments
Rangers win 4-0
Shots: Rangers 41 Devils 16
Rangers 1 Devils 1
Sun Journal · May 18, 1994
Rangers win 3-2 in double OT
Shots: Rangers 50 Devils 31
Rangers 2 Devils 1
Daily Union · May 20, 1994
Devils win 3-1
Shots: Rangers 22 Devils 25
Rangers 2 Devils 2
Star-News · May 22, 1994
Devils win 4-1
Shots: Rangers 26 Devils 26
Rangers 2 Devils 3
No relevant comments. Praise is all towards Brodeur and Bernie Nicholls (returning from a suspension for his hit on Kovalev)
Rangers win 4-2
Shots: Rangers 35 Devils 30
Rangers 3 Devils 3
The Dispatch · May 26, 1994
Times-Union · May 26, 1994
Rangers win 2-1 in double OT
Shots: Rangers 48 Devils 32
Rangers 4 Devils 3
Herald-Journal · May 29, 1994
Messier and Brodeur are for sure the most praised players this series. Lots of Rangers getting praise including Leetch, Richter, Graves, and Anderson.
Stanley Cup Finals
Canucks win 3-2 in OT
Shots: Rangers 54 Canucks 31
Rangers 0 Canucks 1
Lodi News-Sentinel · Jun 1, 1994
Rangers win 3-1
Shots: Rangers 39 Canucks 29
Rangers 1 Canucks 1
Allegheny Times · Jun 3, 1994
Rangers win 5-1
Shots: Rangers 25 Canucks 25
Rangers 2 Canucks 1
The Daily Gazette · Jun 5, 1994
Rangers win 4-2
Shots: Rangers 27 Canucks 30
Rangers 3 Canucks 1
The Daily Sentinel · Jun 8, 1994
Canucks win 6-3
Shots: Rangers 38 Canucks 37
Rangers 3 Canucks 2
No relevant comments
Canucks win 4-1
Shots: Rangers 29 Canucks 31
Rangers 3 Canucks 3
The Spokesman-Review · Jun 12, 1994
Rangers win 3-2
Shots: Rangers 35 Canucks 30
Rangers 4 Canucks 3
Allegheny Times · Jun 15, 1994
Sarasota Herald-Tribune · Jun 15, 1994
A good series. McLean plays some great hockey. Richter has a rough games 5 and 6. Leetch was fantastic, as was Trevor Linden.
It's a pretty clear top three across all four series for the Rangers. Leetch, Richter, Messier. Leetch's great SCF pushed him over the top. After the first three series, I would have had him third before Messier and Richter.
So much of Richter's reason for being here now is the 1994 run, so I think it's worthwhile to take a holistic look at it.
