Value of: Ho-sang

[72hockey guy]

What I damn well know is JHS played a whopping 20+ games for the nyi this season. A season the isles will have given up the most goals of any team in the league.
Accountibility? What is that Snow's joke of the day?

How many games have the overpaid,underperforming vets been given a pass on, with Deadweight telling the press that they did some good things,played hard

none of that has anything to do with hosang

those are issues with Snow and Doug Weight

it is not Ho Sangs responsibility to judge his coach or GM, thats why you have a problem youre confusing what Ho sang is reponsible for and what he isnt

they are separate issues.

if you cant understand that then youll never understand. thos issues are entirely the purview of Ledecky and Malkin the owners. and until they decide that Snow and Weight are not worth giving the Authority, Josh Ho Sang has no right to question their decisions

he signed the standard players contract, the terms of which are clear.

take your issues with Snow and Weight to ownership, the people with the responsibility to make those decisions. not Josh Ho Sang.

tell me, if you break your leg do you go to"joe the plumber" or to a doctor?

you know as well as i do, Ho Sang has no right to question his superiors and your blowing smoke to obfuscate the issue

 

[Pennaduck]

Right? It's tough. He's got incredible skills and is built for the speed game the NHL currently has going for itself. He's an excellent playmaker. That's first round pick material. That being said, he's had a couple of seasons and while producing at the NHL level still needs work.

There's no good way for this to work out for the Islanders unless he's playing for them in the NHL. The odds of getting a top 6 forward in the mid 40's (someone would give up a 2nd for Ho-Sang) isn't a great %, especially for our franchise.

He'd have to be the 2nd part of a trade piece that would land us a top 6 forward or top 4 d, I guess (if that's possible).

Well this probably won't be agreed to by 99.9% of other Ducks fans so I'll start by saying I am not speaking for the fan base here, but I see us having some cap issues next season if Eaves comes back. We may need to move one of Eaves, Silfverberg, or Henrique unless ownership is going to spend to the cap (which is a possibility) or Bob Murray re-signs all of our RFAs to cheap bridge deals this offseason (also a possibility). Longer term, the issue becomes re-signing Gibson, Henrique, and Silfverberg. Eaves is basically unmovable due to his health concerns and Henrique is too important to us as a center. So if there are cap issues to deal with, I could see Silf being the player to be moved.

He's a defensively responsible top six winger who can put up 40 points in addition to strong two-way play. He's signed through next season but would likely be easy for the Isles to re-sign long term if they take the next step into being a contender next season (which I think they will). What would the Isles add to Ho-Sang to make a deal for him? Also, how do you value Adam Pelech?

 

[72hockey guy]

Well this probably won't be agreed to by 99.9% of other Ducks fans so I'll start by saying I am not speaking for the fan base here, but I see us having some cap issues next season if Eaves comes back. We may need to move one of Eaves, Silfverberg, or Henrique unless ownership is going to spend to the cap (which is a possibility) or Bob Murray re-signs all of our RFAs to cheap bridge deals this offseason (also a possibility). Longer term, the issue becomes re-signing Gibson, Henrique, and Silfverberg. Eaves is basically unmovable due to his health concerns and Henrique is too important to us as a center. So if there are cap issues to deal with, I could see Silf being the player to be moved.

He's a defensively responsible top six winger who can put up 40 points in addition to strong two-way play. He's signed through next season but would likely be easy for the Isles to re-sign long term if they take the next step into being a contender next season (which I think they will). What would the Isles add to Ho-Sang to make a deal for him? Also, how do you value Adam Pelech?

nothing. you dont let the inmates run the assylum, there comes a point where you have to make a stand.

if you want to offer the 28th overall pick or better for Ho Sang straight up then fine, until then look elsewhere

sending that message that we cater to malcontents is not in the Islanders best interests

 

[HockeyAnalystGenius]

Oilers would flip Yamahato for him.

 

[Go Wings]

A number is not just a number in this case. #66 is as universally associated with Lemieux as #99 is with Gretzky. The kid has a huge ego to choose that number. His ego is writing cheques his talent can’t cash

So what? Defensemen wear number 4 and 5 to honour Orr and Lidstrom forwards wear 19 to honour Yzerman and Sakic. It is just a number and has not been retired league wide like Gretzkys was.

 

[McRpro]

Oilers would flip Yamahato for him.

No they would not.

 

[Prairie Habs]

none of that has anything to do with hosang

those are issues with Snow and Doug Weight

it is not Ho Sangs responsibility to judge his coach or GM, thats why you have a problem youre confusing what Ho sang is reponsible for and what he isnt

they are separate issues.

if you cant understand that then youll never understand. thos issues are entirely the purview of Ledecky and Malkin the owners. and until they decide that Snow and Weight are not worth giving the Authority, Josh Ho Sang has no right to question their decisions

he signed the standard players contract, the terms of which are clear.

take your issues with Snow and Weight to ownership, the people with the responsibility to make those decisions. not Josh Ho Sang.

tell me, if you break your leg do you go to"joe the plumber" or to a doctor?

you know as well as i do, Ho Sang has no right to question his superiors and your blowing smoke to obfuscate the issue

A better comparison would be a med student or a doctor who is constantly committing malpractice.

I understand that authoritarianism makes life simple, but just because someone has a job doesn't mean they are doing it well.

 

[ole ole]

What part of no thanks goes over your head?

This is the first response back to the proposal.So how is no response up to date till yours is going over my head?

 

[ole ole]

Right? It's tough. He's got incredible skills and is built for the speed game the NHL currently has going for itself. He's an excellent playmaker. That's first round pick material. That being said, he's had a couple of seasons and while producing at the NHL level still needs work.

There's no good way for this to work out for the Islanders unless he's playing for them in the NHL. The odds of getting a top 6 forward in the mid 40's (someone would give up a 2nd for Ho-Sang) isn't a great %, especially for our franchise.

He'd have to be the 2nd part of a trade piece that would land us a top 6 forward or top 4 d, I guess (if that's possible).

Top mid 40's true but would 10 spots down work. Like say early 30's
Or would a player like Byron and one of the Habs later 2nd rounders be of interest?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

When the Islanders went into the toilet, he should've been called up. Literally who cares what he can do in a crappy pro league; give him a shot to sink or swim on the NHL roster. If he sinks, what do you have to lose? The season is lost anyway. And 90% of the time they swim.

That's a horrible way to develop players, though. Players are in the AHL for a reason (usually to work on various parts of their game that need improving). To just shrug it off and say, "Throw him into the NHL. If he fails, meh, who cares?" is silly because you're essentially saying who cares if a top prospect fails because we didn't properly fix the areas of his game that need fixing.

 

[93LEAFS]

Right? It's tough. He's got incredible skills and is built for the speed game the NHL currently has going for itself. He's an excellent playmaker. That's first round pick material. That being said, he's had a couple of seasons and while producing at the NHL level still needs work.

There's no good way for this to work out for the Islanders unless he's playing for them in the NHL. The odds of getting a top 6 forward in the mid 40's (someone would give up a 2nd for Ho-Sang) isn't a great %, especially for our franchise.

He'd have to be the 2nd part of a trade piece that would land us a top 6 forward or top 4 d, I guess (if that's possible).

Bergevin couldn't deal with Subban (who really wasn't a problem) and Julian had serious issues with Kessel and Seguin. I would love to see this marriage as a rival fan.

 

[Sniper99]

I’d love Ho Sang, Flames should make a pitch for him.

Why would you want that headache on your team. Hes not worth the time.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Oilers would flip Yamahato for him.

If the Oilers had a prospect named Yamahoto, they might.

They would definitely give the Isles back their 3rd in '19 for him though.

 

[Bood12]

Ho- Sang has a huge ego, I think he thinks he is going to be a superstar, but I do not think he is going to be any better than a 60 point a year guy, however I think most teams would like to have a 60 point guy on their team, if he works on his defense I think he could be a solid NHL player as long as he is going to accept he is not going to be in the elite which could be an issue for him

That's a horrible way to develop players, though. Players are in the AHL for a reason (usually to work on various parts of their game that need improving). To just shrug it off and say, "Throw him into the NHL. If he fails, meh, who cares?" is silly because you're essentially saying who cares if a top prospect fails because we didn't properly fix the areas of his game that need fixing.

but there was no purpose to send him down as long as they did, when the Islanders started falling apart he should have been called back up, a guy with his talent should only be sent to the minors if he is on a really good team and there was no room for him, the Islanders were and are playing practically useless guys like Chimera, Quine, Prince, and Fritz over him

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Ben Hutton for Ho-Sang+ mid round pick

 

[93LEAFS]

Ho- Sang has a huge ego, I think he thinks he is going to be a superstar, but I do not think he is going to be any better than a 60 point a year guy, however I think most teams would like to have a 60 point guy on their team, if he works on his defense I think he could be a solid NHL player as long as he is going to accept he is not going to be in the elite which could be an issue for him




but there was no purpose to send him down as long as they did, when the Islanders started falling apart he should have been called back up, a guy with his talent should only be sent to the minors if he is on a really good team and there was no room for him, the Islanders were and are playing practically useless guys like Chimera, Quine, Prince, and Fritz over him

If they sent him down to work on things, and he simply doesn't, why would they reward that type of behavior? He doesn't seemed to have changed much from the player he was in AAA. Which is, we have to play the Josh Ho-Sang way. Then, he starts hitting out at people saying they are mismanaging him. He did the same thing with Hockey Canada and the Spitfires.

 

[JKinCLE]

He needs a nice dose of Tortorella.

I'd offer former 1st rd pick Gabriel Carlsson + 3rd for Ho-sang.

 

[Bood12]

If they sent him down to work on things, and he simply doesn't, why would they reward that type of behavior? He doesn't seemed to have changed much from the player he was in AAA. Which is, we have to play the Josh Ho-Sang way. Then, he starts hitting out at people saying they are mismanaging him. He did the same thing with Hockey Canada and the Spitfires.

to be honest I wasn't in favor of sending him down, maybe have him ride the press box for a few games, a guy of his talent should be at the NHL level, when things started falling apart for the Islanders that is when the management should have realized it is better to have him here, I am guessing the management did not want to look bad in sending Ho-Sang down while the rest of the team was playing like crap so they kept him in the AHL to save their own face, Ho-Sang is pretty much 100% spot on with his comments, however I am not sure he should have said it, especially calling out his teammates, to me when he basically called out his teammates that is his way of saying "trade me" because I do not see how he is able to share a locker room with them again.

 

[93LEAFS]

to be honest I wasn't in favor of sending him down, maybe have him ride the press box for a few games, a guy of his talent should be at the NHL level, when things started falling apart for the Islanders that is when the management should have realized it is better to have him here, I am guessing the management did not want to look bad in sending Ho-Sang down while the rest of the team was playing like crap so they kept him in the AHL to save their own face, Ho-Sang is pretty much 100% spot on with his comments, however I am not sure he should have said it, especially calling out his teammates, to me when he basically called out his teammates that is his way of saying "trade me" because I do not see how he is able to share a locker room with them again.

Its not like he is excelling or showing he is way above the AHL level while there. At a certain point, management has to draw a line in the sand if they want him to improve at his weaknesses that he has shown for over 5 years he has no interest in fixing. You don't hold vets to that standard because you know what they are.

The only young Leaf of the big 3 who hasn't been given similar treatment by the Leafs at times is Matthews. We've cut Marner and Nylanders ice-time even when they were still outplaying vets above them. But, its in the interest in developing them long-term, and they seem to get the message pretty quick. Ho-Sang has had the same stuff told to him by the Spits, Hockey Canada, Ice Dogs, Bridgeport and the Isles, and still shows no real interest in improving these weaknesses. I don't think any organization that wants to be successful would tolerate this.

 

[rent free]

yes it shows that Garth has learned from his mistakes vis a vis Nino

No it snows the opposite. The fact that he hasn't dealt with it proves he shouldn't be extended even more.

 

[PROMputt]

Its not like he is excelling or showing he is way above the AHL level while there. At a certain point, management has to draw a line in the sand if they want him to improve at his weaknesses that he has shown for over 5 years he has no interest in fixing. You don't hold vets to that standard because you know what they are.

The only young Leaf of the big 3 who hasn't been given similar treatment by the Leafs at times is Matthews. We've cut Marner and Nylanders ice-time even when they were still outplaying vets above them. But, its in the interest in developing them long-term, and they seem to get the message pretty quick. Ho-Sang has had the same stuff told to him by the Spits, Hockey Canada, Ice Dogs, Bridgeport and the Isles, and still shows no real interest in improving these weaknesses. I don't think any organization that wants to be successful would tolerate this.

His point total is suppressed because he is playing on the checking 3rd line(I guess this is the Islanders way of teaching him the Defensive side of the game). I am of the belief that I hope he is not traded, Snowjob is fired and he get a fresh start with a new GM

 

[93LEAFS]

His point total is suppressed because he is playing on the checking 3rd line(I guess this is the Islanders way of teaching him the Defensive side of the game). I am of the belief that I hope he is not traded, Snowjob is fired and he get a fresh start with a new GM

You have to wonder how many GM's from outside organizations want to give him a chance. There's a reason he was on a bunch of teams no draft list. I think he might last a day if Lou was your GM.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

but there was no purpose to send him down as long as they did, when the Islanders started falling apart he should have been called back up, a guy with his talent should only be sent to the minors if he is on a really good team and there was no room for him, the Islanders were and are playing practically useless guys like Chimera, Quine, Prince, and Fritz over him

But that's an entirely different discussion (ie. Snow's ability to build a decent roster). Whether you agree with it or not, the Isles felt Ho-Sang's free-wheeling, do his own thing type of game needed to be reined in and he needed to work on playing more within a structured game. They sent him down to BP to do just that. From what it seems, he's still having issues doing what they want him to do. So why should he be called up?

It's no different than the situation with Pittsburgh and Daniel Sprong. Offensively, Sprong's proving he should get a call up. But it's the stuff AWAY from the puck they want him to work on before calling him up full-time.

So again, whether you agree with Weight or Snow or their philosophy, if they said "I want you to work on not turning over the puck as much and be more consistent in your defensive responsibilities" and Ho-Sang hasn't done that to their standards, then why would he get called up just because Tanner Fritz sucks? Tanner Fritz sucking is an entirely different issue than bringing back up a flawed Ho-Sang who didn't make strides where they wanted him to.

 

[72hockey guy]

If they sent him down to work on things, and he simply doesn't, why would they reward that type of behavior? He doesn't seemed to have changed much from the player he was in AAA. Which is, we have to play the Josh Ho-Sang way. Then, he starts hitting out at people saying they are mismanaging him. He did the same thing with Hockey Canada and the Spitfires.

youre absolutely correct, the last thing you want to do is reward that behavior. you do that and all your prospects start dictating terms. you draft a player and he says I dont want to play for you trade me to Boston.....you cant let a player dictate what he will or wont do, because then it becomes anarchy and trust me if one guy gets away with it, more WILL follow

 

[72hockey guy]

But that's an entirely different discussion (ie. Snow's ability to build a decent roster). Whether you agree with it or not, the Isles felt Ho-Sang's free-wheeling, do his own thing type of game needed to be reined in and he needed to work on playing more within a structured game. They sent him down to BP to do just that. From what it seems, he's still having issues doing what they want him to do. So why should he be called up?

It's no different than the situation with Pittsburgh and Daniel Sprong. Offensively, Sprong's proving he should get a call up. But it's the stuff AWAY from the puck they want him to work on before calling him up full-time.

So again, whether you agree with Weight or Snow or their philosophy, if they said "I want you to work on not turning over the puck as much and be more consistent in your defensive responsibilities" and Ho-Sang hasn't done that to their standards, then why would he get called up just because Tanner Fritz sucks? Tanner Fritz sucking is an entirely different issue than bringing back up a flawed Ho-Sang who didn't make strides where they wanted him to.

absolutely correct
.
they are two entirely separate issues in my mind. Snow could be the worst GM in hockey, but it doesnt give any player the right to be insubbordinate,, The fact that this has occured wherever Ho Sang has been, says this is not a Garth Snow issue, but a Josh Ho Sang issue.

Anyone who tries to place the blame on Snow or Weight are deliberately obfuscating the issue.

players are sent down to work on their shortcomings every season and im 100% percent certain that not a single one of yhem wishes to be, but they go because they have to. the moment you start letting them question the system and kowtowing to their demands, the development of prospects ceases to exist

to me there is no excuse. you earn what you get. no personal sense of entitlement should get you anything

this has nothing to do with Snow

this has nothing to do with Weight

this has everything to do with Ho Sangs belief that the rules Shouldnt apply to him