HFNYR Top 10 Centers in Rangers History

[Crease]

This is the final list of the top centers in New York Rangers franchise history, as determined by the New York Rangers community at HFBoards:

NOTE: Please report any errors via PM to Crease

Top 10 Centers in Rangers History
[table="head;title=list"]Rank|No.|Player|Height|Weight|Born|Died|Tenure|Birthplace
1 | 7 | Frank Boucher | 5'9 | 185 | 10/7/1901 | 12/12/1977 | 1926-1938; 1944 | Ottawa, Ontario
2 | 11 | Mark Messier | 6'2 | 211 | 1/18/1961 | | 1991-1997; 2000-2004 | Edmonton, Alberta
3 | 19 | Jean Ratelle | 6'1 | 175 | 10/3/1940 | | 1960-1975 | Lac St. Jean, Quebec
4 | 6 | Neil Colville | 5'11 | 175 | 8/4/1914 | 12/26/1987 | 1935-1942; 1944-1949 | Edmonton, Alberta
5 | 7 | Phil Watson | 5'11 | 165 | 4/24/1914 | 2/1/1991 | 1935-1943; 1944-1948 | Montreal, Quebec
6 | 18 | Walt Tkaczuk | 6'0 | 185 | 9/29/1947 | | 1968-1981 | Emsdetten, Germany
7 | 10 | Edgar Laprade | 5'8 | 160 | 10/19/1919 | | 1945-1955 | Port Arthur, Ontario
8 | 7 | Don Raleigh | 5'11 | 150 | 6/27/1926 | 8/21/2012 | 1943-1944; 1947-1956 | Kenora, Ontario
9 | 5 | Buddy O'Connor | 5'8 | 142 | 6/21/1916 | 8/24/1977 | 1947-1951 | Montreal, Quebec
T-10 | 77 | Phil Esposito | 6'1 | 205 | 2/20/1942 | | 1975-1981 | Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
T-10 | 99 | Wayne Gretzky | 6'0 | 185 | 1/26/1961 | | 1996-1999 | Brantford, Ontario
[/table]
​

Links to all of the discussion threads that went into making this list:
Round 2 Voting Results
Round 2, Vote 1 Discussion
Round 2, Vote 2 Discussion

Links to the preliminary discussion threads before voters submitted their lists:
Rules Discussion
Preliminary & General Discussion

Link to the aggregate list that formed the basis of Round 2 discussion. This data was released at the end of the project:
Round 1 Voting Results

Listed here are the individual voting records of the participants:
bernmeister
Cake or Death
Chief
Crease
Greg02
mike14
ratelleitlikeitis
Richter Scale

Click to read more...

 

[Crease]

Here are the results of Vote 1. There were 8 of a possible 8 voters in this round.

[table="head;title=vote"]Player|Total|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th|10th
Frank Boucher | 78 | 6 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0
Mark Messier | 72 | 2 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0
Jean Ratelle | 66 | 0 | 2 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0
Neil Colville | 48 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0
Phil Watson | 45 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 5 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0
Walt Tkaczuk | 42 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0
Phil Esposito | 30 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 3 | 4 | 0 | 0
Buddy O'Connor | 22 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 2
Don Raleigh | 20 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 3
Clint Smith | 17 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 3
[/table]​

Here are the results of Vote 2. There were 8 of a possible 8 voters in this round.

[table="head;title=vote"]Player|Total|6th|7th|8th|9th|10th|11th|12th|NR
Walt Tkaczuk | 53 | 6 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0
Edgar Laprade | 43 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1
Don Raleigh | 32 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0
Buddy O'Connor | 27 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0
Wayne Gretzky | 25 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 1
Phil Esposito | 25 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 5 | 0 | 0
Clint Smith | 14 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 5 | 0
Phil Goyette | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 7
Ron Duguay | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 7
[/table]​

 

[Cake or Death]

Sweet. Thanks again!

 

[Greg02]

In case anyone else is as dumb as I am and can't figure it out just by looking, the point values are 10 for a first place vote and 1 for a 10th place vote. You don't need to solve Linear Diophantine Equations, nor do you need to do Gaussian elimination.

._.

 

[Crease]

We never decided what to do in the event of a points tie, so naturally there ended up being a tie between Gretzky and Esposito.

 

[mike14]

We never decided what to do in the event of a points tie, so naturally there ended up being a tie between Gretzky and Esposito.

Ha, of course that would happen! IMO Gretz would win the 10th spot has he had more people vote him into the top 10 (6 to 3), but as you say, we didn't have a system so it's irrelevant.

 

[Greg02]

I think it's fitting that in the end, Espo and Gretzky tied for 10th. Their achievements were very comparable.

Looking over this list, I think we got it right for the most part. Certainly, I don't think anyone's about to be making a convincing argument that someone is terribly misplaced.

It was a pleasure discussing this with all of you. I'm looking forward to the next project already

 

[Cake or Death]

I think it's fitting that in the end, Espo and Gretzky tied for 10th. Their achievements were very comparable.

Looking over this list, I think we got it right for the most part. Certainly, I don't think anyone's about to be making a convincing argument that someone is terribly misplaced.

It was a pleasure discussing this with all of you. I'm looking forward to the next project already

Wholly agree. Looking forward to our debate of the top 10 songs of the 1950s. Would like to see Sinatra's adjusted stats.

 

[Chief]

Espo will never get a fair shake from most Ranger fans.

 

[mike14]

Wholly agree. Looking forward to our debate of the top 10 songs of the 1950s. Would like to see Sinatra's adjusted stats.

Can't even see how you can have sinatra in the same discussion as Berry and Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis

Seriously, really enjoyed doing this and learning a lot about some old blushirts. Many thanks to all for the great info posted throughout the threads

 

[Cake or Death]

Can't even see how you can have sinatra in the same discussion as Berry and Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis

Tough to say... strong rumors those three were using performance enhancing drugs

 

[*Bob Richards*]

I've seen only one of these guys play lol.

 

[haohmaru]

Well... if this doesn't sum up why the NY Rangers haven't been a historically successful franchise than nothing will. Taking nothing away from these guys, but this list vs. any other original 6 team and we've a long legacy of being weak up the middle. Especially, post 1945. Jean Ratelle and Mark Messier are the only two true #1 centers with any kind of tenure on the team. I mean, you can throw Espo in there, I guess, and sprinkle a couple of years of Gretzky but that doesn't change the fact that post WWII, we've homegrown ONE legitimate first line center that played for us for any significant length of time.

And there you have it.

 

[Cake or Death]

Well... if this doesn't sum up why the NY Rangers haven't been a historically successful franchise than nothing will. Taking nothing away from these guys, but this list vs. any other original 6 team and we've a long legacy of being weak up the middle. Especially, post 1945. Jean Ratelle and Mark Messier are the only two true #1 centers with any kind of tenure on the team. I mean, you can throw Espo in there, I guess, and sprinkle a couple of years of Gretzky but that doesn't change the fact that post WWII, we've homegrown ONE legitimate first line center that played for us for any significant length of time.

And there you have it.

I don't think any of us voting were overly thrilled with Gretzky in the top 10. But from our start list, there really is an absolute log jam of centers who have played only 4, 5, 6 seasons with us.

 

[haohmaru]

Honestly, would've liked to have seen a healthy Ulf Nilsson play a number of more years with the Rangers and Doug Weight is another guy I would've liked to have seen spend his career here.

 

[Chief]

Don't forget The Ridler, Mike Ridley!

 

[Richter Scale]

Thanks for putting this together Crease; as with everyone else on this project, I had a blast. Can't wait for the next one -- my vote would go for D-men or Goalies next.

I think it's fitting that in the end, Espo and Gretzky tied for 10th. Their achievements were very comparable.

Looking over this list, I think we got it right for the most part. Certainly, I don't think anyone's about to be making a convincing argument that someone is terribly misplaced.

It was a pleasure discussing this with all of you. I'm looking forward to the next project already

I'll second this.

Honestly, would've liked to have seen a healthy Ulf Nilsson play a number of more years with the Rangers and Doug Weight is another guy I would've liked to have seen spend his career here.

Agreed on both counts. Actually threw Nilsson near (in?) my top 10 on the original vote for this project. Think I overvalued him a bit on the initial vote; but he was certainly a great player. Crease said he might release all of the individual votes to give people interested a sense of how things shook out and evolved as the project progressed -- might be interesting to see where others had Ulf and some of the other names not in this top 10.

The whole thing really was eye opening in just how much this organization has lacked any sort of stability in its lineup down the middle in the past several decades.

I've seen only one of these guys play lol.

Which one? Mess I assume? Really wasn't even the same player that he once was on his second stint here.

 

[*Bob Richards*]

Which one? Mess I assume? Really wasn't even the same player that he once was on his second stint here.

Yup. I was real young and he was clearly not that same by that point. I was too young to really comprehend the stories of glory that he'd share about Mess.

The best Center I've seen this team have is like........Stepan lol.

 

[Crease]

bernmeister[table="head;title=list"]Rank | Player
1 | Frank Boucher
2 | Jean Ratelle
3 | Walt Tkaczuk
4 | Mark Messier
5 | Don Raleigh
6 | Earl Ingarfield
7 | Clint Smith
8 | Ron Duguay
9 | Ulf Nilsson
10 | Phil Esposito
11 | Kelly Kisio
12 | Mike Rogers
13 | Sergei Nemchinov
[/table]


[table="head;title=list"]Round | Rank 1 | Rank 2 | Rank 3 | Rank 4 | Rank 5 | Rank 6 | Rank 7 | Rank 8 | Rank 9 | Rank 10
Vote 1 | Boucher | Ratelle | Messier | Tkaczuk | Raleigh | Colville | Watson | Esposito | O'Connor | Smith
Vote 2 | Tkaczuk | Laprade | Raleigh | O'Connor | Smith | Esposito | Duguay |
[/table]
​

 

[Crease]

Crease[table="head;title=list"]Rank | Player
1 | Frank Boucher
2 | Mark Messier
3 | Jean Ratelle
4 | Neil Colville
5 | Camille Henry
6 | Phil Watson
7 | Buddy O'Connor
8 | Walt Tkaczuk
9 | Edgar Laprade
10 | Wayne Gretzky
11 | Clint Smith
12 | Phil Esposito
13 | Don Raleigh
14 | Phil Goyette
15 | Ron Duguay
16 | Peter Stemkowsi
17 | Peter Nedved
18 | Red Sullivan
19 | Kelly Kisio
20 | Sergei Nemchinov
[/table]


[table="head;title=list"]Round | Rank 1 | Rank 2 | Rank 3 | Rank 4 | Rank 5 | Rank 6 | Rank 7 | Rank 8 | Rank 9 | Rank 10
Vote 1 | Boucher | Messer | Ratelle | Colville | Watson | Tkaczuk | Esposito | O'Connor | Raleigh | Smith
Vote 2 | Tkaczuk | Raleigh | Laprade | Gretzky | O'Connor | Esposito | Smith
[/table]
​

 

[Crease]

Cake or Death[table="head;title=list"]Rank | Player
1 | Frank Boucher
2 | Mark Messier
3 | Neil Colville
4 | Phil Watson
5 | Jean Ratelle
6 | Camille Henry
7 | Buddy O'Connor
8 | Wayne Gretzky
9 | Walt Tkaczuk
10 | Clint Smith
11 | Phil Esposito
12 | Don Raleigh
13 | Edgar Laprade
14 | Ron Duguay
15 | Pete Stemkowski
16 | Mark Pavelich
17 | Pierre Larouche
18 | Dave Creighton
19 | Phil Goyette
20 | Mike Rogers
[/table]


[table="head;title=list"]Round | Rank 1 | Rank 2 | Rank 3 | Rank 4 | Rank 5 | Rank 6 | Rank 7 | Rank 8 | Rank 9 | Rank 10
Vote 1 | Boucher | Messier | Ratelle | Colville | Watson | Tkaczuk | O'Connor | Esposito | Smith | Raleigh
Vote 2 | Tkaczuk | Laprade | Raleigh | Gretzky | O'Connor | Esposito | Smith
[/table]
​

 

[Crease]

Chief[table="head;title=list"]Rank | Player
1 | Mark Messier
2 | Frank Boucher
3 | Jean Ratelle
4 | Neil Colville
5 | Phil Esposito
6 | Phil Goyette
7 | Buddy O'Connor
8 | Phil Watson
9 | Clint Smith
10 | Wayne Gretzky
11 | Walt Tkaczuk
12 | Camille Henry
13 | Don Raleigh
14 | Earl Ingarfield
15 | Edgar Laprade
16 | Red Sullivan
17 | Mike Rogers
18 | Paul Ronty
19 | Ron Duguay
20 | Mark Pavelich
[/table]


[table="head;title=list"]Round | Rank 1 | Rank 2 | Rank 3 | Rank 4 | Rank 5 | Rank 6 | Rank 7 | Rank 8 | Rank 9 | Rank 10
Vote 1 | Messier | Boucher | Ratelle | Colville | Watson | Smith | O'Connor | Esposito | Tkaczuk | Raleigh
Vote 2 | Laprade | Esposito | Tkaczuk | O'Connor | Smith | Gretzky | Raleigh
[/table]
​

 

[Crease]

Greg02[table="head;title=list"]Rank | Player
1 | Frank Boucher
2 | Mark Messier
3 | Jean Ratelle
4 | Neil Colville
5 | Walt Tkaczuk
6 | Edgar Laprade
7 | Camille Henry
8 | Buddy O'Connor
9 | Phil Watson
10 | Clint Smith
11 | Phil Esposito
12 | Don Raleigh
13 | Phil Goyette
14 | Ulf Nilsson
15 | Wayne Gretzky
16 | Earl Ingarfield
17 | Ron Duguay
18 | Mark Pavelich
19 | Kelly Kisio
20 | Ab DeMarco
[/table]


[table="head;title=list"]Round | Rank 1 | Rank 2 | Rank 3 | Rank 4 | Rank 5 | Rank 6 | Rank 7 | Rank 8 | Rank 9 | Rank 10
Vote 1 | Boucher | Messier | Ratelle | Colville | Watson | Tkaczuk | O'Connor | Esposito | Smith | Raleigh
Vote 2 | Laprade | Tkaczuk | O'Connor | Raleigh | Gretzky | Esposito | Smith
[/table]
​

 

[Crease]

mike14[table="head;title=list"]Rank | Player
1 | Jean Ratelle
2 | Frank Boucher
3 | Mark Messier
4 | Phil Esposito
5 | Walt Tkaczuk
6 | Phil Watson
7 | Phil Goyette
8 | Don Raleigh
9 | Neil Colville
10 | Buddy O'Connor
11 | Ron Duguay
12 | Edgar Laprade
13 | Clint Smith
14 | Wayne Gretzky
15 | Peter Nedved
16 | Darren Turcotte
17 | Mike Rogers
18 | Mark Pavelich
19 | Kelly Kisio
20 | Pete Stemkowski
[/table]


[table="head;title=list"]Round | Rank 1 | Rank 2 | Rank 3 | Rank 4 | Rank 5 | Rank 6 | Rank 7 | Rank 8 | Rank 9 | Rank 10
Vote 1 | Boucher | Ratelle | Messier | Watson | Tkaczuk | Colville | Esposito | O'Connor | Raleigh | Smith
Vote 2 | Tkaczuk | Laprade | O'Connor | Gretzky | Esposito | Smith
[/table]
​

 

[Crease]

ratelleitlikeitis[table="head;title=list"]Rank | Player
1 | Jean Ratelle
2 | Mark Messier
3 | Frank Boucher
4 | Walt Tkachuk
5 | Buddy O'Connor
6 | Phil Goyette
7 | Ulf Nilsson
8 | Wayne Gretzky
9 | Phil Esposito
10 | Mike Rogers
11 | Mark Pavelich
12 | Bernie Nicholls
13 | Eric Lindros
14 | Kelly Kisio
15 | Darren Turcotte
16 | Don Raleigh
17 | Ron Duguay
18 | Peter Stemkowski
19 | Camille Henry
20 | Neil Colville
[/table]


[table="head;title=list"]Round | Rank 1 | Rank 2 | Rank 3 | Rank 4 | Rank 5 | Rank 6 | Rank 7 | Rank 8 | Rank 9 | Rank 10
Vote 1 | Messier | Boucher | Ratelle | Tkaczuk | Esposito | Raleigh | Watson | Colville | Smith | O'Connor
Vote 2 | Tkaczuk | Gretzky | Esposito | Goyette | Smith | O'Connor | Raleigh
[/table]
​