HFBoards TOP 50 Prospect Ranking: #19 (closed)

[Polar Bear]

K’Andre has never done a single thing in hockey to be better than Ty Smith minus be bigger and more athletic.

He isnt even ahead of Sandin either

I'd rank Smith ahead of Miller, but it's silly to argue that they aren't on relatively similar levels. K'Andre had historically one of the best offensive seasons for a freshman d-man player in the NCAA. not to mention he's bigger and more athletic as you mentioned.

 

[Xirik]

Evan Bouchard is already ranked but not Ty Smith.

 

[Not Canada Drai]

Youre right, he should be lower!

I realize you're trying to be edgy but I'm not sure how a dude who's lighting it up like Evan is so low on this list. I realize Oilers prospects seem to not pan out besides a select few but he's been monstrous.

 

[Uncle Dru]

Why would that be? If K’Andre plays in such a stronger league then he should, in theory, make the jump first no?

Ty was the last cut for the Devils last year and the main reason being expansion draft. He was good enough to make the team at 18. I doubt K’Andre made it past the second round of cuts but IDK the specifics.

Miller only started playing D at some point in High School. He was always going to need more time to develop

 

[Isaac Nootin]

I realize you're trying to be edgy but I'm not sure how a dude who's lighting it up like Evan is so low on this list. I realize Oilers prospects seem to not pan out besides a select few but he's been monstrous.

Offensively monstrous. Defensively atrocious.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

I'd rank Smith ahead of Miller, but it's silly to argue that they aren't on relatively similar levels. K'Andre had historically one of the best offensive seasons for a freshman d-man player in the NCAA. not to mention he's bigger and more athletic as you mentioned.

But can he be? Miller was drafted at 22 and seen as a raw prospect (which tends to me you pick him earlier banking on higher than suspected potential) so one would assume he went higher than youd expect (not by a lot though). Whereas Smith was the opposite, he was ranked anywhere from better than Quinn to right behind him and Dobson - so he was considered to have gone late and to have been a possible steal for NJ.

I get K’Andre can be a steal too but I guess my point is I see them in seperate tiers as prospects because one is a safer, proven high-end pick who fell while the other is more raw and only starting the last few years to shine and rise to the 1st round.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Miller only started playing D at some point in High School. He was always going to need more time to develop

Fair point, hadn’t realized he was a Sam Darnold-esque story

 

[cgf]

But can he be? Miller was drafted at 22 and seen as a raw prospect (which tends to me you pick him earlier banking on higher than suspected potential) so one would assume he went higher than youd expect (not by a lot though). Whereas Smith was the opposite, he was ranked anywhere from better than Quinn to right behind him and Dobson - so he was considered to have gone late and to have been a possible steal for NJ.

I get K’Andre can be a steal too but I guess my point is I see them in seperate tiers as prospects because one is a safer, proven high-end pick who fell while the other is more raw and only starting the last few years to shine and rise to the 1st round.

He's not proven high-end until we see how much of his game translates to the NHL.

If it makes you feel better, I have similar concerns about Byram's offense translating...although that doesn't worry too much since we have Cale to drive that pairing.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

He's not proven high-end until we see how much of his game translates to the NHL.

I didnt mean proven as in a proven NHL player, I meant hes been a surefire 1st round pick and a higher end of the round at that for a few years while K’Andre rose to the 1st round and some even still had him pegged for the 2nd round on draft day. Nobody had Smith in the 2nd.

Thats all that was meant to be

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

I realize you're trying to be edgy but I'm not sure how a dude who's lighting it up like Evan is so low on this list. I realize Oilers prospects seem to not pan out besides a select few but he's been monstrous.

Because hes seen as a strictly-offensive defenseman and he isnt necessarily blowing other defensive prospects out of the water with his numbers - guys like Dobson and Smith are putting up big numbers while being much steadier in the defensive end

 

[cgf]

I didnt mean proven as in a proven NHL player, I meant hes been a surefire 1st round pick and a higher end of the round at that for a few years while K’Andre rose to the 1st round and some even still had him pegged for the 2nd round on draft day. Nobody had Smith in the 2nd.

Thats all that was meant to be

Not for everyone, you're talking about consensus lists as though individual scouts and us nerds don't have violent contrasting list beyond the first 5-10, each year. There were those of us who were high on K'Andre and had him as a clear 1st round talent even at the start of his draft year. I made posts back when it was thought that our pick would be super high and the ottawa 1st would be later in the 1st, where I was hoping to land K'Andre with that Ottawa pick.

And there most certainly were folks who were skeptical of Smith's game translating as more than a 4/5 tweener who can do a decent job of moving the puck but lacks that special ability to drive offense at the NHL level and that his defensive prowess will be minimized against bigger & more talented players who can skate with him.

Like I mentioned in the edit to my previous post, I have similar concerns about Byram...who's a rich man's Smith in a lot of ways...'s offensive ceiling. Even if Makar's presence ensures that I'm not too worried by my doubts about whether Byram will ever be more than ~40 point guy.

 

[Not Canada Drai]

Offensively monstrous. Defensively atrocious.

Atrocious is a bit harsh. I think he'll surprise people on how it's improved. It's not like we call Karlsson one of the best defenseman in the game or anything and his defensive game is lacking. Same with Burns, which is even worse.

 

[Not Canada Drai]

Because hes seen as a strictly-offensive defenseman and he isnt necessarily blowing other defensive prospects out of the water with his numbers - guys like Dobson and Smith are putting up big numbers while being much steadier in the defensive end

I don't think Dobson and Smith are that far above him in the defensive zone. We just have to wait until all these guys make the NHL and have a career (or don't) to really see their impact.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

I don't think Dobson and Smith are that far above him in the defensive zone. We just have to wait until all these guys make the NHL and have a career (or don't) to really see their impact.

Not wrong!

 

[Polar Bear]

But can he be? Miller was drafted at 22 and seen as a raw prospect (which tends to me you pick him earlier banking on higher than suspected potential) so one would assume he went higher than youd expect (not by a lot though). Whereas Smith was the opposite, he was ranked anywhere from better than Quinn to right behind him and Dobson - so he was considered to have gone late and to have been a possible steal for NJ.

I get K’Andre can be a steal too but I guess my point is I see them in seperate tiers as prospects because one is a safer, proven high-end pick who fell while the other is more raw and only starting the last few years to shine and rise to the 1st round.

First of all, K'Andre was drafted pretty much in his rage, as he was viewed as a late teens - mid 20s selection, so I don't understand that point even if he was a bit more raw as a prospect but with higher upside. Second, draft position kind of goes out the window after a season is under these prospects' belts and we can judge them in their D+1 seasons. Smith had an excellent D+1 season and likely has a higher floor than Miller. Miller also has an excellent D+1 season and likely has a higher ceiling than Smith. So once again, as I argued earlier, while I'd still rank Smith ahead of Miller as of now, the argument they aren't close just isn't one I personally buy.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Don't mind me, I'll just keep voting Wahlstrom for the next month or so.

 

[Ricklongisland]

Caufield add Poehling he had a great close to the season.

 

[Just Linda]

Atrocious is a bit harsh. I think he'll surprise people on how it's improved. It's not like we call Karlsson one of the best defenseman in the game or anything and his defensive game is lacking. Same with Burns, which is even worse.

Bouchard though doesn't have the offensive upside of Karlsson. Also, Karlsson's defensive woes are overstated but that's a different debate altogether.

If I had to take the top 3 defensemen on the list and compare them to Bouchard, all 3 are closer to the NHL than Bouchard. Bouchard has the highest offensive ceiling but he's also got the highest bust potential of any Dman on that list not named Broberg.

He's got a lot of potential but so so far to go before he's even usable. Everytime I've watched him, I've left unimpressed at his decision making and ability to handle pressure.

I also haven't been overly impressed with his ability to lead a breakout but yeah.

Comparing Bouchard to Brook, Smith, and Sandin and you see a player who possibly has more upside but also has more red flags than those 3 players combined. I'm convinced he's either going to be a great player of Nurse's level (2-3d) or will be a bust. The other players I listed could all either turn into really good dmen or stagnate as just food dmen imho.

 

[Llamamoto]

Bouchard though doesn't have the offensive upside of Karlsson. Also, Karlsson's defensive woes are overstated but that's a different debate altogether.

If I had to take the top 3 defensemen on the list and compare them to Bouchard, all 3 are closer to the NHL than Bouchard. Bouchard has the highest offensive ceiling but he's also got the highest bust potential of any Dman on that list not named Broberg.

He's got a lot of potential but so so far to go before he's even usable. Everytime I've watched him, I've left unimpressed at his decision making and ability to handle pressure.

I also haven't been overly impressed with his ability to lead a breakout but yeah.

Comparing Bouchard to Brook, Smith, and Sandin and you see a player who possibly has more upside but also has more red flags than those 3 players combined. I'm convinced he's either going to be a great player of Nurse's level (2-3d) or will be a bust. The other players I listed could all either turn into really good dmen or stagnate as just food dmen imho.

I think Bouchard does have Burns offensive upside. He's a far worse skater than Karlsson, and maybe a touch less creative, but his shot and ability to generate rebounds both project to be quite a bit better.

Also, his decision making in the offensive zone is amazing. His calmness and ability to handle pressure are insane. I don't know where you got that from. Also, his breakout pass is amazing.

As for Broberg, he doesn't have high bust potential at all. His defensive game, size, and skating will all make him at least a #4. If his offence continues to develop, he can become a top pairing defensemen. So I can understand saying that his upside is limited, but he definitely doesn't have high bust potential.

And I don't get why people are so against us voting for Broberg. If this is based on NHL readiness, then it isn't Broberg, but he was the highest drafted player here other than Cozens and Seider. Big, smooth skating defensemen are a commodity in today's NHL.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Turcotte at #6 makes no sense imo


and where is Knight in that ? he should be top 15

 

[thadd]

jesus christ.... within minutes the Oiler homers are voting Broberg.

anyway, still going with Batherson, then Frost, Cozens, Smith, Sandin, Hayton,

Before last season I wasn't all that vocal about Bouchard, but he sold me over last season. I was happy when we drafted him and didn't expect him to be available at 10th.
I was much higher on Broberg when we drafted him than I was on Bouchard when we drafted him, so it's really not a homer thing. Great size, insane all around skating and he's got the toolbox and the hockey IQ to be very effective in all 3 zones.

Everyone thought Edmonton was going to draft one of over half a dozen forwards who put a ton of points up on the same team, which can be kinda risky. I'm obviously very much sold on Hughes and Turcotte, but I feel very hesitant to judge a lot of the other players that went from that US team in the first round. Surely some of them will turn out, but I'll be shocked if at least 2 of them don't turn out to flunk in the NHL and turn out to be a product of their environment like Sam Gagner was with Pat Kane.

 

[thadd]

I think Bouchard does have Burns offensive upside. He's a far worse skater than Karlsson, and maybe a touch less creative, but his shot and ability to generate rebounds both project to be quite a bit better.

Also, his decision making in the offensive zone is amazing. His calmness and ability to handle pressure are insane. I don't know where you got that from. Also, his breakout pass is amazing.

As for Broberg, he doesn't have high bust potential at all. His defensive game, size, and skating will all make him at least a #4. If his offence continues to develop, he can become a top pairing defensemen. So I can understand saying that his upside is limited, but he definitely doesn't have high bust potential.

And I don't get why people are so against us voting for Broberg. If this is based on NHL readiness, then it isn't Broberg, but he was the highest drafted player here other than Cozens and Seider. Big, smooth skating defensemen are a commodity in today's NHL.

And to be fair there were a TON of HFoil fans crossing their fingers that Edmonton didn't draft Cozens. Cozens hockey IQ was in serious doubt by the majority of the fanbase for well over half a year before the draft.

 

[amnesiac]

Last bump

 

[Sasso09]

I love Caufield but no way he should be going above Cozens or Frost. They're the clear next two

 

[chewbaccaman]

Smith quite easily for me