Player Discussion Henrik Lundqvist: Part III

[NYSPORTS]

No, I did not. I said it's not what I would do - I would trade Georgiev but if that's not on the table and there's no deal to be made then the next move is buying him out. The LAST thing I do is keep him and the other two guys around for another year of that nonsense.

In order of preference: trade Georgiev, trade Lundqvist, buyout Lundqvist. One of them HAS to happen.

lol, again with the semantics. You didn’t want a buyout and now you do. Just as when Hank gives up a “soft goal” you argue about it before labeling the goal as “savable”.

stop already

 

[haohmaru]

all along i wanted Hank to waive his NTC b/c this was/is a rebuild. Been saying this since the letter went out

if Hank wants to play elsewhere, let’s work something out. He’s done here.

I’m not allowing his contract to dictate moving out either of the other two goalies so Hank can hang out for another year.

If Hank decides not to waive his NTC, resulting in the Rangers losing an ADA b/c he wants to simply remain a Ranger and play elsewhere in the NHL next season, no i’m not dressing him.

That’s it. I’m not buying him out.

The Rangers aren't going to do that. If Georgiev isn't traded then it's a Lundqvist trade or a Lundqvist buyout. They aren't going to be vindictive, when they have to little cap space as it is, towards a guy that is/was the face of the franchise for 15 years. Not going to happen. You can want it to happen (but, then I really have to question why you're making this personal when it just hurts the NYR), but it's not going to.

 

[haohmaru]

lol, again with the semantics. You didn’t want a buyout and now you do. Just as when Hank gives up a “soft goal” you argue about it before labeling the goal as “savable”.

stop already

It's not the case. I would prefer a Georgiev trade but if that's not going to happen, then a Hank trade or a Hank buyout. That's not semantics, that's in order of preference. Because I'd rather trade Georgiev doesn't mean that that's the only choice. It's certainly smarter than paying him to sit on his ass and signing another goalie. If anyone should "stop", it's you.

You don't know what a "soft goal" is. Still.

 

[NYSPORTS]

I'm still confused,

You want to sign ADA, you want to keep Geo (we agree there)

Yet you would not want the 3M in cap space towards doing so that a Lundqvist buyout would provide? (this is where we disagree)

If the idea is to threaten Lundqvist into retiring with the street clothes thing, and if he will not retire to have less cap space for the off-season thus likely hampering the Rangers in some other facet, I think it's a bad idea strategically and probably falls within the realm of poor business ethics.

why is perceived to be so wrong putting Hank in street clothes?

it’s not a threat. The Rangers are literally dressing the starters around him while he sits the bench. He’s not playing anyway. What’s the point?

Hank doesn’t have a position here. He’s not the #1 an he’s not the #2. He’s the #3. Some posters keep defending his stats vs Georgiev and dismissing other stats. Doesn’t matter, Hank is the #3.

Does Hank want to play hockey or retire? That’s it. We’ll figure something out if he wants to play and if he wants to retire then do it.

I’m not buying him out to kick dead money down the road with this shrinking cap.

Unfortunately the Rangers will have to navigate to fit the pieces by other means or lose a player otherwise.

 

[bobbop]

I am sure by now the Rangers and Hank’s agent (Don Meehan) know if and where there is any interest in his services for next season. There is also a possibility of some if A then B circumstances. Once this information is presented to the client, he can decide on his next steps and the Rangers will decide on their next steps. This is hard but it is transactional, not brain surgery.

 

[broadwayblue]

I'm sure the Rangers PR team is working on the farewell letter to fans.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

we talking about legacy? No one is arguing that. I’ve already paid my respects multiple times.

we talking about results and why we need to buy him out? Why he absolutely should retire? cause that’s what I’m talking about here.

I could maybe buy this argument if the team was anywhere near competitive for the last few years. The fact they weren't had very little to do with Lundqvist. So, yeah, that trollish attitude is an affront to his legacy

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

well, if the Rangers lose an ADA b/c Hank choses to hang out in NY for less than a year for that extra approx $1.6 after taxes and agent cost on top of the approx $120 million he’s collected you can cheer and i’ll ridicule.

Why is it that the numbskulls are the first ones to ridicule?

 

[NYSPORTS]

Why is it that the numbskulls are the first ones to ridicule?

must be jealousy

 

[haohmaru]

I'm sure the Rangers PR team is working on the farewell letter to fans.

Are we trading the PR team? Where are they going?

 

[Harbour Dog]

Never have I ever scrolled past three pages of posts and not regretted it at all.

Drink, bitches.

 

[Chimpradamus]

His inability to play the puck in anyway along with his inability to end plays instead continuing to kick rebounds into high danger areas as well as his back breaking trend of giving up early goals often times bad ones has really amplified over the past 4 years worse and worse. The kicker was losing to Ottawa in a series that should have been won against a goalie that was putrid. Hank found a way to be as average or worse as possible. It’s really snowballed since then. He has hurt the team way more than he has helped them during these last 3 or 4 years and while I love the guy still do. His size and his style of playing so deep were never going to translate late into his career as his quickness left him. He was our worst enemy on the penalty kill again as he could not handle the puck and could no longer move laterally with any quickness. He was easily beatable on any sort of deflections playing so deep as his reactions slowed.

He is no longer a quality nhl goaltender and if he does continue past this season everyone will see that. He’ll show a hell of a lot of high danger saves though. Mainly because of his own doing

he should retire with class as he has always handled himself.

What an absolute casket of boloney. First of all, having a real NHL coach instead of Vigneault would've helped immensely, but I guess leading the league in backdoor goals against was really something to be proud of. Vigneault's system and erratic decisions were so bad it fooled the NYR management they needed a fire sale and a panic rebuild. The team played like absolute garbage, the coach was incompetent with an idiotic system and that you single out Lundqvist that much says alot.

It's pretty impressive by a "no longer NHL quality goaltender" to lead the league in quality goaltending after about a quarter of the season, while the NYR defense was the absolute worst in the league. Yes, even worse than Detroit was and they were laughably bad. I tried to dig up the pictures to illustrate it again, but they're buried somewhere I cannot find them. Who decides that Lundqvist is no longer a NHL quality goaltender? You? Based on what?

 

[haohmaru]

What an absolute casket of boloney. First of all, having a real NHL coach instead of Vigneault would've helped immensely, but I guess leading the league in backdoor goals against was really something to be proud of. Vigneault's system and erratic decisions were so bad it fooled the NYR management they needed a fire sale and a panic rebuild. The team played like absolute garbage, the coach was incompetent with an idiotic system and that you single out Lundqvist that much says alot.

It's pretty impressive by a "no longer NHL quality goaltender" to lead the league in quality goaltending after about a quarter of the season, while the NYR defense was the absolute worst in the league. Yes, even worse than Detroit was and they were laughably bad. I tried to dig up the pictures to illustrate it again, but they're buried somewhere I cannot find them. Who decides that Lundqvist is no longer a NHL quality goaltender? You? Based on what?

That's what drives me nuts about these conversations - not that the team should move on, trade him, buy him out, etc... I get that angle and why people would make that argument. There's nothing, however, to suggest that this guy couldn't be a quality backup, or even a starter for some teams, for another year or two. The stats just don't back that up. You want the guy to retire for the benefit of the NYR? I get that. He clearly still wants to play and the cards aren't in his hands at this point. He either plays for the Rangers, gets traded, or gets bought out. He might be forced into retirement as the goalie market is flooded, but I think that's quite some time away (after RFA arbs).

 

[NYRangers0723]

I really hope they aren’t just going to trade Georgiev just to accommodate Hank in his final year here. I mean I love Hank and everything but I want to roll with the young goalies. I mean if somebody offers a great return for Georgiev I understand but I hope they do t trade him just for Hank

 

[Synergy27]

That's what drives me nuts about these conversations - not that the team should move on, trade him, buy him out, etc... I get that angle and why people would make that argument. There's nothing, however, to suggest that this guy couldn't be a quality backup, or even a starter for some teams, for another year or two. The stats just don't back that up. You want the guy to retire for the benefit of the NYR? I get that. He clearly still wants to play and the cards aren't in his hands at this point. He either plays for the Rangers, gets traded, or gets bought out. He might be forced into retirement as the goalie market is flooded, but I think that's quite some time away (after RFA arbs).

He can still be a quality backup. You can’t pay a backup goaltender $8.5M. It’s really that simple.

 

[Vitto79]

He can still be a quality backup. You can’t pay a backup goaltender $8.5M. It’s really that simple.

Well Shesterkin makes the minimum so it’s not horrific for 1 yr

The problem is they don’t want to lose Georgiev

 

[Inferno]

He can still be a quality backup. You can’t pay a backup goaltender $8.5M. It’s really that simple.

You're going to be paying the backup that one way or the other.

You buyout Henrik and pay Georgiev and that's about 8.5 mil.

 

[NYSPORTS]

What an absolute casket of boloney. First of all, having a real NHL coach instead of Vigneault would've helped immensely, but I guess leading the league in backdoor goals against was really something to be proud of. Vigneault's system and erratic decisions were so bad it fooled the NYR management they needed a fire sale and a panic rebuild. The team played like absolute garbage, the coach was incompetent with an idiotic system and that you single out Lundqvist that much says alot.

It's pretty impressive by a "no longer NHL quality goaltender" to lead the league in quality goaltending after about a quarter of the season, while the NYR defense was the absolute worst in the league. Yes, even worse than Detroit was and they were laughably bad. I tried to dig up the pictures to illustrate it again, but they're buried somewhere I cannot find them. Who decides that Lundqvist is no longer a NHL quality goaltender? You? Based on what?

So Vigneault is a bad coach who fooled the Rangers management into a fire sale panic rebuild and Lundqvist is still a quality goaltender.

Based on the above post the Rangers should have kept their team together as a different coach would have won with roster of aging players, one of the worst farms in all of hockey (one of the worst in a decade) and Lundquivst.

Got it

Others may believe the team was going nowhere and is going on 3 years of rebuild rather a panic fire sale. Having perhaps best farm and collection of youth in the league along with the replacement for Lundquivst whose play has deteriorated.

 

[GAGLine]

You're going to be paying the backup that one way or the other.

You buyout Henrik and pay Georgiev and that's about 8.5 mil.

Georgiev isn't getting 3 mil. And buying out Hank doesn't mean we won't also trade Georgiev if the right deal comes along. Whoever takes that spot will likely make between 1 and 1.5 mil, which saves us 1.5 to 2 mil.

 

[Chimpradamus]

So Vigneault is a bad coach who fooled the Rangers management into a fire sale panic rebuild and Lundqvist is still a quality goaltender.

Based on the above post the Rangers should have kept their team together as a different coach would have won with roster of aging players, one of the worst farms in all of hockey (one of the worst in a decade) and Lundquivst.

Got it

Definitely. They certainly should've kept both McDonagh and Miller instead of giving them away for free, basically. That's a start. Trading away Zuccarello and Hayes was also extremely dumb. They're all players who still would've delivered. McD is an anchor in Tampa still, Miller is a great player in Vancouver. The return was laughable. Getting rid of Girardi and Staal would still be top priorities though. Thank you $ather. Throwing out Strålman like a street cat and keeping the "All Murican" pylons to lucrative deals. Then continuing trying to replace Strålman with player after player that the idiot coach that wants them in his dumb system doesn't know how to play (Yandle/ Shattenkirk).

Others may believe the team was going nowhere and is going on 3 years of rebuild rather a panic fire sale. Having perhaps best farm and collection of youth in the league along with the replacement for Lundquivst whose play has deteriorated.

Others believe? What do you mean? It was 100% conclusive what happened back then. The team was playing like a circus, there's no question about that. But how about that little detail that a University coach could manage the same results with a butchered, hampered rebuild team that the "star" coach did? All those quality players gone. Still the same result. Oooh, what a star coach Vigneault was. The biggest fraud in the NHL industry. Ask Philly fans what they think of Vigneault right now. They already see what a fraud he is. Vigneault is a joke of a coach. One of the most overrated coaches ever. When opponents figure out how to stop his "magical" stretch pass and contain possession in his defensive zone, he's done for.

Lundqvist isn't the same is in his prime, sure. He can still play quality goaltending. That he cannot uphold a circus for 20 years is perfectly understandable. He still was THE top goalie in advanced stats as last as the 2019/2020 season. The team played like a rebuilding garbage team, he did a ton to help them. NYR was ranked last as a defense, Lundqvist was ranked 1st after the first quarter of the season of all goalies. And you ask if he can still cut it? Try playing him more than 6 games in 6 months and find out.

Then Shestyerkin arrived when the team played much better and with more structure, with a clear significance statistically. The new star. Ok. Good luck with that pitch. Sure, he's very solid, but NYR need to calm down, just a bit. The sample size is ridiculous.

Secondly; which is the whole point of my message to you, to claim Lundqvist isn't an NHL goalie anymore is just laughable. Again; on what basis do you claim that? Are you a goon of the NYR economy department or a hockey fan?

When I've seen Shestyerkin handle the classic NYR collapse in a hockey season, I will stand behind him. For now? He's just gotten a small taste.

 

[haohmaru]

He can still be a quality backup. You can’t pay a backup goaltender $8.5M. It’s really that simple.

It really isn't. Because if you buy him out, you're paying him 5.5M to be on someone else's team, paying another player to be the backup (likely Georgiev on an RFA arbitration contract = 1.5M per) and then you're paying another 1.5 the following year again for NOTHING. What does that add up to? Yup, 8.5M.

Either way you're paying 8.5M. The question is if you want to get the pain out of the way this year or spread it out over 2.

 

[haohmaru]

Secondly; which is the whole point of my message to you, to claim Lundqvist isn't an NHL goalie anymore is just laughable. Again; on what basis do you claim that?

He let up a "soft" goal vs. Carolina after not playing for six months. That's why. Try to keep up.

 

[Irishguy42]

The Rangers aren't going to be making noise next season, so just bite the bullet and keep Hank for another season, and trade Georgiev since he's at peak trade value.

 

[Chimpradamus]

He let up a "soft" goal vs. Carolina after not playing for six months. That's why. Try to keep up.

Honestly, if I was Lundqvist at this point, I would just do everything that hurts the NYR the most. And when they start asking for a jersey ceremony, I would just decline and tell them to f*** off. The lack of respect for what he has done for the NYR franchise and how they've handled this debacle is honestly laughable. The classic NYR treatment when it comes to aging old stars, unless they're UFAs from somewhere else, then it's the gold treatment. The classic New York mercenary way to scratch backs. But Lundqvist will be classy and accept the PR garbage. I would personally just give the finger. But Lundqvist will smile and waive, because he's such a much more good hearted and understanding person, who still finds loyalty in ways I cannot even imagine.

The treatment of NYR stars and the handling of players that matter to the franchise is a perfect example why NYR will never be a successful hockey franchise. Always selfish, always a step behind, always thinking about money and the future, instead of the present. No permanent direction and no strategy how to win a Cup. You buy names and play a puzzle. Roll a dice. It's f***ing ridiculous. Zero identity. The ultimate mercenary team of mediocrity.

Never thinking of the social backlash treating your homegrown stars like garbage, because there's no money in that when they show decline. How can you be 100% loyal to a franchise that makes it perfectly clear you're just money cattle and not a human being? Go figure.

I can 100% guarantee the NYR won't win a cup for another 50 years. And that's easy to see. The franchise has the curse of arrogant assholes making the decisions thinking it's a business and not a sports team. Terms the clown owner will NEVER understand.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Definitely. They certainly should've kept both McDonagh and Miller instead of giving them away for free, basically. That's a start. Trading away Zuccarello and Hayes was also extremely dumb. They're all players who still would've delivered. McD is an anchor in Tampa still, Miller is a great player in Vancouver. The return was laughable. Getting rid of Girardi and Staal would still be top priorities though. Thank you $ather. Throwing out Strålman like a street cat and keeping the "All Murican" pylons to lucrative deals. Then continuing trying to replace Strålman with player after player that the idiot coach that wants them in his dumb system doesn't know how to play (Yandle/ Shattenkirk).

Others believe? What do you mean? It was 100% conclusive what happened back then. The team was playing like a circus, there's no question about that. But how about that little detail that a University coach could manage the same results with a butchered, hampered rebuild team that the "star" coach did? All those quality players gone. Still the same result. Oooh, what a star coach Vigneault was. The biggest fraud in the NHL industry. Ask Philly fans what they think of Vigneault right now. They already see what a fraud he is. Vigneault is a joke of a coach. One of the most overrated coaches ever. When opponents figure out how to stop his "magical" stretch pass and contain possession in his defensive zone, he's done for.

Lundqvist isn't the same is in his prime, sure. He can still play quality goaltending. That he cannot uphold a circus for 20 years is perfectly understandable. He still was THE top goalie in advanced stats as last as the 2019/2020 season. The team played like a rebuilding garbage team, he did a ton to help them. NYR was ranked last as a defense, Lundqvist was ranked 1st after the first quarter of the season of all goalies. And you ask if he can still cut it? Try playing him more than 6 games in 6 months and find out.

Then Shestyerkin arrived when the team played much better and with more structure, with a clear significance statistically. The new star. Ok. Good luck with that pitch. Sure, he's very solid, but NYR need to calm down, just a bit. The sample size is ridiculous.

Secondly; which is the whole point of my message to you, to claim Lundqvist isn't an NHL goalie anymore is just laughable. Again; on what basis do you claim that? Are you a goon of the NYR economy department or a hockey fan?

When I've seen Shestyerkin handle the classic NYR collapse in a hockey season, I will stand behind him. For now? He's just gotten a small taste.

I was no fan of moving Miller and was no fan of the returns for both a what i perceived to be a solid player and the team Captain. I had no issue however moving McD b/c he was not playing very well here. In fact, he’s not the go to defenseman in Tampa. Hedman is.

Flash back to last season it was McD’s foolish turnover which jump started the Columbus comeback. I have no issue not having that sizable McD contract elsewhere

Stralman, yeah another dumb Sather move.

I have no issue moving out Zuccarello and did you forget the return on Hayes?

Regarding Hank, he’s not close to being the same goalie he was. Advanced stats for a short time doesn’t tell the whole story. Tells me he can’t shoulder the big load based on his age.

Put McD, Zucs, Hayes, Miller, Stralman and Hank on this team and they aren’t going too far regardless of coaching.

We understand there are some fans which can’t let go. The rebuild was the best thing the Rangers could have ever done.