Value of: Help me understand trade value
- Thread starter ZZHabs
- Start date
The NHL has a salary cap, some teams want to open a roster spot, some players request trades...
KingsOfThe805
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- Jul 1, 2020
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GAGLine
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- Sep 17, 2007
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Value doesn't exist in a vacuum. There a many different factors that go into determining what someone is traded for. Age, cap hit, term, position, NMC/NTC, production, just a name a few.
Tampa didn't want a player that can help them now because they probably already have a player in mind to fill Maroon's spot. And honestly, they got a 7th round pick. If they had gotten a player back instead, would that player really have helped all that much? It's quite possible that any player they got back wouldn't even make the team.
Tampa is better off just taking the pick.
Tampa didn't want a player that can help them now because they probably already have a player in mind to fill Maroon's spot. And honestly, they got a 7th round pick. If they had gotten a player back instead, would that player really have helped all that much? It's quite possible that any player they got back wouldn't even make the team.
Tampa is better off just taking the pick.
DownIsTheNewUp
Registered User
A player's value is relative to their cap hit. There are times a really good player has negative trade value if their cap hit is larger than their perceived value.
In the case of Maroon, Tampa's not really saving cap here so this move might be more about opening a roster spot for someone else.
In the case of Maroon, Tampa's not really saving cap here so this move might be more about opening a roster spot for someone else.
There is a chart somewhere on the internet showing the value of at least draft picks in true "hockey trades." But, there are fewer of those these days vs. cap dump trades, given the flat cap. The trade deadline tends to jack up values compared to draft day, off season, or in season trades, so timing also has a lot to do with it.
Rorschach
Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
www.capfriendly.com
Teams have both a limited amount of cap space and roster slots. They also have a farm system. If a team trades two NHL players for nothing, it’s because they want both the cap and roster spots freed up so that they can bring up two young players from their farm system to take those spots. They will not only be cheaper and thus take less cap space, they may have potentially higher ceilings.
Teams who are/were rebuilding don’t have this problem at all so they may pay a 7th rounder or Future Considerations to get two players for free since they have lots of both cap space and roster spots.
Teams that are trying to win now but don’t manage their cap and roster resources we’ll never seem to make it to the Cup championship. They always seem to get mowed down in the first two rounds by a deeper team, no matter how good their best players are: see Edmonton.
Archijerej
Registered User
Value is contextual. You will get a better grasp of ascertaining value with experience. Read the discussions of completed trades in this section of the forum. This way you will find out about both parties' needs, their respective goals (for example,competing or rebuilding), cap situation, ability of traded players, current market for this type of players etc.
- Oct 10, 2007
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Yeah, a good deal of trades lately are valuing dumping cap and opening a roster spot. The RyJo trade is a good example, as is the Maroon trade.
Djp
Registered User
Right now tampa is 11/9/1 whith sone LTIR space and an RFA to resign ( jesnrot)
they needed to unload some salary.. they
trade a D for F
sign RFS
sign G
they are at 13/8/2 and be cap compliant
trade value is all about supply/ demand and cap space situations.
the past fee years cap space has bern tight so players were traded at much lower than thrir quality/ rep woukd suggest.
Value is very conditional. For instance, the player on 'your' team who gets a two minute penalty every time he even looks like the coach is thinking about putting him in is obviously worth three first round picks if you want to trade him to 'my' team. The 40goal scorer, 1st team all star, multiple individual award winner, with 6 years left on a $2 million a year contract on 'my' team, might, ... might be worth a 6th round pick, 5 years from now from 'your' club...
/Tampa needed to clear cap and roster spots (and in Maroon's case, after all he's done for the team didn't want to just cut him. MN can use him, essentially for free, to be a solid vet presence who can teach their kids what it takes/habits needed to be a winner)
/Tampa needed to clear cap and roster spots (and in Maroon's case, after all he's done for the team didn't want to just cut him. MN can use him, essentially for free, to be a solid vet presence who can teach their kids what it takes/habits needed to be a winner)
If you want to actually understand trade value, I recommend avoiding HFBoards forever
KingsFan7824
Registered User
You'd have to talk to the individual GMs in question. They are the ones that determine trade value. TB didn't want to take back someone that can play now, because they didn't want to take someone back that could play now in this trade. It's simply as simple as that. If someone else was trading Maroon, they might've made a different trade.
Math would have you assign values to everything. If player is a 5, contract $ makes him a 6 and term a 7. Well you are trading a 7 for lets say one for one traded for a 6. The team with the 7 is missing return value so lets throw in a a draft pick to even it out. Lots of variable leads to different opinions on worth of players based on each team. The OP trade is probably just one of those business deals for a penny type of situation.
JaegerDice
The mark of my dignity shall scar thy DNA
- Dec 26, 2014
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There is no objective value, everything is guided by each team's context as far as the salary cap and their contention window.
The most basic rule is:
A player that provides equal or greater on-ice impact relative to his salary cap hit is of high value.
A player that provides less on-ice impact relative to his salary cap is of low or negative value.
The most basic rule is:
A player that provides equal or greater on-ice impact relative to his salary cap hit is of high value.
A player that provides less on-ice impact relative to his salary cap is of low or negative value.
"Value" might differ in July versus at the trade deadline. It's more difficult to trade somebody right now if there's a comparable free agent to be had. As others said, cap space is at a premium right now so certain teams have to clear out salary. And then it comes down to supply and demand.
Florida traded Anthony Duclair (3 mil cap hit) for a modest return but turned around and signed Evan Rodrigues (3 mil). Those two moves were likely linked. Florida didn't necessarily trade Duclair to San Jose for a 5th round pick that's a long shot to make it, they traded Duclair to open up space to sign Rodrigues. Meanwhile San Jose might not be a desirable landing spot for a UFA / they don't want to get locked into a long term deal so they were willing to take on Duclair for a year and possibly flip him at the deadline for a better pick than they gave up.
Dallas traded Colin Miller (1.85 mil) to New Jersey for a 5th rounder. They weren't looking at it like the 5th rounder is helping them now. They freed up cap space and had an internal candidate (Nils Lundkvist) to take the roster spot. This also opened up cap space for them to add Matt Duchene (3 mil). CapFriendly currently has Dallas with 852K in cap space for a depth body to round out their roster. Miller's value wasn't "higher" since other teams could sign a free agent D instead. New Jersey fit as a trade partner because they just wanted a short term D to give Simon Nemec another year to develop, so the Devils weren't going to the type of deal necessary to land a UFA.
In the case of Tampa Bay, they can probably find a Maroon replacement internally or on the free agent market. They might have already indicated in his exit interview at the end of last season that they were looking to go younger/faster. So instead of keeping a veteran guy as a healthy scratch, they sent him to another team who would use him.
Florida traded Anthony Duclair (3 mil cap hit) for a modest return but turned around and signed Evan Rodrigues (3 mil). Those two moves were likely linked. Florida didn't necessarily trade Duclair to San Jose for a 5th round pick that's a long shot to make it, they traded Duclair to open up space to sign Rodrigues. Meanwhile San Jose might not be a desirable landing spot for a UFA / they don't want to get locked into a long term deal so they were willing to take on Duclair for a year and possibly flip him at the deadline for a better pick than they gave up.
Dallas traded Colin Miller (1.85 mil) to New Jersey for a 5th rounder. They weren't looking at it like the 5th rounder is helping them now. They freed up cap space and had an internal candidate (Nils Lundkvist) to take the roster spot. This also opened up cap space for them to add Matt Duchene (3 mil). CapFriendly currently has Dallas with 852K in cap space for a depth body to round out their roster. Miller's value wasn't "higher" since other teams could sign a free agent D instead. New Jersey fit as a trade partner because they just wanted a short term D to give Simon Nemec another year to develop, so the Devils weren't going to the type of deal necessary to land a UFA.
In the case of Tampa Bay, they can probably find a Maroon replacement internally or on the free agent market. They might have already indicated in his exit interview at the end of last season that they were looking to go younger/faster. So instead of keeping a veteran guy as a healthy scratch, they sent him to another team who would use him.
pth2
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I think it was for the salary retention. A lot of deals for 2 picks seem to be one for the player, one for the retention.
