Player Discussion: Heinola Thread

[DRW204]

i really would be surprised if the Jets have morrissey and pionk on the same pair. those are the 2 of the team's best & most reliable offensive catalysts from the back-end. IMO, it be more beneficial to have one of them on the ice at least 2/3s+ of the game, rather than on the same pair. i really can't see Heinola going from AHL - where he admitted he isn't in game shape - straight to 2nd pair vs the Wild. but we shall see.

JMo Pionk
Ville DD
Fleury Miller

 

[Flair Hay]

Pretty obvious. I'd be shocked if Arniel throws his entire lineup into chaos over a guy who has never proven to be even an average 6D, who has been injured for a year, walking into the line up 20 games into the season, in his first game.

You guys may be right... I just think if it's chaos we are looking to avoid that shuffling the d pairs may be our safest option

 

[Flair Hay]

I'd put softer matchups as #1. Playing against Minny's 4th line with Miller, is a hell of a lot easier than playing against Kaprizov with DeMelo. I think you are risking throwing Villie to the wolves and having him play too cautious if he starts getting overwhelmed.

He is going to get shifts against Kaprizov line no matter what. Can't really control for matchups on the road.

That said, Miller isn't bad at all. I'm cool with Ville playing with him for a couple games and seeing where we are after that!

 

[Flair Hay]

Potential? That and a dime used to get you a phone call
Kidding aside, I have no issue with slotting Ville in if he shows he can handle it -
What I don't get is, why start him there?

If this is just about how we think a player might do if given the chance, I'm fine with that - we all have the right to speculate.

I get it. I may be jumping the gun by a week or two here. It just seems like a move that could really pay off if Ville is ready. I'll stand down for now and be happy to watch him acclimate on 3rd pair.

 

[surixon]

I'd put softer matchups as #1. Playing against Minny's 4th line with Miller, is a hell of a lot easier than playing against Kaprizov with DeMelo. I think you are risking throwing Villie to the wolves and having him play too cautious if he starts getting overwhelmed.

Kaprizov is injured again isn't he?

 

[gojetsgo]

Kaprizov is injured again isn't he?

 

[WolfgangPuck]

Why take out Miller, unless I have missed another injury?

Miller not out. I said play 7 D.

 

[voyageur]

Dear lord.....Heinola isn't replacing Morrissey anywhere nevermind PP1.

Yep. But you have to think this one like a coach. He had 2 pairings he relied on for matchups.

Samberg's 20 minutes a night were those variety.

Now you look down the depth chart and who takes those minutes, against some of the best in the league? I don't think it's Heinola. I am not even sure what Stanley's injury is or severity, but it's likely not him. Fleury's skating is close to Samberg's but there's a reason he was signed to a 2 way contract.

Those defensive minutes could go to Mo and Melo and they can probably handle them. Everyone else just needs to play their game, next man up.

If Stan gets skating again, my inclination is there is a roster spot for him because the Jets want some physicality on the backend.

How the players get sorted I am not going to get too concerned with, I think Arniel knows what he is doing.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Why does everyone talk about Stanley’s physicality? He’s a big guy but he doesn’t use it at all. I would say that Pionk is far more physical. If Stan were really interested in furthering his career, he would start using that size, but rarely have I seen it.

 

[Moloch]

Why does everyone talk about Stanley’s physicality? He’s a big guy but he doesn’t use it at all. I would say that Pionk is far more physical. If Stan were really interested in furthering his career, he would start using that size, but rarely have I seen it.

This is what frustrates me the most about him. He could be a real enforcer but he just doesn't make it happen. Can't remember which game it was (tampa maybe?) where Stan laid a big hit and it completely changed the momentum of the game. If he brought out that physicality more often (and managed to be smart about it - cant spend all of his minutes in the box mind you) it would bode well with all the people who have an axe to grind with him (lots of people)

 

[voyageur]

This is what frustrates me the most about him. He could be a real enforcer but he just doesn't make it happen. Can't remember which game it was (tampa maybe?) where Stan laid a big hit and it completely changed the momentum of the game. If he brought out that physicality more often (and managed to be smart about it - cant spend all of his minutes in the box mind you) it would bode well with all the people who have an axe to grind with him (lots of people)

I think it's hard to be as big as Stan is (and he looks ripped this year) and lay out clean hits on the ice that aren't considered penalties because of the impact. Buff had that problem too but he could also chug up the ice. And he got some leeway in a tougher league than it is today.

I think physicality for Stan has to concentrate on body position in board battles and making it hard to get to Helly. Lowry getting hurt in his fight with Benn and his importance to the team as a player means he can't be the only player on the ice holding dirty players/plays accountable.

I suspect Stanley gets into some altercations if he gets back in, the Jets are playing much tougher teams than the ones they were putting up 6s against early in the season, though the 6 against Tampa was a result of Stan's presence.

You hope that Heinola with all the practice time is picking up things from Josh that can help him be effective in both the offensive and defensive zone.

 

[KingBogo]

Miller not out. I said play 7 D.

Gotcha, but they have been doing well rolling 4 lines so I’m not sure Arniel would want to mess with that.

 

[surixon]

Yep. But you have to think this one like a coach. He had 2 pairings he relied on for matchups.

Samberg's 20 minutes a night were those variety.

Now you look down the depth chart and who takes those minutes, against some of the best in the league? I don't think it's Heinola. I am not even sure what Stanley's injury is or severity, but it's likely not him. Fleury's skating is close to Samberg's but there's a reason he was signed to a 2 way contract.

Those defensive minutes could go to Mo and Melo and they can probably handle them. Everyone else just needs to play their game, next man up.

If Stan gets skating again, my inclination is there is a roster spot for him because the Jets want some physicality on the backend.

How the players get sorted I am not going to get too concerned with, I think Arniel knows what he is doing.

I think you just put Heinola on the PK. He's played there for years on the Moose. Not sure why the hesitation to have him there as he's been trained to do that job.

 

[AtomicJets]

I think you just put Heinola on the PK. He's played there for years on the Moose. Not sure why the hesitation to have him there as he's been trained to do that job.

Yeah I'm kinda expecting them to play Fleury-Pionk as PK1 and Heinola-Demelo as PK2

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Why does everyone talk about Stanley’s physicality? He’s a big guy but he doesn’t use it at all. I would say that Pionk is far more physical. If Stan were really interested in furthering his career, he would start using that size, but rarely have I seen it.

He's been playing more physically last half of last season and this one. Still not an awful lot. But what good is physicality if he can't catch anyone?

 

[Jet]

He's been playing more physically last half of last season and this one. Still not an awful lot. But what good is physicality if he can't catch anyone?

That is an overstated meme. Being physical isn't about chasing people around and 'catching them'. Its about good positioning and using your strength at the front of the net and in board battles.

I don't care if Stan lays big hits as long as he is winning the more important battles.

Unfortunately, he still looks light on his skates. He seems to get bumped off the puck and loses those 50/50 battles too often for a guy his size. His height probably hurts him there which is why I think he still needs to add some weight

 

[LowLefty]

Why does everyone talk about Stanley’s physicality? He’s a big guy but he doesn’t use it at all. I would say that Pionk is far more physical. If Stan were really interested in furthering his career, he would start using that size, but rarely have I seen it.

Hyperbole - Everybody doesn't talk about it - most on here don't give him any credit at all for his physical game - and to say he doesn't use it at all is not true.
He is not a bone crusher - but he takes his man along the walls and net front - he can tangle you up effectively based on his size alone.

There was a time not long ago where he was chasing guys around trying to lay out the big hit. IMO, this was a result of him trying to be more physical than he needed to be - and probably came from coaching. Pionk did the same thing at times where he was lining someone up or trying to apply that hip check, and he'd be out out of position chasing a player. Both are doing less of that now and likely by design (coaching).

What it comes down to is using his size and wing span to disrupt plays - especially the cycle or net front traffic - and he does that. He could be better and likely will be as he progresses. His biggest issue right now is staying healthy - he'll have a problem developing his game is he can't play on a regular basis.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Hyperbole - Everybody doesn't talk about it - most on here don't give him any credit at all for his physical game - and to say he doesn't use it at all is not true.
He is not a bone crusher - but he takes his man along the walls and net front - he can tangle you up effectively based on his size alone.

There was a time not long ago where he was chasing guys around trying to lay out the big hit. IMO, this was a result of him trying to be more physical than he needed to be - and probably came from coaching. Pionk did the same thing at times where he was lining someone up guys or trying to apply that hip check, and he'd be out out of position chasing a player. Both are doing less of that now and likely by design (coaching).

What it comes down to is using his size and wing span to disrupt plays - especially the cycle or net front traffic - and he does that. He could be better and likely will be as he progresses. His biggest issue right now is staying healthy - he'll have a problem developing his game is he can't play on a regular basis.

Also, unfortunately, everything Stan does is a penalty because of his size so he can't play physical. Everyone knows to just go down when he is playing them and that he'll get called to sin bin.

I can fault him for many things, but, just like a guy in a photo in the me too era I can’t fault him for not wanting to touch the opposition.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

That is an overstated meme. Being physical isn't about chasing people around and 'catching them'. Its about good positioning and using your strength at the front of the net and in board battles.

I don't care if Stan lays big hits as long as he is winning the more important battles.

Unfortunately, he still looks light on his skates. He seems to get bumped off the puck and loses those 50/50 battles too often for a guy his size. His height probably hurts him there which is why I think he still needs to add some weight

I didn't mean to imply he needed to catch someone to hit them. I mean that whatever advantage there is to his physical play is offset by his lack of speed/quickness. Every other team in the league knows him and they try to exploit his weakness.

He has improved his defensive play by better positioning and use of his size but he is still vulnerable because of his slowness.

I agree that a little more bulk probably helps him. It wouldn't make him any slower unless he overdoes it. He is not heavy for his height.

 

[ps241]

That is an overstated meme. Being physical isn't about chasing people around and 'catching them'. Its about good positioning and using your strength at the front of the net and in board battles.

I don't care if Stan lays big hits as long as he is winning the more important battles.

Unfortunately, he still looks light on his skates. He seems to get bumped off the puck and loses those 50/50 battles too often for a guy his size. His height probably hurts him there which is why I think he still needs to add some weight

Yea the 6’7” thing works against Stan on board battles where the puck is in his skates. He loses most of those. In Boxing length is a huge advantage when you can keep an opponent outside, but the moment they get inside that same length/reach turns into a disadvantage. Myers had some problems with that too but Tyler was also really good at using his poke check effectively. Logan just needs to keep working on his technique.

 

[Jet]

I think all things considered Ville had himself a decent first game back

What a challenging environment to come back to after not playing in the NHL for nearly 2 years. The entire team struggled with how aggressive and dialled in Minnesota was in the first half of the game.

Like most of the team, I thought Helle really let him and them get their feet underneath them and figure out how to get into the game.

Part of that was probably fatigue in the first half for the Jets, and then the wild running out of gas and getting frustrated.

Ville stayed in the battle, and I loved the composure in the third against Foligno to not cough the puck up and draw the penalty (what an idiot that guy is). I do think he probably held onto the puck too long there but I prefer that to giving it away. As he gets his game speed up I expect a quicker decision and either a pass or for him to get his feet moving to carry the puck a bit to open up a pass.

He can build on this in LA, though I would expect him to sag a bit after any 5 games as his conditioning can't possiby be where it should be right now.

So far, so good tiny heiny!!

 

[Skidooboy]

I thought Ville looked pretty amazing out there last night...considering how rusty he must be....

I saw him make some amazing, simple, smart plays in the Dzone in the second and third period...i didn't see any real mistakes...and if there were? He was right back on it covering those mistakes and making a smart simple play to fix it...

His skating really does look elite, and his ability to angle guys off is going to be a game changer on the back end.... could he be the missing link on the back end? with him and samberg? I thin our D needs might be filled

Good old "draft and develop" ...

 

[Adam da bomb]

I thought Ville looked pretty amazing out there last night...considering how rusty he must be....

I saw him make some amazing, simple, smart plays in the Dzone in the second and third period...i didn't see any real mistakes...and if there were? He was right back on it covering those mistakes and making a smart simple play to fix it...

His skating really does look elite, and his ability to angle guys off is going to be a game changer on the back end.... could he be the missing link on the back end? with him and samberg? I thin our D needs might be filled

Good old "draft and develop" ...

Let's hope so. One game is a really small sample size.

 

[Skidooboy]

Let's hope so. One game is a really small sample size.

oh I'm aware..

but also...it's more than just one game.... he's been pegged as a contributor since we drafted him and he's been very good his entire career here. aside form injury/recovery ...
coming into the season the staff were very high on Ville...

To see him drop into a big game against a division rival who have a record almost as good as the Jets... and play that well, after such a long time off.... it's continuing a trend of excellent play for Ville.

 

[Adam da bomb]

oh I'm aware..

but also...it's more than just one game.... he's been pegged as a contributor since we drafted him and he's been very good his entire career here. aside form injury/recovery ...
coming into the season the staff were very high on Ville...

To see him drop into a big game against a division rival who have a record almost as good as the Jets... and play that well, after such a long time off.... it's continuing a trend of excellent play for Ville.

I can't even remember his NHL games before this season so I will have to take your word on it.