Confirmed with Link: Hawks sign John Hayden

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BobbyJet

The accountability era?
Oct 27, 2010
30,134
10,051
Dundas, Ontario. Can
Great post, thanks.

Apparently Hayden played mostly RW at Yale. Schmaltz just can't be trusted at the dot at this point, and he did his best work with Toews. I wouldn't mind seeing:

Schmaltz-Toews-Panik
Panarin-Anisimov-Kane
Hartman-Kero-Hossa
Jurco-Kruger-Hayden

A 4th line like this could wreak some serious havoc. Kruger stays defensively minded as always, opening up Jurco and Hayden to lay down punishing hits and the occasional offensive outbursts.

Jurco and punishing hits? OKAY. Q will play Desi over him in PO's. Book it.

Again if Q plans to play Hayden in bottom 6 at crunch time he needs to play him there for a stint to wind down the season.

As for Kero: My eye test states that he may need a rest.... his game seems sluggish lately.

It's looking more and more like Hino will not be re-called, and that's a mistake in my mind.
 

EbonyRaptor

Registered User
Jul 10, 2009
7,341
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Geezerville
Hayden looks to be a player who is maximized if he plays with better players. That sounds like it would be true for every player and to some extent it is but some players can't play effectively with elite level players because they can't think the game fast enough and/or can't execute at the same speed as the elite players - which results in the elite players level of play dropping off because they are essentially playing short handed many times during the flow of the game. Hayden looks like he can mentally process at elite speed and so far his less than elite skating hasn't hurt the Toews' line from an execution perspective - he's mobile enough for it not to be a problem.

That said, we haven't seen him in either a bottom-6 role or at center. He may do OK as a bottom-6 winger - just have to wait and see on that one. As far as center - I don't think he's ready for that this season because of the additional defensive responsibilities required in Q's system. I'm not saying he won't be capable at some point in the future but I think it would be too much to put on him now when he's barely got his feet wet in the NHL yet, especially considering he hasn't played center in a while because he played wing this season at Yale.
 

giza

Registered User
Jul 19, 2011
1,426
625
Hayden

Nobody's talking about the big Russian kid anymore----thank God for Hayden!
 

Killer Boots Man

Registered User
Jul 8, 2015
128
3
Jurco and punishing hits? OKAY. Q will play Desi over him in PO's. Book it.

Again if Q plans to play Hayden in bottom 6 at crunch time he needs to play him there for a stint to wind down the season.

As for Kero: My eye test states that he may need a rest.... his game seems sluggish lately.

It's looking more and more like Hino will not be re-called, and that's a mistake in my mind.

Punishing hits meaning relative to the Blackhawks' normal MO. I think you're right, but I like what I've seen from Jurco recently and think he deserves a shot. Behind Hayden, he's led the team in hits over the past few games (9 hits in 36 minutes) and has had generated a few high danger scoring opportunities. I'd love to see this guy to turn his career around and turn into the next Panik. He's got some skill.

Agree with you on Kero too. I just don't know who else we stick there at 3C. Kruger's place is on the 4th line, to anchor a true shutdown line. We need our 3rd line to score a la the Sharp 3rd line a couple years ago. Hossa on the third line give us that potential, but pairing him with Kruger limits his offense too much.

If Hayden's recent success is attributable to his linemates' level of play (i.e., Toews), then pairing him up with Hossa on the third line may be the answer. But yeah, Q needs to try this out ASAP.
 

CallMeShaft

34 Counts
Apr 14, 2014
16,119
22,248
Nobody's talking about the big Russian kid anymore----thank God for Hayden!

Well, a month or two ago, I did make a post here that Hayden would be a nice fallback option in case we couldn't land Shalunov.

Turns out, I was right.
 

Toews2Bickell

It's Showtime
Nov 24, 2013
23,558
23,504
He could definitely be if Panik is too expensive this offseason.

Hayden-Toews-Shalunov
Panarin-Schmaltz-Kane
Hartman-Anisimov-Hossa
Rasmussen-Kero-Hino/Motte

Bump Hayden down to the Kero line and insert DeBrincat with Toews. Either way the Hawks will be in good shape, but it makes a ton of sense for Panik to take a 1 year deal at ~$2m and put up a big season before cashing in. I can't see him going from asking for more than 2-2.5m unless he has a monster postseason ala Bickell in 2013.
 
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RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Oct 21, 2015
23,119
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That's me in the corner
Bump Hayden down to the Kero line and insert DeBrincat with Toews. Either way the Hawks will be in good shape, but it makes a ton of sense for Panik to take a 1 year deal at ~$2m and put up a big season before cashing in. I can't see him going from asking for for than 2-2.5m unless he has a monster postseason ala Bickell in 2013.

Right, DeBrincat could be in the mix too. There's really no reason to give Panik any sort of big deal.
 

crazyhawk

Registered User
Apr 8, 2011
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There is of course no guarantee that Debrincat will make the team for sure this coming season but he might ... there is always Shalunov potentially coming over as well. We will have options. The window is still most certainly open and showing no imminent signs of tightening up anytime soon.
 

Hawksfan2828

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
13,437
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Libertyville, IL
Nobody's talking about the big Russian kid anymore----thank God for Hayden!

You know what? I'm pretty confident Vegas will take Kruger, but if they need a sweetener I would give Vegas Shalunov's rights - if they sent us back a pick in the deal.

Hawks have too many good young players and throwing Shalunov into the mix will just make evaluations even more difficult this summer.
 

Hawksfan2828

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
13,437
20
Libertyville, IL
DeBrincat isn't making this team over "older" younger players like Hartman, Schmaltz, Hinostroza etc....

Besides, a year in the AHL would be great for his development... Remember he's still a teenager, he's going to need a year in the A to workout any kinks he has and to get used to the pro life...

Even if he was NHL ready I would still insist he plays a year in Rockford... It's not like the Hawks need him right now.... We have plenty of talent..
 

Toews2Bickell

It's Showtime
Nov 24, 2013
23,558
23,504
Hinostroza isn't even on the team. People need to accept Hino for what he is with this org so far. NHL tweener and he has shown nothing that makes him anything more than that. DeBrincat can absolutely make the team over him. Obviously he's not displacing Hartman or Schmaltz of a roster spot given they've solidified themselves at the NHL level. But if you think after the season DeBrincat just had that he cant come into training camp and win a job over Vinnie Hinostroza then IDK what to say.
 

TLEH

Pronounced T-Lay
Feb 28, 2015
20,676
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Bomoseen, Vermont
Hino can use his speed to be a lifetime NHL grinder/ defense guy at minimum, but he really has to slow the game down mentally first. Going so fast gets him out of position and it's why he's not here.
 

EbonyRaptor

Registered User
Jul 10, 2009
7,341
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Geezerville
DeBrincat isn't making this team over "older" younger players like Hartman, Schmaltz, Hinostroza etc....

Besides, a year in the AHL would be great for his development... Remember he's still a teenager, he's going to need a year in the A to workout any kinks he has and to get used to the pro life...

Even if he was NHL ready I would still insist he plays a year in Rockford... It's not like the Hawks need him right now.... We have plenty of talent..

What? If DeBrincat is ready to play in the NHL, then he should play in the NHL. DeBrincat is a proficient goal scorer and if he's ready to play in the NHL that implies he's ready to score goals in the NHL because that is the only reason he would be in the NHL. In other words if he's ready that means he's ready to score goals. If he doesn't score than he has little or no value and won't be in the NHL. But if he can score he would be an asset that shouldn't be wasted in the AHL.

Now that said, he may not be ready for the NHL and time in the AHL may be the best thing ... but not if he's ready to play in the NHL.

Also - DeBrincat is a different player than Hartman, Schmaltz and Hinostroza. D-Cat isn't the physical player Hartman is - he won't take Hartman's roster spot. D-Cat isn't an elite playmaker like Schmaltz is - he won't take Schmaltz' roster spot. D-Cat isn't a speed demon like Hinostroza - Hinostroza currently doesn't have a roster spot to lose. But what D-Cat potentially has (stress potentially) is a snipers shot that could be as importand an asset to have as Hartman's physicality and Schmaltz' playmaking.
 
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Bubba88

Toews = Savior
Nov 8, 2009
30,073
809
Bavaria
Hino is all Speed, no brain up at this Point. May Change, but it Looks like he Speeds his way through everything, needed or not.
 

hawksfan50

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
14,293
2,016
What? If DeBrincat is ready to play in the NHL, then he should play in the NHL. DeBrincat is a proficient goal scorer and if he's ready to play in the NHL that implies he's ready to score goals in the NHL because that is the only reason he would be in the NHL. In other words if he's ready that means he's ready to score goals. If he doesn't score than he has little or no value and won't be in the NHL. But if he can score he would be an asset that shouldn't be wasted in the AHL.

Now that said, he may not be ready for the NHL and time in the AHL may be the best thing ... but not if he's ready to play in the NHL.

Also - DeBrincat is a different player than Hartman, Schmaltz and Hinostroza. D-Cat isn't the physical player Hartman is - he won't take Hartman's roster spot. D-Cat isn't an elite playmaker like Schmaltz is - he won't take Schmaltz' roster spot. D-Cat isn't a speed demon like Hinostroza - Hinostroza currently doesn't have a roster spot to lose. But what D-Cat potentially has (stress potentially) is a snipers shot that could be as importand an asset to have as Hartman's physicality and Schmaltz' playmaking.
Actually he is a terrific playmaker ...he has set up linemates so many times that plays were not finished by them. .and that includes Dylan Strome and Taylor Raddysh..that it is laughable to say Schmaltz is a better playmaker ..you have to watch D-cat and I have. ...lot this season ...Schmaltz play makes with speed off rushes or by stealing pucks with speed or coming off the boards with speed ..D-Cat makes some plays off rushes on 2 on 1 s bit more often hosnplay-makes are from absolutely lightning quick passes right on tape to open guys ..he us far better playmaking than Schmaltz via vision,knowing where guys are ,anticipation sense knowing where guys will be ...and uncanny quick on stock off stick oases before d-men can react .There are many ways to play'make.In addition his shot is far far far superior to anything Schmaltz does with his..He too can steal pucks and turnover transition to attack ..but it is a different type of stealing pucks. .he does it by quick stick and being at the spot to so it..Schmaltz does it by speed Getti g to his check and taking off him ..thus big difference is that Schmaltz can close on the puck carrier from further away due to speed ..D-Cat does it from not so much coming from distance to steal tge puck but by anticipating the puck will be on a puck carrier's stick and going to near that spot in advance then using his quick stick to get the puck. .These are 2 verydifferentvwaysvto effect steaks/transitioning to attack chances in the o-zone. SCHMALTZ is better at using his speed to check in the d-zone..but as far as playmaking I dispute the assertion he is so superior to D-cat .

But Beyond even playmaking. .D-Cat can flatnoutvscore goals with that shot and his uncanny ability to release super fast and to find open spaces to do that ..Few in the NHL can score goals as snipers ..do you simply cannot keep that off a team ..Naybevthe pissibiliry of D-Cat Schmaltz Hossa as line #3 would work
.you get Schmaltz setting up D-Cat for snipes. You get D-cat setting up Hossa Better than anyone Hossa chaps yet played with. BUT if Hossa at 38 going n 39 next season starts the bold man fade ..then you have to shove hom down from line #3 to line #4 (this will hapoen sometime in the last 4 years of his contract ..so if not next season then the one after that or the 2 after that) ...You coukd have others vying for a 3W spot ...Fortin ..
just to name one..

You could also have a 4th line of

Hartman Schmaltz Kero/Hino

And a 3rd line of

D-Cat Highmore Hossa

You could have a 3 Rd line of


D-Cat Highmore Schmaltz

Or D-Cat Schmaltz Highmore *

* Highmore would however take draws as he is ecellent at faceoffs.

Line #4 could then be:

Hartman Kero /Hossa


So yes...plenty of options..And what if Shalunov signs?

Point is Q will find the best solutions. .But with Kruger gone for cap relief I think Highmore gets in somewhere..because of faceoffs and pk ability on addition to being a good 200 foot player ,speed and playmaking ability..but because he does a lit well you gotta find axspitvforvhim at C or RW with faceoff role.
 

bearcat90

Registered User
Aug 11, 2016
28
0
Great analysis Fiddy, thanks for that. Based on everything we have heard (and stats from OHL) looks like Debrincat will at the very least push for a roster spot next year, and potentially be up there with Schmaltz and Hartman as our most polished young players.
 

Blue Liner

Registered User
Dec 12, 2009
10,332
3,608
Chicago
Actually he is a terrific playmaker ...he has set up linemates so many times that plays were not finished by them. .and that includes Dylan Strome and Taylor Raddysh..that it is laughable to say Schmaltz is a better playmaker ..you have to watch D-cat and I have. ...lot this season ...Schmaltz play makes with speed off rushes or by stealing pucks with speed or coming off the boards with speed ..D-Cat makes some plays off rushes on 2 on 1 s bit more often hosnplay-makes are from absolutely lightning quick passes right on tape to open guys ..he us far better playmaking than Schmaltz via vision,knowing where guys are ,anticipation sense knowing where guys will be ...and uncanny quick on stock off stick oases before d-men can react .There are many ways to play'make.In addition his shot is far far far superior to anything Schmaltz does with his..He too can steal pucks and turnover transition to attack ..but it is a different type of stealing pucks. .he does it by quick stick and being at the spot to so it..Schmaltz does it by speed Getti g to his check and taking off him ..thus big difference is that Schmaltz can close on the puck carrier from further away due to speed ..D-Cat does it from not so much coming from distance to steal tge puck but by anticipating the puck will be on a puck carrier's stick and going to near that spot in advance then using his quick stick to get the puck. .These are 2 verydifferentvwaysvto effect steaks/transitioning to attack chances in the o-zone. SCHMALTZ is better at using his speed to check in the d-zone..but as far as playmaking I dispute the assertion he is so superior to D-cat .

But Beyond even playmaking. .D-Cat can flatnoutvscore goals with that shot and his uncanny ability to release super fast and to find open spaces to do that ..Few in the NHL can score goals as snipers ..do you simply cannot keep that off a team ..Naybevthe pissibiliry of D-Cat Schmaltz Hossa as line #3 would work
.you get Schmaltz setting up D-Cat for snipes. You get D-cat setting up Hossa Better than anyone Hossa chaps yet played with. BUT if Hossa at 38 going n 39 next season starts the bold man fade ..then you have to shove hom down from line #3 to line #4 (this will hapoen sometime in the last 4 years of his contract ..so if not next season then the one after that or the 2 after that) ...You coukd have others vying for a 3W spot ...Fortin ..
just to name one..

You could also have a 4th line of

Hartman Schmaltz Kero/Hino

And a 3rd line of

D-Cat Highmore Hossa

You could have a 3 Rd line of


D-Cat Highmore Schmaltz

Or D-Cat Schmaltz Highmore *

* Highmore would however take draws as he is ecellent at faceoffs.

Line #4 could then be:

Hartman Kero /Hossa


So yes...plenty of options..And what if Shalunov signs?

Point is Q will find the best solutions. .But with Kruger gone for cap relief I think Highmore gets in somewhere..because of faceoffs and pk ability on addition to being a good 200 foot player ,speed and playmaking ability..but because he does a lit well you gotta find axspitvforvhim at C or RW with faceoff role.

That's a bit hyperbolic, let alone debatable. Schmaltz is doing it in the NHL and doing it really well. Let's see DeBrincat do it better at the NHL level before making claims like this. And I'm a big fan and believer in DB, it's taking nothing away from him.
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
That's a bit hyperbolic, let alone debatable. Schmaltz is doing it in the NHL and doing it really well. Let's see DeBrincat do it better at the NHL level before making claims like this. And I'm a big fan and believer in DB, it's taking nothing away from him.

This.
 

Killer Boots Man

Registered User
Jul 8, 2015
128
3
When Anisimov comes back, I'd like to see Q try out Hayden at 3C with Hossa and Hartman. We know Schmaltz can perform on the top line, and he's filled in pretty well at 2C, but he really sucks at the dot. Like really bad. Asking him to center may be too much for him. He's still only 20...two years younger than Hayden.

When Anisimov gets back, Hayden will have had a month of playing next to Toews on the top line. Great training for a move to his natural position and he looks like he learns quick. Hayden was drafted as a center and modeled his game after Toews. He could make that third line a real threat.

This is a week old, but a good read:

Hayden finished his senior season tied for eighth among goal scorers in Division I hockey, and tied for 59th among point leaders. He was also a beast on the power play, with 12 of his 21 goals coming with the man advantage. That’s tied for fifth nationally in college hockey.

Another area to get excited about Hayden, particularly in terms of projecting him at the next level, is that he’s an absolute shot machine. The forward led Yale with 174 shots on goal, and nobody else on the team had more than 84. Hayden was operating on an entirely different level offensively for the Bulldogs, and averaging nearly 5.3 shots per game is nothing to scoff at...

As team captain at Yale, Hayden said he used Jonathan Toews as inspiration for how to approach the position.

“You look at Chicago, I think Jonathan Toews is considered the best captain in the league for a reason,” said Hayden. “He’s got a ton of respect in the locker room from what I understand, and he shows it on the ice. For me, I think it’s about setting the tone with my play and trying to lead by example with energy.”

He’s also aware of the Blackhawks’ recent push toward getting younger, which obviously bodes well for his prospects of landing a gig soon.

“It’s very encouraging. I’m pretty close with Motter, Schmaltzy [Nick Schmaltz], Vinnie [Hinostroza] and Hartzy,” Hayden said. “I’ve spent time with them the last few summers. They’re doing a good job. Yeah, definitely encouraging to see that.”...

Hayden just finished a very good year, he’s built like a truck, and he’s already 22 years old. This isn’t quite the same as throwing Nick Schmaltz into the fire at age 20 following an offseason of relative down time.
 

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