Confirmed with Link: Hawks sign John Hayden

[EbonyRaptor]

Hayden is legit.

I'm leery to make a definitive assessment on a player after only 4 games, but I think it's fair to say he's done enough to give us a hefty dose of optimism. He moves better than I feared he might and I'm very impressed that he uses his size effectively in hitting and battling in the slot and on the boards. He's shown good defensive awareness in all 3 zones and although he hasn't shown the same adeptness to cycle the puck as some of Toews other wingers over the years, he also shows he knows where to go and what to do in the attack zone.

Now, he has to keep doing it. Some players back it down a little bit once they feel they "made it" - he must not do that, so we'll have to watch and see how he handles himself going forward. But so far so good.

 

[Pez68]

Hayden is literally a nifty moose. Great hands / intangibles. Almost want to say ... kind of captain like charisma / IQ.

Hayden's going to have to improve his skating a bit (speed). If he does, the upside is immense.

It's nice to have a big moose protecting / feeding off our little guys again. It's funny when Hayden hits people. It's measured and slow ... but receivee goes down like a ton of bricks nonetheless.

In the limited amount of time I've seen him, speed isn't the issue. It's his footwork and edges. Agility and acceleration. Once he gets going, his speed is fine. He is having no trouble keeping up. He can definitely improve his skating though.

 

[Blue Liner]

In the limited amount of time I've seen him, speed isn't the issue. It's his footwork and edges. Agility and acceleration. Once he gets going, his speed is fine. He is having no trouble keeping up. He can definitely improve his skating though.

Beat me to it. Agreed on all counts.

 

[Blue Liner]

At one point in time all of those players looked like above average prospects. Along with Clendening and Johns. They all produced just as well as Hartman in the AHL.

Hartman got called up infinitely sooner than McNeil ever did and actually did some things at the NHL level his first trip. He wasn't spectacular but he fit in and you had reason to believe he was going to fit long-term at some point in the not too distant future.

Schmaltz was a 1st Round pick with heralded upside, I don't really ever think him and Pirri were ever on the same plane. They certainly weren't for me. Schmaltz is infinitely more talented a player than Pirri is.

They may have gotten some luck in getting this much out of Panik, but a large part of that is who Panik gets to play with and he's made the most of it. Him getting to play with talented players isn't luck, that was built.

Drawing Hayden as a parallel to Hayes...ok. Hayden is his own player and a much smarter one which is why I think he'll be the better NHL player of the two. Hayes was okay in his time here and has had some decent seasons in the league. Not exactly a bum. I think the organization feels much higher about Hayden than they ever did Hayes, personally. And Q clearly likes him, so it bodes much better of his opportunities going forward.

I don't know, I just never really saw any of the parallels you've drawn. Just different ways of seeing things, I guess. As you said, it's all working out well and that's all that matters.

 

[mikee]

Because they are not privy to the information, I think fans fail to recognize the impact personality and work habits can have when a team makes personnel decisions. Talent does not always win out over good practice habits, leadership and just being likable. Management will make some exceptions for rare talents. But a guy like Pirri or Hayes? Guys that, sure were marginally more talented than others guys at the time, but is a marginal talent gap enough to overlook the fact that the player may not fit in with the others in the locker room, or struggles to take teaching, etc.?

I have no doubt that good guys like Tootoo and Rozy keep sticking around because the coaches and the other players love having them around, they are respected (and show respect in turn). Remember, the team doesn't just see each other for the 3 hours every couple of nights like the fans do. They practice with each other, have meetings together, and when on the road live with each other. They spend a ton of time together.

When you at your job do you do your best work when a coworker gets on your nerves or fails to follow the same rules or instructions that apply to you?

 

[BobbyJet]

Would have liked to have seen a few replays of it.

It's part of these highlights:

https://www.nhl.com/blackhawks/video/lears-look-rally-spoiled/t-277437096/c-50622303

 

[zac]

What are you even talking about? If you are going to call me stupid at least read the post I quoted because not you look rather foolish considering we were talking about playmaking ability and how saying Schmaltz is not on the same level as Debrincat is exaggerated considering the fact that Schmaltz is already doing it at the NHL level.

To simplify: I was agreeing that Schmaltz is a top flight prospect who is already performing in the NHL and saying he does not have the skill of an OHL player is asinine.

Sorry then.

 

[zac]

Is putting Kessel on the 3rd line extremely stupid as well? Pens won a Cup with him there.

Putting Schmaltz on the 3rd line brings a lot of balance to our lineup.

Hayden Toews Panik
Party
Hartman Schmaltz Hossa

That is just sick.

They aren't even close to being the same player, let alone the teams being the same.

There is no coincidence that Toews really got going when Scmaltz was put on his line. Schmaltz has the speed to initiate transition, gain the zone, which allows Toews to do his thing. Moreover Schmaltz is a playmaker who (thus far) has displayed a tremendous defensive acumen. Putting Schmaltz with Toews makes 19 BETTER and it allows Schmaltz to utilize his talents.

I think responsibility and playmaking wise Schmaltz can handle center right now. But I don't like the idea of a guy struggling to win 40% of his draw on a shutdown third line. Moreover I don't like the idea of putting our 3 best defensive forwards (outside of Toews) on the same line, especially when one of those players has 60 point potential.

It's a much better fit to have Schmaltz on the top line and Hayden on the 3rd. Better balance and better utilization of talent. Hossa and Hartman are more than good enough to hold that line defensively and Hayden brings a tough net presence with a good snipe.

 

[Panzerspitze]

They aren't even close to being the same player, let alone the teams being the same.

There is no coincidence that Toews really got going when Scmaltz was put on his line. Schmaltz has the speed to initiate transition, gain the zone, which allows Toews to do his thing. Moreover Schmaltz is a playmaker who (thus far) has displayed a tremendous defensive acumen. Putting Schmaltz with Toews makes 19 BETTER and it allows Schmaltz to utilize his talents.

I think responsibility and playmaking wise Schmaltz can handle center right now. But I don't like the idea of a guy struggling to win 40% of his draw on a shutdown third line. Moreover I don't like the idea of putting our 3 best defensive forwards (outside of Toews) on the same line, especially when one of those players has 60 point potential.

It's a much better fit to have Schmaltz on the top line and Hayden on the 3rd. Better balance and better utilization of talent. Hossa and Hartman are more than good enough to hold that line defensively and Hayden brings a tough net presence with a good snipe.

Except Hayden's shoot-first mentality is more beneficial to the Toews' line, even with Panik already on board.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Except Hayden's shoot-first mentality is more beneficial to the Toews' line, even with Panik already on board.

So the arguement is what type of player fits with Toews better? A nimble playmaker who is reluctant to shoot, or a physical power forward who loves to shoot?

 

[piteus]

So the arguement is what type of player fits with Toews better? A nimble playmaker who is reluctant to shoot, or a physical power forward who loves to shoot?

The beauty of Toews is that he can assimilate to either. However, considering Toews is not a natural goal scorer ... a power forward with good hands is probably more preferable.

Regardless, Toews is a possession guy. To maximize his talents, he needs to play with guys who can hold the puck / cycle.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Toews is doing just fine without Schmaltz babysitting him.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

He models himself after Toews ...
He is playing with Toews ...
What if we have a Toews light so to speak?
Even though he plays heavier!

Pump the brakes. Hayden has played well, but it's 4 games.

 

[crazyhawk]

Pump the brakes. Hayden has played well, but it's 4 games.

I did say what if ... not we have ...

 

[piteus]

Pump the brakes. Hayden has played well, but it's 4 games.

This is a message board where irrational thoughts are welcome. Maybe we found the next Cam Neely.

 

[BobbyJet]

Pump the brakes. Hayden has played well, but it's 4 games.

This is a message board where irrational thoughts are welcome. Maybe we found the next Cam Neely.

Normally I would agree but there is nothing complicated about Hayden and his game. In my mind there were two "what ifs" for this guy:

1/ What about his skating
2/ Can he make the transition from College

His skating is adequate and his ability to transition is more psychological than anything and he doesn't seem the least bit intimidated. I still think it will be difficult for Q to keep him out of the line-up.

Hawks after Bickell is a team that has had a yearning for a PF with a shoot first mentality who can snipe and so far it looks like Hayden fits the bill perfectly.

 

[jaysoneil]

Normally I would agree but there is nothing complicated about Hayden and his game. In my mind there were two "what ifs" for this guy:

1/ What about his skating
2/ Can he make the transition from College

His skating is adequate and his ability to transition is more psychological than anything and he doesn't seem the least bit intimidated. I still think it will be difficult for Q to keep him out of the line-up.

Hawks after Bickell is a team that has had a yearning for a PF with a shoot first mentality who can snipe and so far it looks like Hayden fits the bill perfectly.

Agreed. Hayden's facial expressions and focus on the ice are comparable to Toews. Notice even when the play is dead, he's focused. On the bench, focused. He's also vocal on the bench per Pierre McGuire. He shows a lot of confidence.

His hockey IQ is past his years and he's a mentally sound hockey player. Let's see if he can sustain his consistency.

 

[Pez68]

Because they are not privy to the information, I think fans fail to recognize the impact personality and work habits can have when a team makes personnel decisions. Talent does not always win out over good practice habits, leadership and just being likable. Management will make some exceptions for rare talents. But a guy like Pirri or Hayes? Guys that, sure were marginally more talented than others guys at the time, but is a marginal talent gap enough to overlook the fact that the player may not fit in with the others in the locker room, or struggles to take teaching, etc.?

I have no doubt that good guys like Tootoo and Rozy keep sticking around because the coaches and the other players love having them around, they are respected (and show respect in turn). Remember, the team doesn't just see each other for the 3 hours every couple of nights like the fans do. They practice with each other, have meetings together, and when on the road live with each other. They spend a ton of time together.

When you at your job do you do your best work when a coworker gets on your nerves or fails to follow the same rules or instructions that apply to you?

Great post, and I have to agree.

 

[Any Colour You Like]

I think you start with Hayden on the top line just for the sake of balancing out the roster, but if things need a shakeup once the POs start, put Schmaltz back on Toews's wing.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Hayden and Jayes comparisons are off. They both have size. Hayden utilizes his much better.

 

[piteus]

Hayden and Jayes comparisons are off. They both have size. Hayden utilizes his much better.

Hayden also doesn't have a brother who's delusional about his hockey abilities.

 

[ClydeLee]

Jayes was a big guy skilled enough to not use his size and outskill lower talent at college/prior... Hayden has been using his size and power notably in the college level which is helping him because he doesn't have to learn to do that for the NHL.

 

[DPHawk]

Hayden also doesn't have a brother who's delusional about his hockey abilities.

Huh? Seems to me Kevin Hayes had a pretty good understanding of his ability and where would be a good fit for himself. Don't see anything delusional about him.

 

[x Tame Impala]

You guys, Hayden is still enrolled at Yale, is on his spring break, and will have finals to study for while in the playoffs

 

[ChiHawks10]

You guys, Hayden is still enrolled at Yale, is on his spring break, and will have finals to study for while in the playoffs

He goes to Yale. He's a smart guy. I'm sure he can handle it all.