Has Keefe been the most flexible leaf coach in the last 3 decades???

[ACC1224]

Certainly hasn't come out when I was expecting it.

That's the genius part.

 

[Cams]

2 most embarrassing losses as a Leaf? TB being swept by Columbus after setting a record has to be the worst loss.

However, it did seem to fire them up and they won the Cup the next two years so there is optimism the Leafs really felt humiliated last year and are readu to do something about it

I'd agree the Montreal loss is up there, I still don't think the Columbus loss was a huge upset/embarrassment - they were even in points thru the season, two different styles - the Leafs certainly weren't a slam dunk bet. I think people get uncomfortable because it was Columbus - you know....a new but not new franchise. I would think losing to Boston after being up 4-1 in the 3rd would top either of the last 2.

I just think there is something different about the team this year.....they seem very well rounded in most aspects. Even the numbers are showing a team that can score, and keep the puck out, and is a top team in the PK and PP - that is something that hasn't been the case recently. It was always a case of not being to able to sustain outscoring the opposition, or a great PP, but only middle of the pack at best PK.

 

[1specter]

He's certainly been able to spread his cheeks open farther each playoffs.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

I'd agree the Montreal loss is up there, I still don't think the Columbus loss was a huge upset/embarrassment - they were even in points thru the season, two different styles - the Leafs certainly weren't a slam dunk bet. I think people get uncomfortable because it was Columbus - you know....a new but not new franchise. I would think losing to Boston after being up 4-1 in the 3rd would top either of the last 2.

I just think there is something different about the team this year.....they seem very well rounded in most aspects. Even the numbers are showing a team that can score, and keep the puck out, and is a top team in the PK and PP - that is something that hasn't been the case recently. It was always a case of not being to able to sustain outscoring the opposition, or a great PP, but only middle of the pack at best PK.

The only reason Leafs were neck and neck with Columbus on paper is because we under achieved during the regular season that year. Sucked with Babcock, best team in the league for a bit with Keefe, then played some of the worst team hockey in the last 5 years for much of the second half until covid hit and ended the regular season. It was really hard to keep my eyes open for a lot of games in 2020. I don't think many people would agree Leafs and Jackets were actually in the same tier that year. The 5 month break rested everyone up too, we had some injuries in Feb/March. Things should have went back to normal.

 

[Voodoo Child]

I like that he’s flexible and willing to experiment, you never know where you’ll find chemistry.

Mitch and Auston are being ridden hard - they’re not getting circus minutes like McDavid (25+ in 3 of the last five just f***ing WHY!!!?) but none of this ‘Play 17 minutes until I decide you’re a vet’ shit Babcock was all about, in addition to his mind games and splitting.

Joe Thornton was slow and old and his slowness and oldness directly contributed to Paul Byron’s short handed GWG in game one last year, I hope this is a lesson learned - unless somehow Sid or Kane comes in a few years, vets do the best work nobody sees.

However, his handling of young players is tremendous. Just a bit ago Liljegren was having a tough time, but did he get nailed to the bench and healthy scratched? He was back in there next game after coming from concussion protocol, Babcock would have made him spend five games in the press box. Players like to feel confident.

The special teams are finally stable, those Babcock teams had great power plays, but mid pack at best PK and it’d always bite at the worst time, like against Boston.

He seems to be able to adapt and own his mistakes, Mike Babcock is Mike Babcock, and it’s you who’s is wrong.

There are still too many too many men penalties, and the team still takes too many periods off, but he could have been a lot worse.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I have been paying close attention to the way Keefe manages this team since he started in comparison to past leaf coaches (Babcock, Carlyle, Wilson, Maurice, Quin, Burns)

I also feel like he listens to the fanbase or atleast takes note of the opinions of the fan base whenever he tinkers with the line ups. (Aside from Martin Marincin)

He's stacked lines, played stars with stars and gives players as much confidence as he could... For example he is going to start marazek against the canes because he wants the team to win this one for him, when he could of played the better goalie in Campbell. He plays players in their home town or against former teams and sometimes gives them the opening face off (Spezza against Ottawa) he tries to fit in prospects into the line up if they are heating up (aside from maybe waiting on Lilly abit too long). He's just been a player's coach and also a fanbase coach... He's doing all the right things in my opinion.

I think we are spoiled with him as a coach and I know he's been out coached in the playoffs but you can tell he's trying to adjust and learn from it (he hasn't been in the NHL long)

He's been by far my favorite coach since the Burns era.. IMO he's surpassed Quin (not in credentials but you know what I mean). This guys been doing everything he can to maximize his line up and left it to the stars to show their worth.

Everytime I notice the fanbase scream and cry for something particular to be tested he eventually tries it out almost like he has an account on here lol.

Spoiled? He has an elite roster and so far he has failed to win a playoff series, that main change but until it does we aren't spoiled to have him as coach

 

[cupcrazyman]

The Team is in massive trouble if any of them start listening to the fans.
I don't believe they do.

So you don't care for Harold Ballard Bobble Head Night ?

 

[Gary Nylund]

The only reason Leafs were neck and neck with Columbus on paper is because we under achieved during the regular season that year. Sucked with Babcock, best team in the league for a bit with Keefe, then played some of the worst team hockey in the last 5 years for much of the second half until covid hit and ended the regular season. It was really hard to keep my eyes open for a lot of games in 2020. I don't think many people would agree Leafs and Jackets were actually in the same tier that year. The 5 month break rested everyone up too, we had some injuries in Feb/March. Things should have went back to normal.

I agree. As much as people want to say that was a close matchup, I think most of us expected us beat CLB. Except for Johnsson we were 100% healthy, no excuses at all IMO.

The special teams are finally stable, those Babcock teams had great power plays, but mid pack at best PK and it’d always bite at the worst time, like against Boston.

He seems to be able to adapt and own his mistakes, Mike Babcock is Mike Babcock, and it’s you who’s is wrong.

I will say that the PP basically cost us last season and that's on Keefe, period. Maybe he can adapt and own his mistakes, but with that PP he should have adapted sooner. This year they're great again (so far), I don't really see any excuse for this not getting fixed for the playoffs.

I know some people hate to hear it but we need to win in the playoffs. So give Keefe a ton of credit for how the team has played since he took over during the regular season, but he deserves his share of the blame for the playoff losses, same as the players.

Hopefully the PP keeps rolling and everything else too (mostly Campbell). Teams looking good, Campbell looks good, this spring is yet another chance to turn a new page in this teams history. I like Keefe, I hope this spring the team does well.

 

[egd27]

I still don't think the Columbus loss was a huge upset/embarrassment - they were even in points thru the season, two different styles - the Leafs certainly weren't a slam dunk bet.

I've seen it argued many times that the reason for the poor regular season results was squarely on Babcock, and once Keefe took over the Leafs were an elite team. So something doesn't add up if you are correct.

 

[ACC1224]

I've seen it argued many times that the reason for the poor regular season results was squarely on Babcock, and once Keefe took over the Leafs were an elite team. So something doesn't add up if you are correct.

It does if you talk out of both sides of your mouth

 

[zeke]

I've seen it argued many times that the reason for the poor regular season results was squarely on Babcock, and once Keefe took over the Leafs were an elite team. So something doesn't add up if you are correct.

the regular season results under Keefe have definitely been better, moving from good team to elite team.

but we went from losing in the playoffs because we were outplayed, to now losing in the playoffs while outplaying the other team because we're choking.

if they can stop choking, though, the outplaying the other team should end up serving them well.

 

[Dough72]

^you left out the part where the Dubas/Keefe leafs played inferior teams. Losing to Boston sucked but losing to Montreal and Columbus was an embarrassment. And so was the Dubas/Keefe "flexible" strategy for both series to pretend you an skate merrily through the neutral zone like it's the regular season coupled with outright delusion that physicality is not necessary in hockey, so what should be a golden age of Leafs hockey is already mired in embarrassing playoff losses which even casual fans can tell are partly the result of a team that has never been made comfortable with hitting and young stars that years later still look shook whenever the playoff hitting starts

 

[SoftDumpNtheCorner88]

Just an experiment.

Everyone seems to be calling for Keefe to put Micheyev on the 2nd line, in the next 3-5games if he starts putting Micheyev on the second line, hes got an account on here.

I'm calling it

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I agree. As much as people want to say that was a close matchup, I think most of us expected us beat CLB. Except for Johnsson we were 100% healthy, no excuses at all IMO.



I will say that the PP basically cost us last season and that's on Keefe, period. Maybe he can adapt and own his mistakes, but with that PP he should have adapted sooner. This year they're great again (so far), I don't really see any excuse for this not getting fixed for the playoffs.

I know some people hate to hear it but we need to win in the playoffs. So give Keefe a ton of credit for how the team has played since he took over during the regular season, but he deserves his share of the blame for the playoff losses, same as the players.

Hopefully the PP keeps rolling and everything else too (mostly Campbell). Teams looking good, Campbell looks good, this spring is yet another chance to turn a new page in this teams history. I like Keefe, I hope this spring the team does well.

Didn't Muzzin get hurt that series with that awkward fall? Even still, we should not have lost that series. We lost because we couldn't score and Freddy gave up 2 softies in the last game

 

[LeafGrief]

lmao, Sheldon Keefe does not waste a single moment of his time thinking about what the fans want to see. Idk why you'd try and delude yourself into thinking that Keefe cares about what goes on here. This website (and sport fandom in general) is a cesspool of unintelligible discourse that is almost entirely detached from reality. This place is fun when you're in the right mood for it, and there are some very smart people around who's opinions I trust, but 99% of what gets posted is a big ol' yikes.

What you have identified is that Keefe is not afraid of the line blender, and are extrapolating that into some pretty fantastical conclusions. He does not try stuff because the fans want it. He tries stuff because that is his literal job. Meanwhile, the infinite monkeys with infinite typewriters mean that a few fans have pre-empted what he was going to try. Maybe that line tinkering even makes sense, but it sure as hell isn't because he was paying attention to whatever drivel I posted that day.

Keefe is a good enough coach in my opinion. He has yet to really be a difference maker, but he's certainly not holding the team back. If god forbid we lose in the first round again and Dubas gets fired, I would hope that the new GM keeps Keefe on. There are more than enough bad coaches out there.

 

[Confucius]

The Team is in massive trouble if any of them start listening to the fans.
I don't believe they do.

Don't underestimate the combined voice of thousands. Much like asking the audience in game shows the majority are seldom if ever incorrect.

 

[SoftDumpNtheCorner88]

Don't underestimate the combined voice of thousands. Much like asking the audience in game shows the majority are seldom if ever incorrect.

This.. of course you can't give in to a fanbase that's up and down with every won and loss, but we're all watching the game too, and we all agree on what the holes are that need to be filled without Keefe or Dubas mentioning it in detail. Top 4 D, LW scoring, depth. Toughness and player to move bodies out of our crease.

Keefe has been tinkering with the lines, almost in tune with how we also see the game.


Like I said before... The fans are asking for Mik to be given more looks on the 2nd line since it's gone stale the last 10games... I want to see if Keefe starts to play him there...


It's not to say that we have a coach that obeys the fanbase... Instead I see it as is not having a STUBBORN coach with a big EGO, That refuses to see what we all see... It's nice to know we have a coach that will change things on the fly to spark the team.

 

[Confucius]

This.. of course you can't give in to a fanbase that's up and down with every won and loss, but we're all watching the game too, and we all agree on what the holes are that need to be filled without Keefe or Dubas mentioning it in detail. Top 4 D, LW scoring, depth. Toughness and player to move bodies out of our crease.

Keefe has been tinkering with the lines, almost in tune with how we also see the game.


Like I said before... The fans are asking for Mik to be given more looks on the 2nd line since it's gone stale the last 10games... I want to see if Keefe starts to play him there...


It's not to say that we have a coach that obeys the fanbase... Instead I see it as is not having a STUBBORN coach with a big EGO, That refuses to see what we all see... It's nice to know we have a coach that will change things on the fly to spark the team.

I agree and when I say the majority are seldom mistaken, I don't mean the hot takes in GDT'S or PGT's. Now the comments there are impulse.

 

[Bluelines]

If by most flexible you mean only able to coach one way, then yes I would agree with you. Marner-Matthews and Tavares-Nylander , Brodie-Rielly, Muzz- Holl ... Covid and injuries aside how many full games has he deviated from that "flexible" line up over the last 3 years?