Has Connor Bedard quietly became underrated ?

[CallMeShaft]

He's 19 and he's on the worst team in the NHL.

Yep. People should take a look at the stats for the Hawks players, this year and last, and compare it to literally any other team this season.

Take San Jose for example, Celebrini is an allstar, but he's got a shit ton more help on that team offensively than Bedard has ever had in Chicago. Granlund has the highest PPG for the Sharks (MC included) and he's currently over a PPG. Bedard has had to be the best player offensively for the Hawks, and the best player he had to play with last season was Kurashev with 54pts in 75 games; Nick Foligno was the 3rd best forward on that team with 17pts less than Kurashev.

Michkov, meanwhile, is playing on a team where he's not THE guy; Travis Koneckny is. Koneckny has 36pts in 30 games. MM is impressing with 27pts in 28 games, but again, he's playing with a guy who is over a PPG. Bedard's best teammate offensively last year was at 0.72.

There is an 8pt difference between Bedard (24pts in 29 games) and Donato this season (Donato being 2nd on the Hawks right now) with Bedard playing 2 more games. The next best forward after that is Hall with 13 in 28.

He's not McDavid, he can't carry a team alone. And he is alone, on an island right now.

 

[ORRFForever]

If we stopped looking at pts and solely focus on how these players play the game, everything else would be irrelevant

I have NO idea what that means.

The kid is 19. If you want to say in the future, "I was the first to say Bedard is overrated", mission accomplished. But, until he gets older, it might be best to let it go.

 

[Bombshell11]

I have NO idea what that means.

The kid is 19. If you want to say in the future, "I was the first to say Bedard is overrated", mission accomplished. But, until he gets older, it might be best to let it go.

Yeah well he was advertised as a generational talent right? Last year people said he was as advertised. We're now year 2, we have more video to work with and the result is by the way he's playing the game, he's no where near to ever become that.

Why are we using age? he's still playing 20 mins per game, the most of any other player on his team, is it a coincidence that Donato has 16 pts when he's playing a whole 6 mins less than Bedard? Donato is scoring at a 2.41 pts per 60 mins while Bedard is doing 2.54 pts per game. Donato is -1 and Bedard is -10, is Bedard actually doing all that better with the opportunities he's getting? the -10 would suggest otherwise.

Is this a coincidence that Chicago is doing worst with Bedard on the ice than without him? its not. Im not saying they would be cotenders, of course not. What i am saying is he's actually making the chicago team worst with the way they're using him and that, even if he's just 19, its the NHL and the NHL is not a developement league... right now he's showing he's not ready for the big show and looks like a project rather than a 1st OA stud.

Michkov is 19 and he's scoring at a pace of 3.4 pts per 60 min. almost 40% more per usage...

Celebrini, 18, 2.89 pts per 60 mins.

Age has nothing to do here, its all about how they play, and the eye test shows that he's far below the reports from the media

 

[ORRFForever]

Age has nothing to do here

Of course it does. You are arguing for the sake of arguing and I won't be apart of it. Goodbye.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Yeah well he was advertised as a generational talent right? Last year people said he was as advertised. We're now year 2, we have more video to work with and the result is by the way he's playing the game, he's no where near to ever become that.

Why are we using age? he's still playing 20 mins per game, the most of any other player on his team, is it a coincidence that Donato has 16 pts when he's playing a whole 6 mins less than Bedard? Donato is scoring at a 2.41 pts per 60 mins while Bedard is doing 2.54 pts per game. Donato is -1 and Bedard is -10, is Bedard actually doing all that better with the opportunities he's getting? the -10 would suggest otherwise.

Is this a coincidence that Chicago is doing worst with Bedard on the ice than without him? its not. Im not saying they would be cotenders, of course not. What i am saying is he's actually making the chicago team worst with the way they're using him and that, even if he's just 19, its the NHL and the NHL is not a developement league... right now he's showing he's not ready for the big show and looks like a project rather than a 1st OA stud.

Michkov is 19 and he's scoring at a pace of 3.4 pts per 60 min. almost 40% more per usage...

Celebrini, 18, 2.89 pts per 60 mins.

Age has nothing to do here, its all about how they play, and the eye test shows that he's far below the reports from the media

Michkov and Celebrini have a hell of a lot more help than Bedard. Each of them have a teammate with a PPG (or higher) pace. Bedard's best teammate, offensively, is Donato, who is well under that pace.

Plus/Minus is a shit stat.

Donato has been surprisingly decent this season.

Bedard has had a sophomore slump. Still noticeably better than Donato this season, according to someone who has watched every game so far.

He was projected to be borderline generational. A step down from Crosby and McDavid, potentially a step up from everyone else.

While he hasn't been that step up from everyone else yet, he is not a project. 1st OAs don't usually play as well as Bedard has these last two seasons, even with his struggles. You thinking he's a project that needs to be in a development league says more about your knowledge of the game than it does his performance.

 

[Bombshell11]

Of course it does. You are arguing for the sake of arguing and I won't be apart of it. Goodbye.

Just say you have nothing to back your arguments, you came here with little knowledge, you probably haven't watched one game of his this year and just wanted to argue based off the stats you see on nhl.com, that was literally the only observations you made since you started commenting today.

Don't project your bad intentions on others. No one forced you to engage in a debate, i did my homework and brought you comparables? What did you bring to the conversation? Absolutely nothing.

 

[Bombshell11]

Michkov and Celebrini have a hell of a lot more help than Bedard. Each of them have a teammate with a PPG (or higher) pace. Bedard's best teammate, offensively, is Donato, who is well under that pace.

hes playing 6 mins less and much smaller shifts

Plus/Minus is a shit stat.

I understand it doesn't help your narrative

Donato has been surprisingly decent this season.

Thats the point, a random guy, producing nearly at the same pace as your 1st OA, doesn't that bother you? I know i was all over Slaf in his first year, are you not capable of staying objective with your own team?

Bedard has had a sophomore slump. Still noticeably better than Donato this season, according to someone who has watched every game so far.

We shouldn't even be talking about Donato... Bedard's problem is he doesn't have the tools to come out of the lot and take over shifts like the real elites do. Both mental and physical tools.

He was projected to be borderline generational. A step down from Crosby and McDavid, potentially a step up from everyone else.

He was projected to be the next McDavid and even potentially become the 2nd highest producer of all time by the end of his career. They compared his shot to Matthews... etc.

While he hasn't been that step up from everyone else yet, he is not a project.

I dint say hes a project, i said he looks like one.

1st OAs don't usually play as well as Bedard has these last two seasons, even with his struggles.

what? it takes 2 minutes to find out that 1st OA have had better starts than Bedard, in general, except the last decade, you're right. and except the busts as too like the Yakupovs

You thinking he's a project that needs to be in a development league says more about your knowledge of the game than it does his performance.

You're saying something i did not say and its disingenuous.

I was talking about his usage, hes playing way too much and hes not ready for it. He should be managed, some of the shifts he's playing 1:30 mins... like why ?

 

[Crow]

lol this thread

It’s going to be hilarious for years to come I hope.

It’s funny right now though Donato lol

 

[CallMeShaft]

hes playing 6 mins less and much smaller shifts



I understand it doesn't help your narrative



Thats the point, a random guy, producing nearly at the same pace as your 1st OA, doesn't that bother you? I know i was all over Slaf in his first year, are you not capable of staying objective with your own team?



We shouldn't even be talking about Donato... Bedard's problem is he doesn't have the tools to come out of the lot and take over shifts like the real elites do. Both mental and physical tools.



He was projected to be the next McDavid and even potentially become the 2nd highest producer of all time by the end of his career. They compared his shot to Matthews... etc.


I dint say hes a project, i said he looks like one.


what? it takes 2 minutes to find out that 1st OA have had better starts than Bedard, in general, except the last decade, you're right. and except the busts as too like the Yakupovs



You're saying something i did not say and its disingenuous.

I was talking about his usage, hes playing way too much and hes not ready for it. He should be managed, some of the shifts he's playing 1:30 mins... like why ?

You brought up Donato. Donato has 16pts, Bedard has 24. That's 50% more points for Connor.

2nd highest producer of all time? Nobody ever suggested anything like that. GTFOH.

 

[Yepthatsme]

hes playing 6 mins less and much smaller shifts



I understand it doesn't help your narrative



Thats the point, a random guy, producing nearly at the same pace as your 1st OA, doesn't that bother you? I know i was all over Slaf in his first year, are you not capable of staying objective with your own team?



We shouldn't even be talking about Donato... Bedard's problem is he doesn't have the tools to come out of the lot and take over shifts like the real elites do. Both mental and physical tools.



He was projected to be the next McDavid and even potentially become the 2nd highest producer of all time by the end of his career. They compared his shot to Matthews... etc.


I dint say hes a project, i said he looks like one.


what? it takes 2 minutes to find out that 1st OA have had better starts than Bedard, in general, except the last decade, you're right. and except the busts as too like the Yakupovs



You're saying something i did not say and its disingenuous.

I was talking about his usage, hes playing way too much and hes not ready for it. He should be managed, some of the shifts he's playing 1:30 mins... like why ?

I have no stake in this fight other than I’ve been following Bedard closely, but saying the 3rd youngest player in the NHL who has 24 points in 29 games on the 3rd worst offensive team in the NHL looks like a project is an all time take.

For those wondering at home how the the players on the 2 teams worse than Chicago are doing, prime Josi leads the Preds at 23 points where their best forward Forsberg is at 19, and Anaheim has one player above 13 points. But Bedard looks like a project. Remember that some posters have agendas when reading here people.

 

[Bombshell11]

I have no stake in this fight other than I’ve been following Bedard closely, but saying the 3rd youngest player in the NHL who has 24 points in 29 games on the 3rd worst offensive team in the NHL looks like a project is an all time take.

For those wondering at home how the the players on the 2 teams worse than Chicago are doing, prime Josi leads the Preds at 23 points where their best forward Forsberg is at 19, and Anaheim has one player above 13 points. But Bedard looks like a project. Remember that some posters have agendas when reading here people.

The only people with agendas here are those who are rallying to protect the NHL's interest in these boards.

I have no horses in this race either.

Its not like im saying Slaf is better than Bedard? What do i have to gain?

His 20mins a game are not warranted thats all im saying.

Donatos per min production nearly matches Bedard's but some people with agendas want to make us believe that Bedard is 50% more productive? No he' just playing more.

Chicago is not playing hockey at this point, they're playing the game of lets try to pad Bedard's stats as much as possible so we dont look like fools.

Nice try cowboys...not under my watch

 

[Yepthatsme]

The only people with agendas here are those who are rallying to protect the NHL's interest in these boards.

I have no horses in this race either.

Its not like im saying Slaf is better than Bedard? What do i have to gain?

His 20mins a game are not warranted thats all im saying.

Donatos per min production nearly matches Bedard's but some people with agendas want to make us believe that Bedard is 50% more productive? No he' just playing more.

Chicago is not playing hockey at this point, they're playing the game of lets try to pad Bedard's stats as much as possible so we dont look like fools.

Nice try cowboys...not under my watch

Ryan Donato has 16 points in 27 games. Anyone who is arguing he is just not getting the minutes to be close to a point per game player is deluded, and has not watched that man play a hockey game in his career.

 

[Bombshell11]

Anyone who is arguing he is just not getting the minutes to be close to a point per game player is deluded

Who made that argument?

 

[Yepthatsme]

Donatos per min production nearly matches Bedard's but some people with agendas want to make us believe that Bedard is 50% more productive? No he' just playing more.

Who made that argument?

The only difference between Donato and Bedard is minutes apparently, so you? Glad that you see that as foolhardy too though.

 

[Bombshell11]

The only difference between Donato and Bedard is minutes apparently, so you? Glad that you see that as foolhardy too though.

That was not an argument for Donato...

That was an argument that as a generational Junior Bedard should be at a higher pace than Donato.

The point was to highlight Bedard's true production per 60 minute which was low compare it with the other rookies and his own teamnates in order to provide some perspective. Michkov is at 3.4 per 60 mins, i said that but you dint bother to read it, you just wanted to be negative

 

[Yepthatsme]

That was not an argument for Donato...

That was an argument that as a generational Junior Bedard should be at a higher pace than Donato.

The point was to highlight Bedard's true production per 60 minute which was low compare it with the other rookies and his own teamnates in order to provide some perspective. Michkov is at 3.4 per 60 mins, i said that but you dint bother to read it, you just wanted to be negative

So if you’re argument is that is his per 60 rate puts him on par with Donato (who you say he should be out-producing handedly), then you agree that him and Donato are equivalent players and Donato would be near point per game given the same opportunity and situation?

Or your argument falls apart, and P/60 is a useless stat that ignores context. So which is it, by your opinion?

I read your point, it just doesn’t expand well and really lacks depth when critical thought is applied.

 

[Bombshell11]

So if you’re argument is that is his per 60 rate puts him on par with Donato (who you say he should be out-producing handedly), then you agree that him and Donato are equivalent players and Donato would be near point per game given the same opportunity?

Or your argument falls apart, and P/60 is a useless stat that ignores context. So which is it, by your opinion?

I read your point point, it just doesn’t expand well.

How is the 60 min rate more useless than the per game stat?

The context of Donato vs Bedard is that Bedard is playing better shifts than Donato and longer ones as well. Thus he should be out pacing Donato but he's not. Thats not Donato's fault, thats Bedard's fault.

The only context missing here is the quality of their shifts and this one hands down favours Bedard, thus providing further arguments to my point and simultaneously removing arguments from your point.

Is my point expanding well now?

 

[Yepthatsme]

How is the 60 min rate more useless than the per game stat?

The context of Donato vs Bedard is that Bedard is playing better shifts than Donato and longer ones as well. Thus he should be out pacing Donato but he's not. Thats not Donato's fault, thats Bedard's fault.

The only context missing here is the quality of their shifts and this one hands down favours Bedard, thus providing further arguments to my point and simultaneously removing arguments from your point.

Is my point expanding well now?

No it really isn’t, if you’ve ever watched a hockey game in your life and thought, “this Bedard and Donato fellows seem to be equivalent players”, your opinion is worth less than a sand dollar. Your argument stills falls in on itself and yet you’re doubling down.

I don’t know if that was supposed to be a “gotcha” moment in your head, but that was a hilarious statement.

To settle your point between what’s the difference between per game and per 60 stats, per game stats shows how a player handles the NHL, where per 60 stats show how a player handles his specific role. For the same reason your teams 3rd liner is not secretly a top line forward, a player who has high point per game stats with low P/60 is not secretly a bad player. It does not take a genius to see that MacKinnon being 12th in P/60 means he’s not the 12th best player this year, or that Dylan Strome is not better than McDavid despite having a better P/60 currently. You have picked the stats to make your argument, but you’ve picked some pretty terrible stats to do it.

Or do you believe that Necas is the by far front runner for the Hart Trophy with his play this season, as the de facto P/60 leader? If you don’t think he’s the Hart favorite, it would lead me to believe you don’t actually think leading/tying points per 60 makes you equivalent talents.