Has Anyone Not Named Gretzky, Lemieux or Orr ever dominated a year like Sakic?

[livewell68]

Didn't dominate that season as lemieux statistically did But who's bringing gretzky into this anyways. That's another story

It's not, it's relative to this discussion.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Someone has reading comprehension issues.

You asked if I've seen Kunitz play, I responded by saying yes I have and that he's a better player than you are giving him credit for and I gave stats to prove it.

What's your response?

Kunitz can barely make a play without losing the puck. He's a shooter period. Do you think Kunitz would have had made the all star team with crosby and his 41 assists in 36 games? No

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

It's not, it's relative to this discussion.

Gretzky was obviously a better player in 89 than crosby was in 14. Buts it's gretzky obv he will be. But crosby dominated the 14 season more than gretzky dominated the 89 season. Do you not get it?

 

[livewell68]

Kunitz can barely make a play without losing the puck. He's a shooter period. Do you think Kunitz would have had made the all star team with crosby and his 41 assists in 36 games? No

He still did. Crosby has played with many different players in his career, Kunitz had the most success, regardless of how much input Crosby had, Kunitz was still good enough to score those goals.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

He still did. Crosby has played with many different players in his career, Kunitz had the most success, regardless of how much input Crosby had, Kunitz was still good enough to score those goals.

I don't even know what is the bigger accomplishment

Thornton turning cheechoo into a richard winner or crosby turning Kunitz into a first team all star

 

[livewell68]

Gretzky was obviously a better player in 89 than crosby was in 14. Buts it's gretzky obv he will be. But crosby dominated the 14 season more than gretzky dominated the 89 season. Do you not get it?

No he didn't. Gretzky was more dominant in 1988-89 than Crosby was in 2013-14, it's not even a debate.

Winning the Hart isn't the end all and be all of measuring a player's dominance, neither is winning the Art Ross.

Orr was more dominant than his 3 Hart trophies say he was, in comparison, was Clarke as dominant a player as Orr because he also won 3 Hart trophies?

 

[livewell68]

I don't even know what is the bigger accomplishment

Thornton turning cheechoo into a richard winner or crosby turning Kunitz into a first team all star

Kunitz was a good player on his own. I don't see Crosby ever turning any other winger into an All-Star.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

No he didn't. Gretzky was more dominant in 1988-89 than Crosby was in 2013-14, it's not even a debate.

Winning the Hart isn't the end all and be all of measuring a player's dominance.

Orr was more than dominant than his 3 Hart trophies say he was, in comparison, was Clarke as dominant a player as Orr because he also won 3 Hart trophies?

I'm not saying gretzky wasent better in 89 than crosby in 14. I'm just saying that the 14 season belonged to crosby. He was 1st in every offensive category besides goals. And pace categories as well. While 89 belonged to lemieux statistically. Do you not get what I'm trying to say?

 

[livewell68]

I'm not saying gretzky wasent better in 89 than crosby in 14. I'm just saying that the 14 season belonged to crosby. He was 1st in every offensive category besides goals. And pace categories as well. While 89 belonged to lemieux statistically. Do you not get what I'm trying to say?

It doesn't matter who's season it belonged to, we are comparing seasons relative to others.

Fedorov was 2nd in scoring in 1993-94, lost the Art Ross by 10 Pts, he was however a more dominant player that season than Crosby was in 2013-14. Get what I'm trying to say?

BTW finishing 2nd in Pts, 2nd in goals, 3rd in assists can be as good or better than finishing 1st in Pts, 1st in assists and 7th in goals. If Crosby had been 2nd in goals, different discussion.

Jagr had 54 goals.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

It doesn't matter who's season it belonged to, we are comparing seasons relative to others.

Fedorov was 2nd in scoring in 1993-94, lost the Art Ross by 10 Pts, he was however a more dominant player that season than Crosby was in 2013-14. Get what I'm trying to say?

Relative to his peers he was not though. Maybe gameplay wise yes. But relative to his peers? Crosby was unarguably the best player in the 13-14 season. Dominant and better are different in a way

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

It doesn't matter who's season it belonged to, we are comparing seasons relative to others.

Fedorov was 2nd in scoring in 1993-94, lost the Art Ross by 10 Pts, he was however a more dominant player that season than Crosby was in 2013-14. Get what I'm trying to say?

BTW finishing 2nd in Pts, 2nd in goals, 3rd in assists can be as good or better than finishing 1st in Pts, 1st in assists and 7th in goals. If Crosby had been 2nd in goals, different discussion.

Jagr had 54 goals.

Crosby led 2 of the 3 main offensive categories. Jagr led none. So that can't be a more "dominant" season

 

[livewell68]

Relative to his peers he was not though. Maybe gameplay wise yes. But relative to his peers? Crosby was unarguably the best player in the 13-14 season. Dominant and better are different in a way

If you don't think Fedorov was more dominant in 1993-94 than Crosby was in 2013-14 then you are out to lunch.

Fedorov won the Hart in a walk and also won the Selke.

In comparison, Gretzky scored 130 Pts in 1993-94, won the Art Ross by 10 Pts but didn't get a single Hart vote.

It goes back to the notion that 2013-14 was a very poor year competition wise. Jagr in 1997-98 was as dominant as Crosby was in 2013-14 but lost the Hart to Hasek. Get my drift?

 

[CanadienShark]

How has no one named Sergei Fedorov yet?

His 93-94 season was one of the most dominant seasons of all time.

Hart Memorial Trophy (MVP) (first Euro to win the Hart)
Lester B. Pearson Award
Frank J. Selke Trophy
2nd in points (behind Wayne Gretzky)
2nd in goals (behind Pavel Bure)

He has to be one of the most underrated superstars in NHL history. I'm proud to call him my favourite player in history (and a little less proud to have been born within about 5-6 months after the season's completion). Though with both those previous sentences, I seem like a homer.

But seriously, he isn't given nearly the credit he deserves. Imagine a prime Datsyuk, but better. He's the main reason I ever watch any old time tapes (to me, they're old time ).

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

If you don't think Fedorov was more dominant in 1993-94 than Crosby was in 2013-14 then you are out to lunch.

Fedorov won the Hart in a walk and also won the Selke.

You are missing what I'm saying.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Lafleur had some great seasons

 

[crobro]

Todd bertuzzis 97 point year was incredible he was the best player in hockey that year.

 

[Hardyvan123]

I don't think you can finish second in points and goals and command a thread title like this.

Probably not in the sense that it's hard for guys to separate offense from total hockey and/or 2 way play, but the first player that came to mind is another guy who was 2nd in scoring in his Hart year, Feds who dominated more than Sakic did IMO.

 

[livewell68]

Todd bertuzzis 97 point year was incredible he was the best player in hockey that year.

Didn't Forsberg have a better year that same year?

 

[crobro]

Didn't Forsberg have a better year that same year?

Bertuzzi missed 10 games due to suspension that year

He also double shifted most of the year playing on the west coast express and playing on the sedin line.

 

[livewell68]

Bertuzzi missed 10 games due to suspension that year

Forsberg though was better all-around and I think Naslund carried the Canucks.

Actually check, Bertuzzi played all 82 games, he didn't miss a single game.

Todd Betuzzi was 9th in PPG.

 

[livewell68]

Bertuzzi missed 10 games due to suspension that year

He also double shifted most of the year playing on the west coast express and playing on the sedin line.

If that was the case then he would have averaged more than 20:34 minutes per game.

 

[livewell68]

Also if you mean the 2001-02 season, his PPG was 1.18, Iginla's was 1.17 and Jagr's was 1.14. He wasn't much better than either forward.

Iginla was most definitely the best forward in the NHL that season.

 

[Air Budd Dwyer]

If we're removing Gretzky and Lemieux from the equation, Steve Yzerman's 88/89 season would have been among the most dominant in history. Even with Gretzky and Lemieux in their primes, he picked up the Pearson award.

155 points, the most ever scored by anyone other than Gretzky or Lemieux. Bernie Nicholas, who we can safely assume was a product of Gretzky that year, had 150. The next highest was 115, and after that, 113 (both teammates of Lemieux). So, if Gretzky or Lemieux had never been born, that would have been a season for the record books by Yzerman.

This. What's more impressive about Yzerman's 155 point season is that nobody else on his team even reached 100 points. Gallant scored 93 points that year which made him 2nd on the team. I think I read once that Yzerman's 155 points is the only time a player scored, I think it was, 130 or 140 points without a teammate reaching 100. Talk about carrying a team.

 

[livewell68]

This. What's more impressive about Yzerman's 155 point season is that nobody else on his team even reached 100 points. Gallant scored 93 points that year which made him 2nd on the team. I think I read once that Yzerman's 155 points is the only time a player scored, I think it was, 130 or 140 points without a teammate reaching 100. Talk about carrying a team.

Not that it means anything but Yzerman's 1988-89 season (155 Pts) is only adjusted to 128 Pts in today's terms.

In comparison Jagr in 1995-96 is adjusted to 144 Pts, in 1998-99 adjusted to 145 and in 2000-01 adjusted to 131 Pts.

Here is a list of the best adjusted seasons in NHL history.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/points_adjusted_season.html

In modern times, the only player not named Lemieux or Gretzky who falls in the top is Jagr with his 1998-99 season being adjusted to 145 Pts or 5th best ever among players not named Gretzky or Lemieux.

I personally think very few have ever dominated the way Jagr did in 1998-99.

 

[Sadekuuro]

Bertuzzi was good for the first half of that '01-'02 season, but it was the second half when he really found his form and was tearing the league apart.

I also wouldn't say Fedorov's style was that similar to Datsyuk's, but I suppose them both being great two-way Russian centers invites comparison.