- Jul 30, 2016
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Hart Trophy Tournament (Post 2000's) Round 3: 2001 Sakic vs 2021 McDavid
- Thread starter blundluntman
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Connor McDavid, with due respect to Sakic's wonderful season.
MessierII
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- Aug 10, 2011
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McDavid breaking 100 points in that shortened year was thought to be impossible.
jigglysquishy
Registered User
Should be unanimous for McDavid. The most dominant season in NHL history outside the big four.
filinski77
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- Feb 12, 2017
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Agreed that McDavid is the answer for this poll.... but really the most dominant season in NHL history outside the big 4????
1) McDavid got smoked in the rocket race, and was only 10% ahead of #5 in the goals race.
2) Only half a season
3) The most important factor: He only played 6 different teams the whole year... How can you compare him against the league for "dominance" when he didn't even play the same teams that 75% of the rest of the league played....
4) Significant amounts of players/teams either missed time due to having COVID, or weren't playing at 100% overall. Really makes it hard to compare that season vs. a best-on-best normal NHL season.
Weird take for sure.
jigglysquishy
Registered User
I 100% stand by that statement. He didn't control 2, 3, or 4. If you want to discount that season from the discussion you can also exclude 1995 and 2013 (which is fine), but it's weird to remove a peak season from an all-time great for factors outside his control. The COVID season was weird, but McDavid played the best hockey of his life.
He put up more EVP than any non-teammate put up total points.
Gretzky did it multiple times in the 80s. Howe did it once (1953). That's it in NHL history.
Then he also lead the league in PPP. It's insane.
He put up 83 primary points in 56 games. If he got zero secondary assists he would still lead the league in points.
He was dialed in, focused, and played the best hockey of his career.
If you want to discount it because of the COVID weirdness, I get it. But it was McDavid at his very best.
McDavid’s season is difficult to get a full handle on due to the shortened season, 6 team schedule and the Covid situation, including racking up a bunch of points against the Covid ravaged Canucks when the games no longer mattered. I think it’s difficult to compare some of the point gap advantages in comparisons to other regular years. Still, I think we all saw the level he was playing at that year and I’d consider it above what Sakic was doing.
nowhereman
Registered User
I still like 22-23 more but it's close. Just not a huge fan of the context (i.e. North division where he largely beat up on the Canucks and Sens).
Agreed and that's why it's so difficult to compare different Hart seasons as league dynamics and Hart races really vary widely from year to year.
But to put his year into context even if we completely remove the Canucks and Sens games McDavid still has 62 points in 37 games good for 10th place that year in a tie with Crosby.
The 62 /37 rate would still have had him with 93 points overall with second place for a non team amte being Marchand with 67 points.
AM the goal scoring leader also had 19 goals against the Canucks/Sens while McDavid had 12 but the whole goal scoring over production thing gets over rated and is misplaced in the first place IMO.
I saw that MJ was on of the 2 people voting Sakic and I wonder why.......
JackSlater
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- Apr 27, 2010
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I'll go with McDavid but that was a great season by Sakic. There will always be awkwardness with the schedule in McDavid's season but I don't know what else he could have done given the league presented to him.
WalterLundy
Registered User
Great points here. Best season (along with 2023 McDavid) since 1993 Mario and like you said is only matched or surpassed by the big 4.
NordiquesForeva
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- May 30, 2022
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The points made above regarding the schedule McDavid played in 2020-21 have merit, imo, but the fact that he followed it up with another terrific season in 2021-22 and his best (imo) season in 2022-23 helps substantiate how good he was in 2020-21. Yes, he benefited from a questionable schedule in 2020-21 (as did other elite players), but he was as good, if not better, in the full, "normal" seasons that followed.
While Sakic's 2000-01 season was incredibly strong (perhaps stronger than McDavid's 2020-21 season if playoffs are considered) and he separated himself from the non-Mario/Jagr pack (and would have likely separated himself from everyone if Mario hadn't returned), I never got the sense while watching Sakic play that I was witnessing one of the very best 5 or 10 players to ever play. With McDavid, I do...and I think that's what the difference is. McDavid is just on a different level than everyone that's ever played the game except for 4 or 5 players imo.
While Sakic's 2000-01 season was incredibly strong (perhaps stronger than McDavid's 2020-21 season if playoffs are considered) and he separated himself from the non-Mario/Jagr pack (and would have likely separated himself from everyone if Mario hadn't returned), I never got the sense while watching Sakic play that I was witnessing one of the very best 5 or 10 players to ever play. With McDavid, I do...and I think that's what the difference is. McDavid is just on a different level than everyone that's ever played the game except for 4 or 5 players imo.
Some of these points are relevant, some not as much.
1. Goals/rocket. Sure, more goals is nice, but if you have less goals but compensante by even more points, that's usually a good tradeoff. And McDavid's point domination is bigger in 2021
2. 56 games. So if we're going to rank the greatest seasons, I agree, this takes a hit. It's why for example Lemieux 93 isn't the greatest season, and Gretzky has better ones. But if we're simply commenting on level of play/domination? I think it has an argument to be up there after the big 4 (just like you might compare Lemieux in 1993 more advantageously vs peak Gretzky when considering level of play/domination).
3. The 6 teams....I think this is a very weak argument. It was a very deep league (league is full of star in midst of prime in past few years) and he dominated much moreso than others in similar circumstances. Maybe you "adjust" for this aspect a tiny bit, but to me this is simply not that relevant.
4. Same as #3. Unless you can prove how McDavid benefited from this moreso than other star players in the league and that's why he ran away with the scoing race, that makes no sense.
Most dominant season outside of the big 4? Maybe
Best/Greatest season? I don't think so, because I think the 56 games hurts it vs McDavid 2023.
Would be nice to hear from some of the posters who surprisingly voted for Sakic, assuming they were serious votes.
Is it simply the 82 games vs 56, and refusal to vote for a short season vs a full one? Or does anyone have an actual argument to make for Sakic?
Is it simply the 82 games vs 56, and refusal to vote for a short season vs a full one? Or does anyone have an actual argument to make for Sakic?
NordiquesForeva
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- May 30, 2022
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I didn't vote for Sakic, but incorporating playoff performance into their vote could certainly be one reason. Though of course Hart votes are determined prior to the playoffs, so....
- Feb 10, 2010
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For me it's mostly the 56 game thing. Maybe that's unfair. I dunno I'm on the fence. The goal scoring is a piece in Sakic's favor. Sakic was also penalty killing 2 minutes per game.
Video Nasty
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- Mar 12, 2017
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I remember being among a handful of people who publicly thought 100 points that season was possible, so that alone tips it immediately in McDavid’s favor. Someone performing a feat that the majority thought was impossible says it all.
I mean Sakic was a bit better relative to the league but they were both 2nd in goals.
Hennessy
Ye Jacobites, by name
- Jul 30, 2016
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There's no objective criteria tbh, it's 50% "what would be the most interesting discussion" & 50% "try to avoid pitting the highest consensus seasons against one another too soon". The first rendition of round one had some pretty tough matchups but a fair amount of people agreed it'd be better to not make things too top heavy right out the gate.
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