blundluntman
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Hart Trophy Tournament (Post 2000's) Round 1: 2013 Ovechkin vs 2023 McDavid
- Thread starter blundluntman
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This one’s as easy as the Perry-McDavid one
Basically this Hart by Ovi is probably the weakest in this format.
- Feb 10, 2010
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Ovechkin was significantly better in 2013 on a per game basis than secondary Sid was in 2014.
Ov shouldn't have won that year it was Sids
Nathaniel Skywalker
DIG IN!!! RiGHT NOW!!!
- Oct 18, 2013
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Lol the weakest hart win in 30 years vs one of the strongest.
Actualyl he wasn't, but sure in games against the southeast division.
Ovi won the award by getting 50 first place votes but 3 other players got 38+ first place votes in contrast 14 Crosby received 128 first place votes the next guys 5,2 and (1 by a goalie).
Pretty much what this guy is saying
I don't know why people say Ovechkin's hart in 2013 was weak? I always thought it was a pretty strong showing and certainly "hart-worthy".
February 22nd 2013 - Washington is in last place in the league, 30th out of 30 teams in the league. 16 games into a 48 game season, or 1/3rd mark. Ovechkin with only 5 goals and 10 points in first 16 games.
Then - on February 23rd- they play NJ, who was 1st in the conference. Ovechkin breaks out with a hat trick, and 4 point game, including the game winner. This starts an in-season turnaround for Capitals and Ovechkin himself. He goes on to score 27 goals and 46 points in the remaining 32 games. Helps Washington make the playoffs, and win its actual division to enter with home ice advantage.
In terms of being MVP worthy and valuable to your team - I think it was a really strong performance.
Is McDavid 2023 better? Of course it is. I think it's going to win this tournament.
Did Crosby deserve the hart over Ovechkin in 2013? I think so yes. But it doesn't mean that the season itself wasn't quite strong for Ovechkin.
February 22nd 2013 - Washington is in last place in the league, 30th out of 30 teams in the league. 16 games into a 48 game season, or 1/3rd mark. Ovechkin with only 5 goals and 10 points in first 16 games.
Then - on February 23rd- they play NJ, who was 1st in the conference. Ovechkin breaks out with a hat trick, and 4 point game, including the game winner. This starts an in-season turnaround for Capitals and Ovechkin himself. He goes on to score 27 goals and 46 points in the remaining 32 games. Helps Washington make the playoffs, and win its actual division to enter with home ice advantage.
In terms of being MVP worthy and valuable to your team - I think it was a really strong performance.
Is McDavid 2023 better? Of course it is. I think it's going to win this tournament.
Did Crosby deserve the hart over Ovechkin in 2013? I think so yes. But it doesn't mean that the season itself wasn't quite strong for Ovechkin.
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Forwards aren't going to win the Hart when another player has more than twice as many goals.
WalterLundy
Registered User
The best non 21 or 23 McDavid season that is still active in this tournament is 2012 Malkin in my opinion. Ovi 08 also deserves consideration. Even with that said it’s obvious that 23 or 21 McDavid are clear mismatches for 2012 Malkin. Post 2000s those are the two best very clearly. You’d have to go back to 1995-96 Lemieux to see a season as good or close to either one and both McDavid years are still a little better than that. Last one that is clear cut better isn’t even within a 30 year window anymore that being 92-93 Lemieux.
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JackSlater
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McDavid's 2023 Hart is probably the best available over this span, Ovechkin's 2013 is one of the weakest. Significant gap.
End of Line
Sic Semper Tyrannis
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JackSlater
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Crosby shouldn't have won it that year either though, he missed a quarter of the season. He obviously would have won the Hart if he didn't get a puck in the face, but he did get a puck in the face.
Incognito
Registered User
Ovechkin didn’t even deserve the Hart that year, so McDavid is the obvious answer here.
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
Not that I want to make a federal case out of a thread that has a very obvious conclusion. But the voting was so close that one could theorize that if Crosby played one more game...hell, took one more shift, and was a minus just to tick over that whole "quarter of the season" psychological barrier, he probably wins it.
Also, if nothing else Crosby at least was only a neutral impact not being on the ice for those 12 (really 13, but that's what the box score does to us sometimes...)
Ovechkin's first 16 games (that's one-third for the "fun with numbers" angle of this 2013 season) - he was 5th on his team in points with 10 and a team-worst minus-8 and the Capitals were dead last in the entire league.
Possible net negative for one-third was deemed to be a better deal than neutral for one-fourth by the academy...
Numbers...remain fun.
JackSlater
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I threw a quarter out there in the same sense that I'd claim it regarding Jagr in 1999... I didn't remember that it was 12 out of 48 on the dot. Regardless, I'm not really sure that it was a barrier of it being a quarter of the season. Had Crosby played say, three more games that year and likely gotten the Art Ross, I think he resoundingly wins the trophy even though his actual value would not be significantly higher.
Voters want a story they can get behind. Ovechkin gave them a narrative to run with going down the stretch, not unlike Perry's Hart two years earlier, and that was that. Crosby winning the Art Ross despite missing 20% of the season, and after the injuries from the previous two years, would have been a better one. I think he made it so close in the same way Jagr did in 1999, where everyone knows who the best player is that year and a lot of people, not all, just want the best player to get it.
I do think that the 2013 Hart should have been paired up with the 2021 Hart in honour of them being the two seasons where the schedules were so unbalanced. It comes up regarding 2021 often, and while it is the more extreme case the 2013 season did give several of the top scorers extra opportunity to face off against league worst defences compared to a normal season. Not that the result for that poll would differ from this one.
Round 1 is now complete
blundluntman
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Due to having an odd number of seasons remaining after Round 1's completion, the #1 seed will be awarded a bye week during Round 2. The #1 seed will be awarded to the season with the highest win percentage from its matchup (I was originally going to do a poll to choose the #1 seed, but that would kinda defeat the purpose of the tournament).
At the time of this post, Connor McDavid's 2020-21 Season, which won its matchup with 79/80 votes (98.8%) has the highest winning percentage, thus will be awarded the #1 seed.
Big thanks to everyone that participated in the 1st Round of the tourney, looking forward to seeing how Round 2 goes.
At the time of this post, Connor McDavid's 2020-21 Season, which won its matchup with 79/80 votes (98.8%) has the highest winning percentage, thus will be awarded the #1 seed.
Big thanks to everyone that participated in the 1st Round of the tourney, looking forward to seeing how Round 2 goes.
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SkinsFan09
Registered User
I think Ovechkin should have won MVP 2008-10 and if this one went to 87 everything would be fine.
Hart votes are very much narrative driven. It's always been like this, certainly in recent years, and will continue to be.
You isolating Ovechkin's bad start to the season is factualy accurate. But flipside is - the rest of the way he was phenomenal, and he helped his team rise from last in league to top of division. Voters love a good story, and that's a good story.
I lean Crosby in 2013 for Hart too, but I defintely understand the Ovechkin votes and why he won.
Old Gregg
I'm Old Gregg!!
- Apr 13, 2010
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If secondary powerplay assists are your jam, then cool. Have at it.
But in terms of primary points, Crosby's 2014 season is among the very lowest in history for an Art Ross winner.
Yet another shortsighted metric like goals created which is goal centric eh.
But the real question is how you will deal with Crosby having more primary points than Ovechkin in less games eh?
JackSlater
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If we're just looking at the trophy to represent who was the best player in a given season then yeah Ovechkin should have three from 2008-2010 and Crosby would have gotten it in 2013. That's not what the Hart is for though (even if voters were correct every time) but anyone paying attention is aware that Ovechkin was the best player in the 2010 season, Hart or not, and Crosby was the best player in the 2013 season, Hart or not.
Both seasons are good examples of why trophy counting as a player comparison, at least when it comes to players who are comparable to each other, is lazy and often pointless.
