blundluntman
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- Jul 30, 2016
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Hart Trophy Tournament (1969-00) Round 2: 1987 Wayne Gretzky vs 1988 Mario Lemieux
- Thread starter blundluntman
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DitchMarner
TheGlitchintheSwitch
Gretzky had more to work with for sure. That's one point against him.
But even considering that, his ES to PP splits for points are far more impressive. He had 124 ES points and 46 PPP. Lemieux had more PP points than ESP (80 to 74).
In general, '87 Gretzky was still highly dominant. He broke 180 points while the second leading scorer had 108. Lemieux did pace for 136 points in a full season.
Conversely, in '88, Lemieux only beat Gretzky by 19 points despite playing 13 more games.
I don't think early peak Lemieux is quite better than late peak Gretzky even accounting for the differences in team and offensive support.
But even considering that, his ES to PP splits for points are far more impressive. He had 124 ES points and 46 PPP. Lemieux had more PP points than ESP (80 to 74).
In general, '87 Gretzky was still highly dominant. He broke 180 points while the second leading scorer had 108. Lemieux did pace for 136 points in a full season.
Conversely, in '88, Lemieux only beat Gretzky by 19 points despite playing 13 more games.
I don't think early peak Lemieux is quite better than late peak Gretzky even accounting for the differences in team and offensive support.
Video Nasty
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2017
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Gretzky.
Yet again, he outscored his closest teammate by 75 points.
For the crowd who normally fawns over EV goal scoring, he led the league in that too, and with his 7 SHG, scored nearly 80% of his goals at EV/SH.
Would have led the scoring race by 13 points if you removed all 62 of his goals.
Led Lemieux in PPG by 36.5%. Even if we project out Lemieux for a full season of work, Gretzky would have still led the scoring race by 47 points (Lemieux’s PPG in the first half before injury was virtually the same as what he did after returning in the second half).
Meanwhile, in 1987-1988, Lemieux only won because of Gretzky’s first big chunk of missed time in a season. Great season, but less impressive all around.
Then you apply real world context, Gretzky was older, had already played a ton of games, had played in 3 of the previous 4 SCF (deep run after deep run which would continue during both of these seasons), while Lemieux played 152 games entering 1986-1987 and 215 entering 1987–1988, and still wouldn’t play a playoff game until 1988-1989. That kind of wear and tear on Gretzky has to be acknowledged. He just kept performing at this all-time level year in and year out.
Yet again, he outscored his closest teammate by 75 points.
For the crowd who normally fawns over EV goal scoring, he led the league in that too, and with his 7 SHG, scored nearly 80% of his goals at EV/SH.
Would have led the scoring race by 13 points if you removed all 62 of his goals.
Led Lemieux in PPG by 36.5%. Even if we project out Lemieux for a full season of work, Gretzky would have still led the scoring race by 47 points (Lemieux’s PPG in the first half before injury was virtually the same as what he did after returning in the second half).
Meanwhile, in 1987-1988, Lemieux only won because of Gretzky’s first big chunk of missed time in a season. Great season, but less impressive all around.
Then you apply real world context, Gretzky was older, had already played a ton of games, had played in 3 of the previous 4 SCF (deep run after deep run which would continue during both of these seasons), while Lemieux played 152 games entering 1986-1987 and 215 entering 1987–1988, and still wouldn’t play a playoff game until 1988-1989. That kind of wear and tear on Gretzky has to be acknowledged. He just kept performing at this all-time level year in and year out.
These are two extremely close seasons for me.
Gretzky with the more points, Lemieux with more goals. Gretzky with a better team situation. Flip a coin. Neither of these seasons are a threat to win the tournament - both players have multiple better seasons than these.
Gretzky with the more points, Lemieux with more goals. Gretzky with a better team situation. Flip a coin. Neither of these seasons are a threat to win the tournament - both players have multiple better seasons than these.
- Feb 10, 2010
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IMO it's a tough call.
Gretzky had the better supporting cast by a very wide margin. It's hard to be the only superstar on a team. Gretzky also had the better productivity in terms of points and primary points (150 something to 127 or so) whereas Lemieux was a better goal scorer in this instance.
Gretzky had the better supporting cast by a very wide margin. It's hard to be the only superstar on a team. Gretzky also had the better productivity in terms of points and primary points (150 something to 127 or so) whereas Lemieux was a better goal scorer in this instance.
Nathaniel Skywalker
DIG IN!!! RiGHT NOW!!!
- Oct 18, 2013
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Lemieux. Was literally playing on and Island while Gretzky was on a dynasty.
Sure Gretzky wins the ross if he plays 80 but the numbers would have been projected
Gretzky 80-50-136-186
Lemieux 80-73-101-174
In this scenario mario still has the better season with goals and especially when u factor in team
Sure Gretzky wins the ross if he plays 80 but the numbers would have been projected
Gretzky 80-50-136-186
Lemieux 80-73-101-174
In this scenario mario still has the better season with goals and especially when u factor in team
Mario outscored his nearest teammate by 89 points although it would have been less if Coffey had played more than 46 games. But besides Coffey and Dan Quinn there wasn’t much on the Pens, Doug Bodger, 21 games from Craig Simpson, the first 16 NHL games of Kevin Stevens and future MVP of the IHL Robbie Brown.
Lafleurs Guy
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