Hart Trophy Tournament (1969-00) Round 1: 1978 Guy Lafleur vs 1993 Mario Lemieux

[blundluntman]

MATCHUP #9 (Round 1): Guy Lafleur (1978) vs Mario Lemieux (1993)

Guy Lafleur (1977-78):
78 Games Played 60 Goals 72 Assists 132 Points |1st in Points, 1st in Goals, 2nd in Assists, Art Ross, Pearson/Lindsay Award 1st AST

Mario Lemieux (1992-93):
60 Games Played 69 Goals 91 Assists 160 Points | 1st in Points, 3rd in Goals, 4th in Assists, Art Ross, Pearson/Lindsay Award, Masterton Trophy, 1st AST

Round 1 Matchups:
69 Esposito vs 99 Jagr Thread
70 Orr vs 72 Orr Thread
71 Orr vs 00 Pronger Thread
73 Clarke vs 82 Gretzky Thread
74 Esposito vs 91 Hull Thread
75 Clarke vs 98 Hasek Thread
76 Clarke vs 90 Messier Thread
77 Lafleur vs 80 Gretzky (Still Active) Thread
78 Lafleur vs 93 Lemieux
79 Trottier vs 94 Fedorov
81 Gretzky vs 87 Gretzky
83 Gretzky vs 86 Gretzky
84 Gretzky vs 85 Gretzky
88 Lemieux vs 89 Gretzky
92 Messier vs 95 Lindros
96 Lemieux vs 97 Hasek

Click to read more...

 

[TruePowerSlave]

The 92-93 season by Mario was absolutely insane, especially with the off ice stuff.

 

[bobholly39]

Definitely Mario Lemieux.

I think it might be hard for Mario Lemieux and his 60 games to contend with full seasons of Orr and Gretzky to win this tournament - but in terms of being most impressive or best level of play, it's definitely up there and would be in contention for #1.

Look at this statline after his return from chemo:

Game 1 upon return - March 2nd - 1 goal, 1 assist 2 points. Penguins lose game.
Game 2 upon return - March 5th - 0 points. Penguins lose again.

Hrmm....2 losses....0 points in 2nd game...should he have come back? Did he need more time? Is he back 100%?

Game 3 - 1 assist Penguins win
Game 4 - 4 points Penguins win
Game 5 - 1 point Penguins win
Game 6 - 6 points (4 goals) Penguins win
Game 7 - 5 points (4 goals), Penguins win
etc

I could keep going till the end of the year - but essentially, starting from game 3 of his return - this is what Lemieux & Penguins did:

17 Straight wins. 18th game (last of season) was a tie - then season ended
Mario Lemieux in those 18 games scored 29 goals (yes, 29 goals, not points) and 54 points. For those wondering - this would be a pace over 82 games of 132 goals and 246 points.

This is probably my favorite regular season ever. It helps that I followed this live - I'm too young to have watched Gretzky's peak, same with Orr's.

So for this matchup - definitely Lemieux. We'll see how he matches up to some of the best full seasons of Gretzky & Orr.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Definitely Mario Lemieux.

....in terms of being most impressive or best level of play...

That isn't the question for this poll.

It's "better season."

 

[JackSlater]

I'll vote for Lemieux but just barely. Missing a quarter of the season is a big negative.

 

[Albatros]

The Penguins only won 11 of their 24 games without Lemieux, yet with him lapped the field on their way to the Presidents' Trophy. That being the case, I don't really hold missing a bunch of games against him.

 

[WalterLundy]

Definitely Mario Lemieux.

I think it might be hard for Mario Lemieux and his 60 games to contend with full seasons of Orr and Gretzky to win this tournament - but in terms of being most impressive or best level of play, it's definitely up there and would be in contention for #1.

Look at this statline after his return from chemo:

Game 1 upon return - March 2nd - 1 goal, 1 assist 2 points. Penguins lose game.
Game 2 upon return - March 5th - 0 points. Penguins lose again.

Hrmm....2 losses....0 points in 2nd game...should he have come back? Did he need more time? Is he back 100%?

Game 3 - 1 assist Penguins win
Game 4 - 4 points Penguins win
Game 5 - 1 point Penguins win
Game 6 - 6 points (4 goals) Penguins win
Game 7 - 5 points (4 goals), Penguins win
etc

I could keep going till the end of the year - but essentially, starting from game 3 of his return - this is what Lemieux & Penguins did:

17 Straight wins. 18th game (last of season) was a tie - then season ended
Mario Lemieux in those 18 games scored 29 goals (yes, 29 goals, not points) and 54 points. For those wondering - this would be a pace over 82 games of 132 goals and 246 points.

This is probably my favorite regular season ever. It helps that I followed this live - I'm too young to have watched Gretzky's peak, same with Orr's.

So for this matchup - definitely Lemieux. We'll see how he matches up to some of the best full seasons of Gretzky & Orr.

For best level of play it’s his second best behind 88-89. Got to see both years and 88-89 Lemieux was the best he ever was. He was better in even sample sizes (40 and 60 games) and against better Ross competition. Gretzky’s 84 is the best stretch of 60 games ever and he has four better stretches or level of play reached than either 89 or 93 Lemieux (82, 84, 85, 86).

Best stretches of games with at least 70% of games played (best level of play achieved):
Wayne Gretzky ‘83-‘84:
57 GP: 73 G, 98 A, 171 PTS (3.00 PPG)
Wayne Gretzky ‘84-‘85:
60 GP: 60 G, 107 A, 167 PTS (2.78 PPG)
Wayne Gretzky ‘81-‘82:
64 GP: 79 G, 97 A, 176 PTS (2.75 PPG)
Wayne Gretzky ‘85-‘86:
68 GP: 48 G, 139 A, 187 PTS (2.75 PPG)
Mario Lemieux ‘88-‘89:
62 GP: 65 G, 104 A, 169 PTS (2.73 PPG)
Mario Lemieux ‘92-‘93:
60 GP: 69 G, 91 A, 160 PTS (2.67 PPG)

I do agree though with how special it was. It’ll also hurt that it isn’t a full season against better full seasons of Gretzky (and possibly Orr).

 

[Video Nasty]

It's Lemieux. Yes, missing almost 30% of the season is a serious ding, but even I can't completely ignore the special cirumstances and how Pittsburgh was an average team without him, and a team that should have three-peated or at least lost their back to back Cups in the Finals itself.

45-10-5 record, 292 GF (4.87 GPG), 195 GA (3.25 GAA) with him on the ice.
11-11-2 record, 75 GF (3.13 GPG), 73 GA (3.04 GAA) without him on the ice.

Valiant effort for the Penguins to tread water while he was out, but Lemieux's presence made such an overwhelming difference en route to the President's trophy.

 

[Duffy13]

I find it very difficult to give too much weight to the late 60's to mid 70's when they more than doubled the size of the league with teams that would have a hard time competing in the AHL due to the league protecting the Original 6 teams with extremely prohibitive expansion draft rules.