Hart Trophy Tournament (1969-00) Round 1: 1977 Lafleur vs 1980 Gretzky

[blundluntman]

Note: Originally, the tourney was going to be 77-00, but I've decided to make it 69-00 (credit to @Hockey Outsider). As a result, this is officially the 8th matchup of the tourney despite being posted first.

MATCHUP #8 (Round 1): Guy Lafleur (1977) vs Wayne Gretzky (1980)

Guy Lafleur (1976-77)
80 GP 56 G 80 A 136 Points | 1st in Scoring, 1st in Assists, 2nd in Goals

Wayne Gretzky (1979-80):
79 GP 51 G 86 A 137 Points | 1st in Scoring, 1st in Assists, T-3 in Goals

Round 1 Matchups:
69 Esposito vs 99 Jagr
70 Orr vs 72 Orr
71 Orr vs 00 Pronger
73 Clarke vs 82 Gretzky
74 Esposito vs 91 Hull
75 Clarke vs 98 Hasek
76 Clarke vs 90 Messier
77 Lafleur vs 80 Gretzky
78 Lafleur vs 93 Lemieux
79 Trottier vs 94 Fedorov
81 Gretzky vs 87 Gretzky
83 Gretzky vs 86 Gretzky
84 Gretzky vs 85 Gretzky
88 Lemieux vs 89 Gretzky
92 Messier vs 95 Lindros
96 Lemieux vs 97 Hasek

Click to read more...

 

[Regal]

I’m thinking Lafleur was better. As good as Gretzky was it’s hard to believe at at 18/19 he was better than Lafleur, who had one of the best peaks of all time, at 25. In terms of scoring relative to the league and the other top scores, Lafleur was better as well. At the same time he was on one of the best teams of all time in a league with little parity while the Oilers were bad and Gretz didn’t have much to work with. It’s possible Gretzky would have done much better in the same situation, though he probably would have also played a bit less. Lafleur was also still in his prime in 79-80 and Gretzky beat him, so maybe the same would have happened in 76-77.

I would probably vote Gretzky based on who is more valuable given their disparate team situations, but I’m interested to hear others on who was better.

Also, slight correction, Gretzky was tied for 5th in goals.

 

[BlueSeal]

I said Guy but it's easily arguable and so close on the line, this one might just be even money.

 

[Video Nasty]

Considering Gretzky was only 19 and immediately came in and led the league in assists, points, and PPG, and only lost the scoring race due to the goals tie-breaker, it has to be him.

Also, Gretzky factored in on 45.6% of his team’s goals. Lafleur was 34.1%. I think Montreal had a slightly deeper team than the incoming Oilers.

 

[blundluntman]

I’m thinking Lafleur was better. As good as Gretzky was it’s hard to believe at at 18/19 he was better than Lafleur, who had one of the best peaks of all time, at 25. In terms of scoring relative to the league and the other top scores, Lafleur was better as well. At the same time he was on one of the best teams of all time in a league with little parity while the Oilers were bad and Gretz didn’t have much to work with. It’s possible Gretzky would have done much better in the same situation, though he probably would have also played a bit less. Lafleur was also still in his prime in 79-80 and Gretzky beat him, so maybe the same would have happened in 76-77.

I would probably vote Gretzky based on who is more valuable given their disparate team situations, but I’m interested to hear others on who was better.

Also, slight correction, Gretzky was tied for 5th in goals.

Technically, yes. But for this tourney, it makes more sense to focus on the raw total of goals IMO. Someone skimming over things may assume he was further behind if they don't notice tie-breakers played a role.

 

[bobholly39]

Considering Gretzky was only 19 and immediately came in and led the league in assists, points, and PPG, and only lost the scoring race due to the goals tie-breaker, it has to be him.

Also, Gretzky factored in on 45.6% of his team’s goals. Lafleur was 34.1%. I think Montreal had a slightly deeper team than the incoming Oilers.

Are we doing best hart season, or most impressive hart season?

It's more impressive that Gretzky did this at 19 years old. Was the season outright better? That's a lot closer.

 

[blundluntman]

Are we doing best hart season, or most impressive hart season?

It's more impressive that Gretzky did this at 19 years old. Was the season outright better? That's a lot closer.

The tourney is for the best Hart Season

 

[Video Nasty]

Are we doing best hart season, or most impressive hart season?

It's more impressive that Gretzky did this at 19 years old. Was the season outright better? That's a lot closer.

It’s more impressive and it’s better.

Factored in on more of his team’s goals. Wasn’t playing on a team stuffed to the gills with depth, had eight other Hall of Famers and a Hall of Fame coach. Cleared his closest teammate by 43 points, cleared his next closest teammate by 71 points. Was +14 on a team that was outscored by 21 goals. Wasn’t +89 on a team that outscored their opponents by +216.

Gretzky did more with much less, and at a much younger age.

 

[wetcoast]

Considering Gretzky was only 19 and immediately came in and led the league in assists, points, and PPG, and only lost the scoring race due to the goals tie-breaker, it has to be him.

Also, Gretzky factored in on 45.6% of his team’s goals. Lafleur was 34.1%. I think Montreal had a slightly deeper team than the incoming Oilers.

At first I thought it is kind of close because of the age but then I realized that was the year that Gretzky was carrying around the corpse of BJ Macdonald to a 80-64-48-92 line and Lafleur was still in his peak, albeit his last peak season at age 28 but this is Wayne that's why he is the Great One.

 

[Albatros]

Lafleur, definitely the more wholesome season overall despite similar point totals.

 

[JackSlater]

I'd lean Lafleur. Lafleur had better players to play with, but he also played on a deep and disciplined team where sometimes other guys got minutes too and the team didn't play an all out offensive style. Not to say that Laflur himself did much defensively, but I'm confident that Gretzky had more freedom to do whatever he wanted. Dionne was the main scoring competition for both players, and Gretzky tied him while Lafleur outscored him by 11%. Gretzky scored one more point than Lafleur did, but scoring was ~6%, so the raw totals are close.

I could see going with Gretzky, good arguments for both.