Hall of Fame debate: Kimmo Timonen

[Bourque]

Kimmo Timonen ended his career perfectly, by raising the Stanley Cup as he skated into the sunset. It was a fitting finish for one of the classiest players in the league, but was it enough to vault him into the Hall of Fame? Let's discuss.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/39113/hall-of-fame-debate-kimmo-timonen

Is Kimmo Timonen HHoF worthy? There's one article, but I really need your opinions.

 

[Plural]

That's an easy no. He was a good #1 D but he was never considered as the best player on his position.

He once finished 5th for the Norris trophy in voting and never cracked top-10 again.

Hall of very good and not even the best in that hall.

 

[Plural]

Also, that is not Kimmo Timonen in that picture. It's Desjardins I guess. ESPN

 

[feffan]

Funny enough, I tought of him as equal to his countryman Teppo Numminen before reading the article. An great defender, but nowhere near the peak needed for HHOF for me. Even if both are underrated in my opinion. "Quiet" players that fly under the radar. Both peaked about top 5 and where probably top 10-20 for an long period of their career. I put them in the same tier as the likes of Eric Desjardins, Brent Seabrook, Gary Suter, Calle Johansson and probably Ulf Samuelsson. And Desjardins is at the top of those mentioned at first glance and tought. And he ain´t HHOF material for me.

The best argument I can see is that he can be argumented to be and defenceman version of an Mike Gartner. An top 5-20 in his position for an long time. And Gartners in... but I´m not sure I agree with that as well... And that would open up HHOF for ALOT of defencemen...

Before Timmonen can get in, an player like Zubov must get in.

Also, that is not Kimmo Timonen in that picture. It's Desjardins I guess. ESPN

Haha! Didn´t notice that at first! Good to have an finn around

 

[Appleyard]

Unfortunately not.

Though I do think if he had been an earlier draft pick, more acclaimed earlier on, on a bigger, more successful franchise than Nashville when at his best or a few inches taller (I honestly think his defensive acumen was at times overlooked due to simply being small) he would have had far more Norris consideration.

The fact that from 2001-02 to 2005-06 he had no Norris votes in any year is pretty indicative of that... never less than 20th amongst Dmen in points and PPG in that time, very good on D (better than ~half or more of the Dmen ahead of him in points in that time defensively) yet no votes.

Pretty awesome career though:

4th in points from Dmen over his 16 year career (after Lidstrom, Gonchar and Boyle).

2nd most games played of any Dman over his 16 year career (after Chara).

 

[DisgruntledGoat*]

I liked him as a player but this is probably the easiest, 'no' I've ever come across in a HHOF debate.

There's probably at least five of his contemporaries that deserve it more.

 

[sr edler]

Timonen was a very good player in his prime, but he was never considered elite.

Also played very limited minutes with the Hawks in 14–15, both in the regular season and in the playoffs, and didn't record a point with the team, so the Cup argument is a bit flawed in this case. It wasn't like he carried a heavy or difficult load.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Easy "no". Highly respected guy, but there's a long line of those ahead of him already.

 

[TOGuy14]

Resounding NO to him ever making the HHOF

Had a good career but never finished higher than 5th in Norris voting and only received any kind of consideration in 4 of his 16 seasons.

 

[Plural]

Timonen was a very good player in his prime, but he was never considered elite.

Also played very limited minutes with the Hawks in 14–15, both in the regular season and in the playoffs, and didn't record a point with the team, so the Cup argument is a bit flawed in this case. It wasn't like he carried a heavy or difficult load.

Yeah, the cup represents a "farewell" gift for Timonen. I was really happy for him that he got to lift it and I'm sure he feels that he worked hard enough for it. 1108 regular season and 105 playoff games worth of work. But as of an argument for his greatness? No, the cup does nothing to lift his career.

 

[BenchBrawl]

**** no

 

[WarriorOfGandhi]

That's an easy no. He was a good #1 D but he was never considered as the best player on his position.

He once finished 5th for the Norris trophy in voting and never cracked top-10 again.

Hall of very good and not even the best in that hall.

I'm not even sure he should make the Hall of Very Good. Guys on the outside looking in like Housley, Zubov, Suter, Gonchar, Ozolinsh, etc are a tier above Timonen. More like the Hall of Just Good with Hatcher, Foote, Hamerlik, Kaberle.

 

[Plural]

I'm not even sure he should make the Hall of Very Good. Guys on the outside looking in like Housley, Zubov, Suter, Gonchar, Ozolinsh, etc are a tier above Timonen. More like the Hall of Just Good with Hatcher, Foote, Hamerlik, Kaberle.

Yeah, probably right.

Crazy to think that for a short period he was the highest paid D in the league.

BTW, isn't Housley in?

 

[tfong]

Very good dman but not real defining quality I think that makes him HHOF worthy.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Good player and all but no.

 

[VanIslander]

The first half of his career was played in Nashville and I often touted him back then as the most underrated dman in the league. Then he goes to Philly and suddenly he became the cat's meow. That was really annoying, especially considering a few other small market dmen who I've thought were fantastic but fell under the radar (Vlasic most recently, receiving kuddos only after being chosen for Team Canada).

There is no position more misunderstood by the hype of big markets and the deception of stats than: Defenseman.

The fact that he was all-time great drafted this year 402nd overall as the 129th defenseman selected (the first 5th slot third pairing dman of all time - assuming all 4th dman, second pairings guys were selected first) fills me with joy.
That's about where he belongs: a 4/5 role all-time great!

357. ted1971 - Quebec Aces - Carol Vadnais, D
368. Johnny Engine & peskypenguin4 - NLDA Angry Turnips - Randy Carlyle, D
371. Nalyd Psycho - Boston Bandits - Jimmy Watson, D
378. Stoneberg & rmartin65 - Halifax Citadels - Gary Bergman, D
379. Iceman5 - Stockholm Full Throttle - Dave Burrows, D
382. Leaf Lander - Toronto Maple Leafs - Pat Egan, D
384. ResilientBeast - Los Angeles Sharks - Dallas Smith, D
388. Rob Scuderi - Pittsburgh Athletic Club - Lennart Svedberg, D
389. Billyshoe1721 - Philadelphia Flyers - Bobby Rowe, D
395. MadArcand - Les Renards d'Orléans - Bill Hajt, D
402. nik jr - Connecticut College Camels - Kimmo Timonen, D
403. King Forsberg - Orlando Solar Bears - Eduard Ivanov, D
404. BraveCanadian - Guelph Platers - Stefan Persson, D
405. jarek & Dreakmur - Montreal Victorias - Sandis Ozolinsh, D
408. SchultzSquared - Chatham Maroons - Taffy Abel, D
413. Cyborg Yzerman - Hartford Whalers - Paul Reinhart, D
419. Velociraptor - Kentucky Thoroughblades - Kevin Hatcher, D
420. Cyborg Yzerman - Hartford Whalers - Ken Morrow, D

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=104523433&postcount=3

But,... the HHOF? Er,... look at the guys drafted around him. Are they in the hall of fame?

 

[Theokritos]

Talking of highly respected Finnish players who aren't in the Hall (and will never be, in all likeliness): I can think of one from the same generation (two years older than Timonen) I'd have an easier time making an argument for than Timonen.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

^ koivu?

greatest finnish player outside the HHOF: tikkanen? or if we are talking peak, kiprusoff? or for longevity, numminen?

EDIT: oh wait, you mean lehtinen right?

 

[tony d]

No, good defenseman during his career but not good enough for the hall.

 

[Ishdul]

Absolutely not.

I'm not even sure he should make the Hall of Very Good. Guys on the outside looking in like Housley, Zubov, Suter, Gonchar, Ozolinsh, etc are a tier above Timonen. More like the Hall of Just Good with Hatcher, Foote, Hamerlik, Kaberle.

It's going to take a while for us to get used to a Hockey Hall of Fame with Phil Housley.

 

[Eisen]

Absolutely not.


It's going to take a while for us to get used to a Hockey Hall of Fame with Phil Housley.

Complete head scratcher.

To the OP. I don't see how he could end up in the Hall. They are already very reluctant to give defensemen a spot. And while being very good, Timonen was never really a top5 defender in any year of his career (at least of top of my head)

 

[Sens Rule]

^ koivu?

greatest finnish player outside the HHOF: tikkanen? or if we are talking peak, kiprusoff? or for longevity, numminen?

EDIT: oh wait, you mean lehtinen right?

The more I think about it the more I support Tikkanen in the Hall. Just because he was so unique. He could be the best pest of all time... And he was more beloved then hates unlike other great pests. All things considered I would induct him.

That's an aside though... Timonen was a great player. Long and distinguished career. He isn't a HHOFer though. Doesn't at all diminish his greatness. Awesome way to end his career... Finally lifting the Cup after horrible dangerous injuries at the end... His career and long term health in peril he comes back and wins a Cup!

And he left it all on the table. He is done. He gets to go out on top with no regrets, no lingering doubts. That's the way to finish a career!

Hopefully he has a long and healthy life to enjoy all the money and success he has had.

Even with no Hall of Fame... He is gonna be remembered as a Great Finn. A Great Flyer. A storybook ending to his career with an epic comeback. I think most hockey fans of the last 20 years or so have a memory of Timonen as a pretty great Defenceman who played hard and was pretty decent at all aspects of the game. Nice legacy.

 

[The Pale King]

A poll this lopsided makes him look worse than he was, but it's a no for me as well.

This isn't a Bourque situation where he went out as a really effective player for his team. He looked to be getting very sheltered minutes and didn't look very much like his pre-injury self at all these playoffs. Hopefully that's not the Timonen casual hockey fans remember.

Just a great player, no shame there. The small-market early career factor almost certainly hurt his Norris voting record, but still, I don't think that would have been enough to put him in. If Philly wins in '10, his resume would be a bit more eye popping, but Zubov for one is miles ahead of him in my books.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

There is no debate. No.

 

[seventieslord]

No, not even close.